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HOUSE.[ AGENDA CITY PLANNING COMMISSION City Hall - Council Chambers 6131 Taylorsville Road June 13, 2023 6:00 P.M. ]
WE'LL CALL THE, UH, MEETING THE CITY OF HUBER HEIGHTS PLANNING COMMISSION ORDER.SECRETARY, YOU PLEASE CALL THE ROLL.
I HAVE NO OPENING MARK REMARKS AS ANYONE ELSE ON THE DIOCESE.
AND HEARING NONE, THIS IS THE, UH, CORRECT TIME FOR ANYONE TO SPEAK ON ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA OF THIS EVENING.
AND HEARING NO RESPONSE, WE'LL MOVE ON TO SWEARING THE WITNESSES.
I ANNOUNCE IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE RULES OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
ANYONE WHO MAY WISH TO SPEAK OR GIVE TESTIMONY REGARDING THE ITEMS ON THE AGENDA THIS EVENING NEEDS TO BE SWORN IN.
I ASK EVERYONE TO STAND, RAISE THEIR RIGHT HAND AND RESPOND.
TO THE FOLLOWING OATH,
AS HE STANDS UP HERE IN FRONT OF THE GROUP, COIN
FIRST ITEM, UH, WE HAVE NO PENDING BUSINESS.
UH, FIRST ITEM UNDER NEW BUSINESS IS A TEXT AMENDMENT.
THE APPLICANT IS THE CITY OF HUBER HEIGHTS, IS REQUESTING APPROVAL OF A TEXT AMENDMENT, UH, PERTAINING TO CHAPTER 1181 DASH 20, BUILDING MATERIALS FOR DWELLINGS AND OTHER MINOR REVISIONS TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING ORDINANCE AS PREVIOUSLY APPROVED BY THE ORDINANCE REVIEW COMMISSION.
SO WE HAVE REALLY KIND OF TWO SETS OF TEXT AMENDMENTS UNDER THIS CASE.
UM, JUST A, A REMINDER OF WHY WE DO TEXT AMENDMENTS.
ONE IS TO UPDATE THE CODE FOR RECENT UPDATES AND REGULATION AS LAWS, REDUCE THE INCONSISTENCIES OR REGULATORY BURDEN, ALIGN WITH CHANGING, USES TECHNOLOGY AND BEST PRACTICES, AND THEN ALSO IMPLEMENT POLICY DIRECTION FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND OR CITY COUNCIL.
SO THE FIRST, UH, TEXT AMENDMENT DEALS WITH BUILDING MATERIALS FOR DWELLINGS.
UM, THIS PROPOSED AMENDMENT WAS INITIATED ORIGINALLY TO CLARIFY THAT HARDY LAP SIDING DOES NOT COUNT TOWARDS AS A MASONRY PRODUCT.
UM, I'M TAKING IT A LITTLE BIT FURTHER TO TRY TO, UH, ALIGN THE CODE WITH RECENT PLANNING, UH, COMMISSION AND COUNCIL.
SO OUR CURRENT MASONRY REQUIREMENTS FOR, UH, DWELLINGS DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU LIVE, AND THERE IS A DEEP DIVIDE BETWEEN THE TYPES OF PROPERTIES.
SO IF YOU ARE BUILDING IN A STRAIGHT ZONE AREA, AGRICULTURE, R ONE, R TWO, R THREE, UM, IT IS A HUNDRED PERCENT MASONRY FOR SINGLE STORY BUILDINGS.
UH, AND FOR MULTI-FAMILY STRUCTURES OR TWO STORY STRUCTURES, OR SORRY, MULTI-STORY STRUCTURES, IT'S, UH, A HUNDRED PERCENT OF THE FIRST FLOOR, THE ENTIRE FIRST FLOOR WRAP, UH, UNDER THE P U D ZONING, WHICH REALLY ANY, EVERYTHING THAT IS GREATER THAN FIVE ACRES IS REQUIRED TO COME IN AS A P U D.
UH, IT IS THE DISCRETION OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
AND THEN ULTIMATELY, CITY COUNCIL, UM, WE HAVE BEEN ESSENTIALLY FOR, UH, AS FAR AS WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING CONSISTENTLY, CONSISTENTLY, UM, MOST OF THE, WITHIN THE PUDS THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED IN THE LAST FOUR YEARS OR SO IS ABOUT 25% OF, UH, THE FRONT FACADE FOR SINGLE FAMILY HOMES.
FOR MULTI-FAMILY, IT DEPENDS ON, UH, WHERE, WHERE IT IS AND HOW THE BUILDING LOOKS, BUT IT'S BETWEEN 15 AND 20%.
UH, AS FAR AS TRUE MASONRY, I'M CONSIDERING THAT BRICK AND STONE.
SO ON THE PROPOSED STANDARDS, WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING IS DEFINING MASONRY AS FULL DEPTH OR CULT CULTURED BRICK AND STONE.
UH, SO I THINK THE INTENT FOR MASONRY IS IT LOOK LIKE BRICK OR STONE.
UH, SO WE DON'T CARE IF IT IS ACTUAL BRICK, ACTUAL STONE OR CULTURED BRICK OR CULTURED STONE.
UH, IT JUST, IT LOOKS LIKE LOOK LIKE A DUCK.
UH, OTHER MATERIALS CAN BE USED ON NON MASONRY WALL SURFACES.
WE ALSO SET A STANDARD FOR THICKNESS OF VINYL.
