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GOOD EVENING EVERYONE.[1. Call Meeting To Order/Roll Call]
TO CITY HUB HEIGHTS, UH, WORK SESSION.UH, THIS IS A SPECIAL WORK SESSION THAT WE HAD, UM, TALKED ABOUT PRIOR TO, UH, THE, AFTER WE HAD THE RESULTS OF THE WATER STUDY, UH, WE WANTED TO HAVE A KIND OF A TOWN HALL WORK SESSION WHERE WE COULD TAKE QUESTIONS, UH, FROM, UH, FROM THE COMMUNITY MEMBERS AND TO GET SOME CLARIFICATION ON THE ACTUAL SURVEY ON THE STUDY THAT WAS DONE FROM ESSON EEL.
SO THAT'S WHAT THIS PARTICULAR MEETING IS ABOUT.
WE'RE GONNA OFFER OPPORTUNITY FOR EVERYONE TO ASK QUESTIONS AND GET CLARIFICATION.
UH, WE'LL HAVE A, UH, PRESENTATION FROM THE CITY MANAGER, UH, AND THEN, UH, WE HAVE THE REPRESENTATIVE FROM BURGES SNAPPLE HERE THAT CAN ALSO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
THE ENGINEERS HERE, OUR FINANCE INSTRUCTORS HERE.
SO, UH, HOPEFULLY TONIGHT WE CAN GET AS MANY QUESTIONS ANSWERED AS THE COMMUNITY HAS.
SO, WITH THAT BEING SAID, THAT WAS KINDA THE PURPOSE OF THE MEETING.
UH, AND BASED OFF THAT PRESENTATION THAT WAS GIVEN AT THE FEBRUARY 21ST, UM, WORK SESSION BY ESSON NIEL.
SO, UH, WITH THAT SAID, MR. ROGERS, UH, WHAT'D YOU CALL THE ROLE, PLEASE? MR. SHAW? HERE.
[ Water Distribution System Integrity Study - Burgess & Niple]
WE HAVE ITEM TWO A, WHICH IS THE WATER DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM INTEGRITY STUDY FROM BURGESS AND I, SO BEFORE WE GET TO THAT, UH, I KNOW BRIAN'S STAFF HAS PREPARED, UH, AN ACTUAL PRESENTATION TO, UH, GO OVER SOME OF THESE ITEMS AS WELL, TO ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS, UH, IN INFORMAL PRESENTATION.AND ONCE THAT'S DONE, THEN WE'LL OPEN THE FLOOR UP TO QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMUNITY MEMBERS, UH, FOR EITHER STAFF FINANCE, UM, MR. BERGMAN OR, UH, THE ENGINEERING FIRM.
SO, WITH THAT SAID, BRIAN, UH, IF THERE'S ANYTHING YOU NEED TO PREFACE OR TALK ABOUT BEFOREHAND, UM, FLOOR IS YOURS FOR THE PRESENTATION YOU'VE PREPARED.
MR. MARION MEMBERS OF COUNSEL, UM, WANTED TO TAKE, UH, AN OPPORTUNITY TO, UM, PULL SOME OF THE RELEVANT INFORMATION THAT WE HEARD IN THE PRESENTATION FROM BURGESS AND NIEL BACK IN FEBRUARY, AND PUT THAT INTO, UH, A MORE DIGESTIBLE FORMAT IN A MORE DIGESTIBLE, UM, CONTEXT, SO THAT THE INFORMATION THAT WAS SHARED, AND THERE WAS A LOT OF IT.
AND, UM, AND KEVIN DID A GREAT JOB OF BOILING DOWN, UH, A GREAT DEAL OF CONTENT INTO HIS PRESENTATION.
UH, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, UH, IT'S STILL A VERY COMPLEX, UH, DOCUMENT.
IT'S STILL, UH, A VERY COMPLEX SUBJECT.
AND THE CONCERN, I THINK, THAT I HAVE, I THINK THE CONCERN THAT, UH, A LOT OF, A LOT OF RESIDENTS MIGHT HAVE IS THAT THE COMPLEXITY OF THIS ISSUE MIGHT CAUSE US SOME, UH, PARALYSIS BY ANALYSIS OR, UH, IF YOU WILL, A, A LACK OF ACTION BECAUSE, UM, OF JUST THE, THE PURE BULK, UH, OF WHAT IT IS THAT HAS BEEN SHARED WITH US BY BURGESS AND NIEL.