UM, AND THAT'S AT 0.44 MILLIMETERS, WHICH IS KIND OF THE PREMIUM VINYL, UM, FOR BUILDERS OR, UH, INSULATED VINYL, UH, DOES TWO PURPOSES.
ONE, IT REDUCES THE SAG OVER TIME.
ALSO, UH, HOLDS UP BETTER TO WIND.
UM, INSULATED VINYL SIDING ACTUALLY PROVIDES AN R VALUE, UH, OVER THE, OVER THE, THE BOARD AS WELL.
SO THE PROPOSED COVERAGE STANDARDS THAT, THAT WE ARE PROPOSING IS IN STRAIGHT ZONED AREAS.
UM, 100% MASON AREA ON THE FIRST FLOOR FACADE.
UH, AND THEN IN P U D AREAS FOR ONE IN TWO FAMILY STRUCTURES, UH, IT WOULD BE 50% AGGREGATED OVER THE DEVELOPMENT.
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UM, SO THIS IS SIMILAR TO THE ORIGINAL APPROVAL OF CARRIAGE TRAILS, WHICH WAS 50% OF THE STRUCTURES THROUGHOUT THE DEVELOPMENT WOULD HAVE A MINIMUM OF 25%.WHAT THIS WOULD BE WOULD BE THE 50% OF THE AGGREGATE FRONT FACADE WOULD BE MASONRY.
DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE OTHER 50% CAN BE ALL VINYL? CORRECT.
AND SO WHEN CARRIAGE TRAIL WAS, WAS APPROVED, THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT A DOWNTURN IN ECONOMY AND CHANGES OF MATERIAL, UH, COST.
AND SO THEY WANTED THE ABILITY TO HAVE A FEW FULL VINYLS OR SOME OTHER MATERIAL BESIDES JUST BRICK OR STONE.
UH, SO EVERYTHING HAS COME IN AT A MINIMUM OF 20 PER 25% OF THE FRONT FACADE.
UM, BUT THAT IS, THIS PROVIDES A LITTLE BIT MORE FLEXIBILITY.
I'M NOT WED TO THIS, UH, THIS IS JUST WHAT I'M THROWING OUT THERE, THERE FOR CONSIDERATION.
UH, AND THEN ON MULTI-FAMILY OR MIXED USE, UH, BUILDINGS, UH, IT WOULD BE 24 20% OF THE AGGREGATE WALL SURFACE.
AND SO THAT'S 20% OF THE, OF ALL SIDES OF THE BUILDING, UM, AGGREGATED OVER THE DEVELOPMENT.
AND THE IDEA IS THAT WHEN PLANNING COMMISSION IS CONSIDERING THE, UH, ESTABLISHING THE REQUIREMENTS, SINCE YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO, TO TO CHOOSE ANY, UH, UH, COVERAGE AMOUNT THAT YOU TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THE MIX OF THE BUILDING FACADES AND MATERIAL USAGE TO DISCOURAGE MO UH, MONOTONOUS REPETITION, UH, AND THEN ALSO CONSIDER HIGHER PERCENTAGES OF FULL DEATH BRICK OR CULTURED BRICK AND STONE, UH, ALONG FRONTAGES OF MAJOR PUBLIC STREETS.
UH, THIS IS REALLY MORE FOR THE, THE, UM, MULTI-FAMILY DEVELOPMENTS OR MIXED USE DEVELOPMENTS.
CONSIDER, YOU KNOW, THINKING ABOUT WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING ALONG EXECUTIVE BOULEVARD, MOST OF THE DEVELOPMENT DEVELOPERS ARE PUT A HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF BRICKER STONE ALONG EXECUTIVE AND THEN HAVE STEPPED BACK THE PERCENTAGES, THE, THE FURTHER BACK AWAY FROM THE MAJOR PUBLIC STREET YOU GET TO.
SO I AM, UH, OPENING UP FOR QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS, THOUGHTS? ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? SO, AARON, MR. AS WE TALK ABOUT LIKE THE, OVER THE AGGREGATE THROUGHOUT THE DEVELOPMENTS, ALRIGHT.
WHEN WE HAVE A BID ONE, LIKE CARRIAGE TRAILS, DON'T WE RUN INTO WHERE IT BEING ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO KEEP UP WITH THAT CALCULATION? SO DO WE NEED TO PUT SOMETHING IN OF IT AND LIKE AGGREGATE OVER AT, AT EACH SUBMITTAL OR OVER X NUMBER OF HOUSES? UM, BECAUSE FOR YOU TO COME IN NOW AND HAVE TO DO A CALCULATION ON THE FINAL PHASE OR TWO AND A CARRIAGE TRAILS DEVELOPMENT IS, IS UNREALISTIC OF AN ASK? I WOULD THINK SO.
TYPICALLY SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENS WITH CAR'S, TRAILS, OR EVEN OTHER DEVELOPMENTS WHERE YOU REQUIRE, YOU DON'T RE, YOU REQUIRE DIFFERENT FACADES ACROSS FROM EACH OTHER.
SO YOU DON'T GET THE SAME HOUSE FOUR TYPES IN A ROW.
THE DEVELOPER USUALLY TRACKS THAT AND THEN STAFF BASICALLY DOUBLE CHECKS THEIR WORK.
UM, SO IF WE WERE TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WE WOULD REQUIRE THE DEVELOPER AT EACH PHASE KIND OF SHOW THE, THE, UM, SHOW WHAT THEY INTEND.
UM, THE OTHER OPTION IS JUST TO SET A MINIMUM, LIKE 25% AND, AND, AND BE DONE WITH IT.
I THINK ZONING INSPECTION WOULD PREFER A MINIMUM THRESHOLD AND EVERYTHING IS CONSISTENT.
UM, WHAT I WAS PROPOSING IS JUST SOMETHING THAT GIVES, UH, IS GIVES YOU ALWAYS HAVE THE FLEXIBILITY TO, TO GO ABOVE OR BELOW.
UM, SO I, I THINK THIS PROBABLY REQUIRES A LITTLE BIT MORE ATTENTION TO DETAIL.
BUT IF IT'S SET OUT IN THE STANDARDS AND IN THEN SET OUT IN EACH SECTION, UM, THAT THIS IS NOT UNUSUAL TO WHERE DEVELOPERS ARE REQUIRED TO SHOW THAT LOT, LOT TWO, LOT SIX, LOT EIGHT CAN HAVE THIS ELEVATION.
LOT THREE, LOT FIVE, LOT SEVEN CAN HAVE THIS ELEVATION AND THIS COLOR PALETTE, THAT KIND OF THING.
IS, IS THE WORDING THAT WE HAVE CLEAR THAT YOU SAY 50% AGGREGATE OVER THE DEVELOPMENT? ARE THEY CLEAR THAT THE, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE DEVELOPMENT, YOU'RE ONLY TALKING ABOUT THAT ONE PHASE THAT IS BEFORE YOU AT THE TIME? OR THE DEVELOPMENT TO ME IS THE WHOLE CARRIAGE TRAIL.
SO CARRIAGE TRAIL, IT WAS THE ENTIRE CARRIAGE TRAIL DEVELOPMENT.
AND THEN AS EACH SECTION HAS COME IN FOR THE DETAILED, IT'S BEEN REINFORCED.
UM, BUT THAT IS THE ENTIRE, AS FAR AS CARRIAGE TRAIL, WHICH IS OUR LARGEST SUBDIVISION THAT'S BEING MASTERED, PLANNED AND BUILT, UM, IN EVERY SECTION, THEY'VE BASICALLY COPIED AND PASTED THE COVENANTS, THE RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS.
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ASKED FOR A DIFFERENT, UM, PERCENTAGE.BUT IS THAT OUR INTENT WITH THIS NEW ONE SINCE, UH, YOU, YOU, YOU GAVE THE EXAMPLE THAT WE, THE ONES IN THE FRONT OF A CERTAIN PLACE WOULD BE MORE BRICK THAN THE ONES IN THE BACK, BUT THE, THE OTHER OTHER PHASES HAVEN'T EVEN COME BEFORE US YET.
SO IS IT CLEAR TO THE DEVELOPER THAT THAT WHAT THE INTENT IS? AND IT'S BECAUSE IT'S NOT CLEAR TO ME.
I DON'T, I'M NOT SURE IF THE INTENT IS FOR THAT PARTICULAR PHASE OR FOR THE ENTIRE DEVELOPMENT, EVEN THOUGH IT MIGHT BE 10 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD BEFORE YOU HAVE PHASE TWO.
SO IN MY MIND, IT'S FOR THE ENTIRE DEVELOPMENT AND FOR A DEVELOPED A DEVELOPER WHERE WE HAVE, WHERE WE HAVE THE DEVELOPMENT THOUGHT OUT, FOR LACK OF BETTER WORDS, ARE FAIRLY WELL, UH, PUT TOGETHER.
THESE, THESE, UH, REQUIREMENTS CAN BE SET AT THE BASIC DEVELOPMENT PLAN PROCESS, WHICH THEN WOULD COVER THE ENTIRE DEVELOPMENT.
AND AT EACH DETAILED SECTION, IF A VARIATION NEEDED TO OCCUR, WE COULD DO IT.
THEN THERE ARE SOME WHERE, THINK OF, UH, RECENT EXAMPLE, UM, RHM, WE SET JUST THE DENSITY.
WE SET JUST THE UM, UH, TRAFFIC LAYOUT.
AND DURING THE DETAILED DEVELOPMENT PHASE, WE'RE GOING TO NEED TO SET THE, THE BRICK PERCENTAGES AND THE MASONRY PERCENTAGES, CUZ THAT, THAT WASN'T THOUGHT OUT AT THAT POINT IN TIME.
WELL, BECAUSE WHAT I'M THINKING IS, IF IT'S FOR THE ENTIRE DEVELOPMENT AND YOU HAVE PHASE ONE AND NO IDEA WHEN PHASE TWO IS GONNA BE DONE, THAT THEY COULD SAY, OKAY, IT DOESN'T MEET THAT REQUIREMENT, BUT THE WHOLE, WHEN WE GET OVER TO THIS ONE, THEN WE'LL MAKE UP AND, AND MAKE IT WORK.
SO THAT IS THE RISK, RIGHT? OR VICE VERSA.
I MEAN, WE WITH CARRIAGE TRAILS, WE KNOW THE OAKS AND LEXINGTON PLACE OAKS IS A PRETTY GOOD DEVELOPMENT.
LEXINGTON PLACE HAD THE BIG PAUSE MM-HMM.
SO YOU COULD COME IN ONE SECTION AT LEXINGTON PLACE TWO YEARS LATER, COME IN AND SAY, WELL, WE'RE GONNA MEET THE REQUIREMENT AND EVERY HOUSE WE BUILT AT THE ENTIRE BACK END CAN BE A HUNDRED PERCENT VINYL.