SO, THE PRESENTATION THAT I'VE PUT TOGETHER, IT'S NOT OVERLY COMPLEX, UH, BUT WHAT I DID WANT TO DO IS KIND OF PULL OUT SOME OF THE KEY INFORMATION THAT, UH, THAT WE AS STAFF BELIEVE WE HEARD, UH, FROM THE BURGESS AND IPO PRESENTATION.
PUT THAT IN SOME CONTEXT, UH, FOR, UH, FOR ALL OF US, JUST STAFF COUNSEL AS WELL AS CITIZENS.
AND THEN KIND OF, UM, SET THE STAGE FOR WHAT IS GOING TO BE THE BIGGER, BROADER POLICY DISCUSSION THAT COUNCIL'S GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE, UH, ABOUT WHERE WE'RE GOING TO TAKE ALL THE INFORMATION THAT'S BEEN PRESENTED TO US, UH, THROUGH THE BURGESS AND NIEL STUDY.
SO, WITH THAT, UH, JUST REAL QUICK, THIS PRESENTATION COVERS A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT ITEMS, THE BURGESS AND NIEL STUDY TAKEAWAY, UH, STAFF'S INITIAL THOUGHTS AND RESPONSES, UH, SOME PERSPECTIVES AND EXPECTATIONS.
I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT, UH, BOTH FOR STAFF AND FOR THE COMMUNITY.
UH, TALK ABOUT THOSE LONG-TERM POLICY OPTIONS.
AND THAT'S EFFECTIVELY, UH, WHAT ARE THE, THE KIND OF BROAD BASED PATHS THAT THE CITY CAN UNDERTAKE TO BEGIN IMPLEMENTING, UH, WHAT WE'VE HEARD PRESENTED THROUGH THE BURGESS AND LIFE STUDY.
AND THEN TALK ABOUT SOME THINGS THAT WE'RE DOING HERE IN THE NEAR TERM, UH, TO DEMONSTRATE THAT WE'VE HEARD THE MESSAGE AND THAT WE'RE CONTINUING TO ADVANCE BOTH, UH, THE WANTS OF COUNSEL AND WHAT WE'RE HEARING FROM THE COMMUNITY.
SO, UH, OUT OF THE, UH, OUT OF THE, THE PRESENTATION THAT KEVIN PROVIDED, THESE ARE SOME OF THE, THE KEY THINGS THAT, UM, THAT WE THINK REALLY NEED TO BE CALLED, UH, TO THE FOREFRONT.
UH, YOU KNOW, THE 2019 AND 20 SPIKES, UH, ARE DIRECTLY CORRELATED TO THE WATER PRESSURE AND THE SOFTENING PROJECTS.
CAST IRON PIPE IN THE SYSTEM IS THE MOST AFFECTED PIPE, UH, OF THE THREE DIFFERENT TYPES.
REMEMBER, WE'RE USING, UH, DUCTAL IRON, CAST IRON, AND, UH, CONCRETE, UH, PROACTIVE WATER MAIN REPLACEMENT, UH, IS ENCOURAGED.
UH, THERE'S AN ALTERNATIVE PIPING RECOMMENDATION THAT'S ALSO IN THE STUDY, AN ALTERNATIVE MATERIALS, UH, PIPING.
UH, THEN THERE'S THE RECOMMENDATION THAT INCLUDES THE UTILIZATION OF ZINC COATED DUCTAL IRON, UH, WHEREVER POSSIBLE.
THERE'S A, UH, COUGH TO WARRANT EIGHT INCH PIPE.
UH, IF YOU'LL RECALL, UH, KEVIN TALKED ABOUT THE FACT THAT, UH, THE SIZE OF THE DIAMETER OF THE
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PIPE, UH, ALSO IS RELATIVE TO THE SIZE OF THE WALL, THICKNESS OF THE PIPE, AND SO THAT THE LARGER DIAMETERS HAVE, UH, LARGER WALL THICK OR HAVE, UH, LARGER WALL THICKNESSES.AND, AND THAT IS A, A, A BETTER PIPE TO HAVE.