AND THE MATH STILL WORKS EVEN THOUGH THE LAST HOUSES ARE LESS EXPENSIVE MATERIALS, WHICH COULD POTENTIALLY IMPACT THE HOUSES THAT WERE JUST BUILT THREE MONTHS PRIOR, SHOULDN'T BUT COULD, DEPENDING ON WHEN.
AND I MEAN, RIGHT NOW WE'RE IN A SPIKE IN MATERIALS COST.
THAT'S NOT GOING TO MAINTAIN THAT, I DON'T THINK.
BUT SO I GUESS HOW DO WE, WE, WE UNDERSTAND THE INTENT, RIGHT? I MEAN, THE INTENT IS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T HAVE PEOPLE SLAPPING UP STUFF AS CHEAP AS THEY CAN AND SLIDING IT THROUGH.
SO HOW DO WE GET THE INTENT CONVEYED? I GUESS WITHOUT, YEAH, WE KNOW WHAT THE INTENT IS, BUT WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THE DEVELOPER KNOWS WHAT THE INTENT IS AND THAT THEY CAN'T DO THAT.
THEY CAN'T HAVE THEIR 50% THAT'S GONNA BE IN THE OTHER PHASES AND DO WHAT THEY WANT TO HERE.
AND IT ALL AVERAGES OUT TO WHAT WE HAVE ON THE BOOKS.
AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WE TAKE EACH DEVELOPMENT KIND OF ON ITS OWN, BASED ON LOCATION AND, AND, AND NATURAL FEATURES AND PRICE POINTS, ET CETERA.
UH, IN MY MIND I THINK WE SET THAT, WE SET THAT AS BEST WE CAN AT THE, AT THE BASIC DEVELOPMENT PLAN LEVEL, AND THEN IT'S UP TO BOTH STAFF AND PLANNING COMMISSION, UH, TO REINFORCE THAT AT EACH PARTICULAR SECTION OR PHASE.
UM, I, AS FAR AS THE P D STANDARDS, THIS IN MY MIND IS JUST, IS SETTING THE EXPECTATION AND THEN THE ACTUAL LANGUAGE GETS, UM, CODIFIED IN THE RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS.
AND WE CAN BE MORE DETAILED THAN AT THAT POINT IN TIME, DEPENDING ON WHERE IT IS, PRICE POINTS, CURRENT MARKET CONDITIONS, THAT KIND OF THING.
I THINK WE JUST HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT 10 YEARS FROM NOW, YOU MAY NOT BE HERE, WE WON'T ALL BE HERE.
AND SO TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S VERY CLEAR TO WHOEVER COMES IN TO SEE WHOEVER'S HERE KNOWS WHAT THE INTENT IS.
WELL, SO I'M NOT WED TO THIS LANGUAGE.
UM, SO IF YOU HAVE OTHER THOUGHTS, NOW I'M QUESTIONING AT THIS TIME, THAT'S ALL NOT, I'M NOT SUGGESTING CHANGING ANYTHING.
UM, I JUST MAKE ONE OF, BECAUSE I'M NOT A BUILDER AND I'M NOT ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT UNDERSTANDS THIS STUFF.
I JUST TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEN THEY COME IN, THEY DO UNDERSTAND, SO THAT WHENEVER IT DOES COME TO US THAT THERE'S NOT ANY CONTROVERSY.
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YEP.YEAH, I MEAN, I I THINK SAME AS JANE, I HAVE QUESTIONS, BUT I, I MEAN, I AGREE WITH THE INTENT, WE NEED TO SPELL IT OUT A LITTLE BIT AND MAKE IT MORE EQUAL BETWEEN A DEVELOPER AND A SINGLE HOME BUILDER, RIGHT? THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE DEFINITELY A DIFFERENT SET OF RULES MM-HMM.
UM, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THE INTENT OF THE DEVELOPER IS TO MAXIMIZE THEIR PROFITS.
THE INTENT FOR US AS RESIDENTS IS TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE QUALITY DEVELOPMENTS GOING ON.
SO HOW DO WE ALIGN THOSE TWO? AND WHAT I THINK OF, AND IT'S A DIFFERENT PIECE, BUT WHEN WE GO BACK TO THE OAKS ORIGINAL DEVELOPMENT, RIGHT? THERE WAS A REQUIREMENT FOR GREEN SPACE THAT IN THE BEGINNING IT WAS ALL LAID OUT AND THAT KEPT GETTING REWORKED BECAUSE THE INTENT WAS WE'RE STILL GONNA HAVE THAT GREEN SPACE.
AND THEY EVENTUALLY PUSHED IT ALL THE WAY TO THE CORNER, THEN SOLD THAT PROPERTY OFF, AND THAT CHUNK OF MATH NEVER GOT RECALCULATED INTO THE DEVELOPMENT.
I, I AGREE A HUNDRED PERCENT WITH THE INTENT.
IT'S HOW DO WE MAKE IT RULE, I GUESS.
I'D LIKE TO SEE A LITTLE YEAH.
BUT A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A, OF A BITE OUT OF IT VERSUS JUST THE, HERE AGAIN, WITH GOING BACK TO WHAT JAN SAID, IF 10 YEARS FROM NOW IT'S ALL NEW AND EVERYBODY'S LIKE, OH, I GUESS WE'RE STUCK WITH THAT, YOU KNOW, I GUESS YOU, THEY, I GUESS THEY CAN BUILD THE, THE BACK HALF OF THAT PLAT OUT OF VINYL.
SO I CAN GO BACK AND TAKE A STAB AT A LITTLE BIT MORE SPECIFICITY IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR.
WELL, I THINK THAT'S WHAT I AM.
I DO BELIEVE THESE TWO, MR. CASSY, YOU GOT YEAH, I, I AGREE.
I JUST, IS THERE A PARTICULAR REASON WHY THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE AGRICULTURE AND THE R ONE AND R TWO VERSUS THE PUDS? IS THAT THE WAY IT'S DONE ELSEWHERE? IS THAT, UM, SO, SO THAT WAS WHAT WAS ADOPTED IN, I'M GONNA GUESS 2007 OR EIGHT, SOMEWHERE AROUND IN THERE.
UM, NOT BECAUSE I THINK THERE WAS A CONCERN WITH PLASTIC HOUSES.
UH, AND CON AND LOSING THE, THE BRICK, UM, AND STONE BACK IN THE DAYS OF METAL SIDING.
UM, WHAT I THINK A HUNDRED PERCENT BRICK IS OVERKILL.
UH, WHICH IS WHY WE PAIRED IT BACK, OR WELL, I'M SUGGESTING IN THE STRAIGHT ZONED AREAS THAT WE PAIRED BACK TO JUST THE, UM, FIRST, UH, THE FRONT FACADE.
UM, YEAH, I, I GUESS MY UNDERLYING COMMENT WOULD BE I'D LIKE TO SEE MORE ALIGNMENT.
I THINK YOU'VE HEARD IT ECHOED HERE BETWEEN, UM, THE AGRICULTURE, THE R ONE AND THE R TWO AND THE PUDS.
IT'D BE NICE IF IT WAS A LITTLE MORE CONSISTENT BETWEEN THE TWO.
IT JUST SEEMS LIKE IT'S A PRETTY WIDE VARIANCE BETWEEN THE TWO RIGHT NOW.
AND IT IS, I DON'T KNOW IF IT, IF IT HELPS IN TERMS OF THE PUDS, BUT IT, AND I DON'T KNOW THIS FROM A DEVELOPER'S STANDPOINT, IF IT'S TOO MUCH OF AN ADMINISTRATIVE BURDEN FOR THEM THAT WE PUT THAT AS, YOU KNOW, A PER UNIT PERCENTAGE VERSUS AN AGGREGATED PERCENTAGE.
SO, UH, I KNOW ZONING WOULD PREFER THAT THE PERCENTAGE BE PER UNIT.
UM, WHAT I WAS ATTEMPTING IS TO PROVIDE SOME FLEXIBILITY AND DESIGN.
SO, BUT THEN THAT WOULD JUST HAVE TO COME TO PLANNING COMMISSION FOR APPROVAL IF IT WAS A VARIANCE.
UM, WE WOULD DO IT AT THE, AT THE BASIC OR THE DETAILED DEVELOPMENT, UH, PHASE.
YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A BRICK GABLE IN, UH, AND THAT'S WHAT IT'S GONNA LOOK LIKE.
AND IT'S GONNA BE A HOUSE THAT'S GONNA BE THE LAND OF, UM, BRICK ABLE ENDS.
I DON'T SEE R ONE AND R TWO UP THERE.
IS IT THE SAME AS P D? NO, IT'S BASICALLY THERE'S P U D AND THEN THERE'S EVERYTHING ELSE.
BUT R ONE AND R TWO ARE THE LARGER OH, NO, NO.
SO RIGHT NOW, YEAH, I JUST KIND OF, WHAT I DID IS, UM, FOR BREVITY, JUST KIND, BUT RIGHT NOW WE SAY THAT FOR ACTUALLY R FOR AGRICULTURE THROUGH R SIX, UM, IT IS A HUNDRED PERCENT MASONRY, UH, ON, FOR ONE, FOR SINGLE STORY BUILDINGS, ALL FOUR SIDES.
UH, AND THEN 100% OF THE FIRST FLOOR FOR, UH, TWO STORY AND ABOVE.
BUT REMEMBER WHEN THIS ZONING CODE WAS WRITTEN, IT'S WHEN WE BECAME A CITY AND WE DIDN'T HAVE MANY RESIDENTIAL.
OH, MR. HUBER WAS THE ONLY ONE BUILDING.
AND WE DIDN'T HAVE, UH, MATERIAL REQUIREMENTS INITIALLY.
AND THESE WERE PUT IN, I THINK WHEN I LOOKED AROUND
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EIGHT OR NINE, 2008 OR NINE, MR. JEFFRIES.AND SO AARON, AND THIS MIGHT BE OFF TRACK OF HAIR, BUT I KNOW YOU AND I HAVE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE, LIKE THE WHITE HOUSE.GOV WHITE PAPERS TALKING ABOUT THE PUSH FOR ZONING CHANGES FOR MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO DO WE, I GUESS, DO WE NEED TO CARVE OUT OR JUST KNOW THAT IT'D BE SPECIAL LANGUAGE? LET'S SAY SOMEBODY DID WANT TO COME IN AND HAD SOME ASSISTANCE OR GRANTS THAT WE'RE GONNA BUILD, KIND OF LIKE THE BUNGALOWS BACK HERE WHERE THE, YOU KNOW, SMALLER HOMES, SMALLER LOTS, YOU KNOW, NOT, NOT A LOT OF BRICK.
UM, DOES THIS HINDER ANYTHING LIKE THAT? OR WOULD THAT BE MORE OF A SPECIAL PROJECT ANYWAY THAT WHERE WE SHOULDN'T? YEAH, SO YOU COULD STILL DO THAT UNDER THIS AS THE, UH, AS, UM, THROUGH THE P U D AND THAT'S WHAT WE WOULD, WE WOULD REQUIRE THAT TO COME THROUGH.