SO THERE'S A WARRANT CALL, UH, FOR EIGHT INCH MAIN, UH, TALKS ABOUT INCREASING OUR INVESTMENT FROM WHERE WE ARE TODAY, UH, WHICH IS, UH, 1.8 MILLION, I THINK IS WHERE WE ARE, UH, IN THE BUDGET TODAY, UP TO 4 MILLION ANNUALLY.
IT TALKS ABOUT, UH, ACOUSTIC TESTING IN THE FUTURE.
SO ONCE WE KIND OF ADDRESS SOME OF THESE, UH, IMMEDIATE, UH, UH, HIGH IMPACT WATER MAIN BREAK AREAS, UH, TAKING THAT SYSTEM AND THEN, UH, PROVIDING AN ACOUSTICAL TEST, UH, TO IDENTIFY, UH, THIN WALLS OR THINNING WALLS WITHIN THE SYSTEM, SO WE CAN, UH, TRY AND PREDICT, UH, WITH, UH, WITH SOME ACCURACY WHERE THESE MAINS MIGHT, UH, WHERE THESE MAIN BREAKS MIGHT OCCUR, UH, SO WE CAN BEGIN, UH, PROACTIVELY, UH, ADDRESSING THAT DEGRADING MEAN BEFORE THESE BREAKS ARRIVE.
UH, AND THEN, UH, THE STUDY ALSO NOTES THAT, UH, THE SYSTEM, THE SYSTEM'S EXPANSION IS REALLY LONELY, LIMITED, UH, BY OUR ABILITY TO STORE, UH, AND PRODUCE WATER.
SO, UH, WE THOUGHT IT WAS, UH, UH, THESE WERE KIND OF THE, THE KEY POINTS FROM THAT STUDY.
SO IN PULLING THESE COMPONENTS OUT, UH, AND TRYING TO PUT TOGETHER OUR INITIAL THOUGHTS AND RESPONSES TO THESE.
SO, UH, THE ORIGINAL BULLET POINTS ARE IN BLACK.
OUR COMMENTS ARE OUR RESPONSES, UH, ARE IN GREEN.
UH, THE 1920, UH, SPIKES, UH, ARE THE RESULT OF THOSE PRESSURES, AND RIGHT NOW, UH, ARE 2022.
UH, DATA WOULD INDICATE THAT WE ARE NOW TRENDING BACK DOWN TO A PRE-PROJECT, UH, LEVEL OF BRAKES, UH, CAST IRON PIPE.
UM, AGAIN, UH, WE ARE NO LONGER, UM, USING OR, UH, UH, WE'RE NO LONGER USING CAST IRON PIPE, AND THAT IS THE PRIMARY FOCUS OF OUR REPLACEMENT STRATEGY.
SO THESE AREAS WHERE WE'RE SEEING THESE HIGH FREQUENCY OF BRAKES, UH, THIS IS, UH, ALMOST, UH, CONSISTENTLY OR UNIFORMLY CONSISTENT WITH THE CAST IRON PIPE.
UH, I BELIEVE THE STUDY NOTES THAT THE AVERAGE AGE OF THE CAST IRON PIPES, APPROXIMATELY 56, 57 YEARS OLD, UH, AND IT'S THE OLDEST PIPE IN THE SYSTEM, UH, PROACTIVELY REPLACE, UH, THE MAINS.
UH, AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT STRATEGY DISCUSSION, UH, TONIGHT.
UH, WE TALK ABOUT, UH, WITHIN THE STUDY, UH, THIS ULTERIOR PIPE OR THIS ALTERNATIVE PIPE MATERIAL, WHICH IS LARGELY, UH, PETROLEUM BASED, UH, TALKING ABOUT, UM, THAT WITH, UH, WITH THE ENGINEER AND THE ENGINEER SPEAKING WITH HIS COUNTERPARTS.
UH, WE LIKE THE, THE CONCEPT OF WHAT THIS ALTERNATIVE PIPE MATERIAL REPRESENTS.