UM, UNDER A P U D, YOU'VE GOT FULL AUTHORITY TO RIGHT.
NOT, NOT THAT IT'S GONNA BE THE BIG MAKEUP OF IT, BUT IF WE WENT TO KIND OF THE IDEA OF WHAT, LIKE WHAT IF IT'S ROW HOMES OR I MEAN, WHERE PEOPLE THINK IT'S HOUSES ON TOP OF EACH OTHER, NOT EVERYBODY NEEDS A BIG YARD OR EVEN THE CONTAINER STACKED DEPARTMENTS THAT WE'VE SEEN OUT THERE, YOU KNOW? YEAH.
AND IF THERE WAS A DEVELOPER WHO WANTED TO COME IN WITH A MORE CONTEMPORARY PRODUCT, YOU COULD CERTAINLY ACCOMMODATE THAT.
UM, SO I WILL TAKE A SECOND STAB AT THIS.
THE SECOND TEXT AMENDMENT IS, UM, AS A, AS A RESULT OF THE ORDINANCE REVIEW COMMISSION, LOOKING AT, UH, ALL OF THE, UH, ORDINANCES OVER A YEAR AGO.
UM, SO WE'RE A LITTLE SLOW TO GET THEM TO YOU.
95% OF ALL OF THE, UM, CHANGES IN HERE ARE EITHER SCRIBNER ERRORS, UH, ADDRESSING PRINCIP POLL VERSUS PRINCIP POLL, UH, SPELLING, UM, OR UPDATES TO THE REVISED CODE.
UM, THE ONLY, I DID ADD A LITTLE BIT IN SECTION, UH, 11, WHICH, UM, DEALT WITH OUTDOOR RETAIL DISPLAYS.
SO I'M, UH, SUGGESTING THAT WE ADD THAT WE ON UNDER FIVE AND SEVEN OF OUTDOOR RETAIL DISPLAYS.
UM, WE MEASURE THE HEIGHT OF STACKABLE OUTDOOR PRODUCTS SHALL NOT EXCEED FIVE FEET.
THERE ARE, UM, LADDERS THAT ARE OVER SIX FEET THAT ARE, THAT ARE SOLD OUT OUTSIDE.
UM, SO THAT WE'RE MAKING A DISTINCTION THERE.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BAG MULCH, SOIL SALT, UH, AND THEN THE OUTDOOR SALES SALES AREA SHALL NOT UTILIZE ANY OF THE REQUIRED PARKING SPACES.
THIS CAME OUT OF OUR LONG CONVERSATIONS WITH KROGER AND SHEETS AND, AND THE OTHER, UM, UH, CONVENIENCE STORES AND GROCERY STORES THAT DO OUTDOOR UH, SALES.
I JUST WANTED TO BE MORE SPECIFIC ABOUT WHAT IT IS THAT WE'RE REGULATING OTHERWISE.
UM, MOST OF THE, ALL THE OTHER CHANGES ARE, ARE REALLY CLERICAL IN NATURE.
MR. JEFFRIES, SORRY, I HAVE ONE QUESTION THAT'S ACTUALLY TIED TO THE LAST PART I FORGOT TO ASK.
SO WHEN IT COMES TO MATERIALS THAT ARE USED, I KNOW WHEN THEY BUILD THE HOUSE, THEY POUR THE DRIVEWAY, THEN THEY COME BACK AND DO THE SIDEWALK IN APRON, AND IT'S A DIFFERENT LEVEL OF CONCRETE BECAUSE IT'S THE CITY DEMANDING IT DONE A CERTAIN WAY.
IS THERE A REASON WE ALLOW 'EM TO GO SUBSTANDARD ON THE DRIVEWAY INSTEAD OF REQUIRING IT TO BE THE SAME? TO ME, THAT'S WHAT IT IS.
I LIVE IN ONE, I, THEY'RE ALL OVER MY NEIGHBORHOOD.
MY BUDDY LIVES IN VANDELLIA, HAS THE SAME T THING.
IT'S, THEY, THEY, THEY, THEY'RE CHEAPER AND DONE FIRST FOR A REASON.
IS THERE A REASON THAT WE DON'T MAKE OUR CODE, SAY CONCRETE, DRIVEWAY, APRON AND SIDEWALK ARE ALL EQUAL? UM, TYPICALLY BECAUSE THE PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE, WELL, SO HISTORICALLY SIDEWALKS DRIVE APRONS.
UM, WERE PUT IN BY THE, BY THE CITY, UM, OR FUNDED BY THE CITY THROUGH TIFF, ET CETERA.
UH, AND NOT THE DRIVEWAYS JUST RIGHT, JUST THE APRON AND THE SIDEWALKS, UM, OUT WITHIN THE PUBLIC RIGHT AWAY.
UH, AND HISTORICALLY, YOU KNOW, GOVERNMENT STANDARDS HAVE BEEN HIGHER THAN FOR CONSTRUCTION HAVE BEEN HIGHER THAN, SO WE COULD LOOK AT THAT.
I THINK THIS IS, YOU KNOW, THAT'S PROBABLY A CONSTRUCTION STANDARD THAT'S BEEN AROUND SINCE THE FORTIES.
JUST BECAUSE IT'S THE WAY WE'VE ALWAYS DONE IT ISN'T.
I KNOW LEXINGTON PLACE HAD A REALLY BIG ISSUE WITH IT AT ONE POINT WHEN THEY WERE STARTING TO RAMP BACK UP, UH, THEY HAD A LOT OF TROUBLE.
AND SO THAT'S WHEN I'M LOOKING AT BUILDING MATERIALS, I JUST WANTED TO PUT THAT OUT THERE.
I DON'T, WE DON'T, DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER.
WE DON'T REGULATE THE BUILDING CODE, UM, WHICH IS WHY, UM, BUT WE CAN CERTAINLY ADD IT AS FAR AS A STANDARD IN THE ZONING CODE.
BUT, UM, WE WOULD, WE WOULD NEVER SEE THAT COME ACROSS OUR DESK RIGHT NOW.
I JUST LOOK AT IT AS, AS HOMEOWNERS, YOU KNOW, IT YEAH.
WE'RE PAYING FOR THE DRIVEWAY ANYWAY, SO IF THEY CHARGE US MORE THAT WE'RE PAYING FOR IT, BUT I'D RATHER JUST SAY, OH, THAT SUCKS.
AND PAY FOR IT AT THE BEGINNING INSTEAD OF BUYING
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A NEW DRIVEWAY FIVE YEARS IN.OR IN ONE CASE IT WAS A YEAR IN, YOU KNOW, THAT I HEARD OF.
IN, IN HUBER YOU'RE STILL AS A, AS A PROPERTY OWNER RESPONSIBLE FOR THE, THE SIDEWALK MAINTENANCE AND REPAIR.
COMMUNITIES LIKE, UH, YELLOW SPRINGS, THEY TOOK ON THAT RESPONSIBILITY.
SO THE SIDEWALK IS THE CITY'S RESPONSIBILITY.
SO I MEAN, IT'S JUST HISTORIC, UH, UH, WHAT'S THE WORD I'M LOOKING FOR? UM, ATHLETICS? WELL, NO, NO, NO.
AI, IT, IT JUST, A MOMENTUM HAS JUST CARRIED US THAT WAY.
DO WE STILL ALLOW ASPHALT DRIVEWAYS? I BELIEVE SO.
THE ZONING CODE ONLY REQUIRES A SOLID SURFACE.
AND THAT MIGHT BE, I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT CHANGE CAN, BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE LONG DRIVES AND AG DISTRICTS AND STUFF.
OH, THE LONG, YEAH, YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT THAT.
BUT I'M JUST THINKING ABOUT THE SHORT ASPHALT DRIVEWAYS THAT OVER YEARS HAVE NOT BEEN MAINTAINED MM-HMM.
AND, AND SOME COMMUNITIES HAVE EXPERIMENTED WITH PERVIOUS PAVEMENT AND PERVIOUS, UH, ASPHALT.
AND AS LONG AS YOUR VEHICLES ARE LIGHT, IT WORKS PRETTY WELL.
BUT ANY TIME YOU'VE GOT A HEAVY VEHICLE, YEAH, I DIDN'T, I DIDN'T, IT BREAKS UP PRETTY THINK LONG ONES.
UM, SECTION 11 0 9 12, THE SPECIAL STREET TYPES, THIS CORBY WAY, IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S CONNECTING TO FAIRLY SIZABLE RESIDENTIAL AREAS, BUT THIS WOULD ALLOW IT TO BE GATED OFF AS A PRIVATE STREET.
IS IT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF CORBY WAY? ISN'T THAT THE BUNGALOWS? THIS ONE HERE, THE BUNGALOWS.
RIGHT, RIGHT HERE, UH, NORTH OF GARY SHERMAN PARK.
NO, NOT THE, IT'S THESE MOUNTS.
NO, THESE ARE ALL, THESE ARE ALL, THAT'S ALL PRIVATE.
BUT THE CHANGE HERE IS GOING TO ALLOW IT TO BE GATED.
ONLY AT BLACK SHEAR TO GOING INTO CORBY.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S RIGHT HERE, THERE'S A GATE, RIGHT? YEAH.
AND THEN, UH, THIS SECTION HERE, AFTER EXAMPLES AND INCLUDES, SHOULD WE PUT BUT NOT LIMITED TO, JUST TO REINFORCE THE FACT THAT THESE ARE NOT THE ONLY ITEMS WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT? OH, MULCH SOIL SALT.
RIGHT? I MEAN, WE DO SAY, OR SIMILAR PRODUCTS, BUT I'M JUST THINKING ABOUT SOMEBODY ELSE COMING ALONG 10 YEARS LATER TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE INTENT OF THIS.
SO EXAMPLES INCLUDE, BUT NOT LIMITED TO BAG MULCH, SOIL SALT.
I REALIZE IT'S KIND OF A BELT AND SUSPENDERS APPROACH, BUT YEAH, THEY HAVE TO COME FOR, UH, AN ANNUAL PERMIT AT ANYWAY.
I KNOW I'M PICKING ON YOU, BUT NO, THAT'S FINE.
I HAVE NO PRIDE OF AUTHORSHIP,
I KNOW THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO DO IT, BUT I'M STILL WONDERING ABOUT RURAL KING.
WELL, THAT'S THE FIRST THING I THOUGHT OF WHEN THIS CAME
THEY OWN, I DON'T THINK THEY, I'M CURIOUS IF THE CONCRETE BLOCKS ARE APPROVED.
AND THEN I GUESS MY LAST QUESTION IS ON THE VERY LAST SECTION, IT'S 1190 9.07 B, AND IT'S STRUCK OUT, IT'S ABOUT THE FLOOD INSURANCE STUDY GREEN COUNTY.
IS THAT ALREADY STRICKEN FROM THE ORDINANCE OR IS IT PART OF THIS ADJUSTMENT? IT WOULD BE AN ADJUSTMENT THAT WOULD STRIKE IT FROM THE ORDINANCE, BECAUSE WITHIN THE SEA OF HUBER HEIGHTS IN GREEN COUNTY, THERE ARE NO FLOOD AREAS.
I, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS CHANGES NECESSARY, BUT THAT'S WHAT THE COMMISSION, UH, REQUIRED.
AND SO IS THERE ANY OTHER, IS THERE, I ASSUME THERE'S AN A AND A C IN THIS SECTION AS WELL, SO ONLY B'S BEING STRICKEN.
IT WON'T BE LIKE AN EMPTY SECTION.
A IS, UH, I THINK ONE A IS EITHER MIAMI COUNTY AND B AND C IS MONTGOMERY COUNTY, BUT YEAH.
THANK YOU, MS. THOMAS, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ASK BRAD?
[00:30:06]
OKAY.IS THERE ANYONE ELSE WISHING TO SPEAK ON THIS ZONING CASE?
UM, SO ON THE DECISION ORDER, COULD WE, UH, JUST VOTE ON 2314 B? CORRECT? YES.
MOTION OVER, UH, IS, IS THERE A MOTION, UH, TO APPROVE THE REQUEST BY THE APPLICANT, THE CITY OF HUBER HEIGHTS, FOR APPROVAL OF A TEXT AMENDMENT TO THE ZONING ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF HUBER HEIGHTS, TA 23 DASH 14 B IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF STAFF'S MEMORANDUM DATED JUNE 6TH, 2023 IN THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S DECISION RECORD ATTACHED THERE TOO.
IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND BY MS. THOMAS? SECRETARY, WILL YOU PLEASE CALL THE ROLL? MR. CASSIDY? YES.
MOTION PASSES FIVE TO ZERO ON THE TEXT AMENDMENT AT TEXT AMENDMENT TA 23 DASH 14 A.
DO WE NEED TO, YOU CAN CONTINUE IT OR I CAN JUST, UH, YOU CAN FORMALLY CONTINUE IT, OR, UM, WELL, YEAH, FORMALLY CONTINUE IT.
THAT WAY WE DON'T HAVE TO RE ADVERTISE.
SO IF THERE A MOTION TO CONTINUE TO THE NEXT MEETING, THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL.
IS THERE A MOTION TO, UH, CONTINUE THE CITY HUBER HEIGHTS? UH, TEXT AMENDMENT TO THE ZONING ORDINANCE OF THE CITY, HUBER HEIGHTS, TA 23 DASH 14 A IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF STAFF'S, A MEMORANDUM DATED JUNE 6TH, 2023, MOVED BY MS. THOMAS THE SECOND.
SECRETARY, WILL YOU PLEASE CALL THE RULE MR. JEFFRIES? YES.
MOTION'S BEEN APPROVED TO, UH, TO CONTINUE.
UH, NEXT ON THE AGENDA IS A, UH, ADDITIONAL BUSINESS, WHICH I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ANY.
UH, NEXT IS APPROVAL OF MINUTES WITHOUT OBJECTION.
THE MINUTES OF THE MAY 9TH, 2023 PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING WILL BE APPROVED.
HEARING NO OBJECTIONS, THEY ARE APPROVED REPORTS AND CALENDAR REVIEW, MR. CRELL.
UM, SO I ANTICIPATE WAWA WILL BE SUBMITTING THEIR APPLICATION, UM, THIS WEEK.
SO THAT WILL BE ON THE JULY 11TH, UH, UH, COMMISSION, UH, CALENDAR.
SO THAT WOULD BE AT THE CORNER OF, UH, CHAMBERSBURG AND OLD TROY PIKE, THE NORTHWEST CORNER.
UM, WE'VE SEEN, WE'VE PROVIDED INITIAL FEEDBACK TO THEIR SITE PLAN, UH, BOTH ENGINEERING AND, AND I HAVE, I HAVE NOT SEEN ELEVATIONS, SO I'M NOT SURE WHAT THAT, THAT LOOKS LIKE.
UH, BUT THEIR SITE PLAN IS, UM, HILLY.
UH, SO, UH, YOU'LL, YOU'LL NEED YOUR, UH, YOUR CLIMBING BOOTS TO, UH, GET A, A LARGE SOFT DRINK
UM, THE, UH, WE ALSO ANTICIPATE CONTINENTAL APARTMENTS.
THE, THE GROUP THAT GAVE THE INFORMAL PRESENTATION, I ANTICIPATE THEY WILL APPLY.
I'M HOPING FOR THE JULY 11TH MEETING AT THE LATEST.
IT'LL BE THE AUGUST 1ST MEETING.
UH, AND THEN I KNOW THAT, UH, UM, METROPOLITAN HOLDINGS IS WORKING DILIGENTLY TO GET THEIR DETAILED DEVELOPMENT PLAN, UM, SUBMITTED HERE.
I'M NOT SURE THEY'RE GONNA MAKE IT FOR JULY 11TH, BUT IT'LL DEFINITELY BE HERE BY, FOR AUGUST, SO, OKAY.
UM, DOES ANYONE HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO BRING BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION? EVERYONE HAVE A NICE AND SAFE JULY THE FOURTH.
ON JULY THE FIRST HERE IN HUBER.