UH, BUT WE HAVE SOME CONCERNS BECAUSE THIS MATERIAL IS RELATIVELY NEW IN APPLICATION.
SO WHILE, UM, IT MEETS SOME INITIAL TESTING REQUIREMENTS, UH, WHILE, UH, YOU KNOW, IT IS APPROVED TO CONDUCT, AS A MATTER OF FACT, MONTGOMERY COUNTY, UH, USES SOME OF THIS PLASTIC, UH, MAIN IN ITS, UH, IN ITS INFRASTRUCTURE.
WE DON'T KNOW HOW IT'S GONNA REACT OVER TIME.
WE DON'T KNOW HOW IT'S GONNA HOLD UP OVER TIME.
UH, SO FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, WE KNOW THAT DUCTAL IRON WORKS.
WE KNOW THAT DUCTAL IRON WORKS VERY WELL.
UH, WE HAVE AN INTEREST IN THESE ALTERNATIVE MATERIALS, BUT WE WANT TO SEE THESE IN AN APPLICATION A LITTLE LONGER BEFORE, UH, WE GEAR UP AND, AND REALLY GET BEHIND THOSE AS, UH, AMENDMENTS TO OUR STANDARDS.
UH, THE ZINC COATED DUCTILE IRON, UH, WE ARE USING THAT ON ALL OF THE CURRENT PROJECTS THAT WE HAVE, UH, THAT WE'RE PUTTING TOGETHER.
UH, WE ARE ALREADY BEGINNING TO MAKE AMENDMENTS, UH, THROUGH ENGINEERING NOTES, UH, TO ALL OF THOSE PROJECTS THAT ARE, ARE BEING PROPOSED TO UTILIZE THE ZINC CODED DUCTAL IRON.
AND WE'LL BE AMENDING THE CITY STANDARD SHORTLY TO MAKE SURE THAT DUCTAL IRON, UH, IS THE, UH, IS THE REQUIRED MATERIAL.
UH, SAME HOLDS TRUE FOR, UH, THE 18 INCH WATER MAIN, UH, MINIMUM AS RECOMMENDED BY BURGESS AND NIEL.
SO WE'LL BE IMPLEMENTING THAT, UH, INTO OUR, UH, INTO OUR, OUR OPERATIONAL STANDARDS AND EXPECTATIONS HERE SHORTLY.
UH, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE, UM, THE INCREASE IN INVESTMENT, THAT'S ALSO PART OF STRATEGY DISCUSSION TONIGHT.
UH, SO I HOPE THAT, UH, SOME OF THE INFORMATION THAT WE'RE GOING TO SHARE A LITTLE LATER TONIGHT WILL BE DEMONSTRATIVE OF THE FACT THAT WE ARE GIVING THIS, UH, THOUGHT THAT WE ARE, UM, WANTING, UH, AND ENCOURAGING POLICY DISCUSSION FROM COUNCIL, UH, SO WE CAN GET SOME DIRECTION A LITTLE LATER IN THE YEAR ON WHERE IS THE BEST, WHERE'S THE BEST WAY TO GO, UH, WITH ADDRESSING THESE, UH, THESE CALLS FOR GREATER INVESTMENT.
UH, AGAIN, THE ACOUSTIC INFRASTRUCTURE, UH, I WAIT AND SEE POSITION ON THIS AS WELL, AND THAT'S RECOMMENDED WITHIN THE STUDY.
I BELIEVE IT'S 2027, I THINK IS, UH, IS WHAT'S CAUGHT OUT IN THE STUDY.
ONCE WE GET CAUGHT UP, UH, ON THE ACTUAL ACTIVE BREAK PATTERNS, THAT'S THE TIME TO CONDUCT THIS STUDY OR, UH, THIS, UH, THIS TEST.
SO WE'RE, WE'RE VERY THOUGHTFUL.
UH, WE'RE TRYING TO BE THOUGHTFUL ABOUT THAT.
UH, WE ARE CURRENTLY WORKING TO ADVANCE A NEW WELL INTO THE SYSTEM TO BE ABLE TO MEET ALL OF OUR CURRENT AND FUTURE DEMANDS FOR, FOR WATER SUPPLY.
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OF STAFF'S INITIAL THOUGHTS AND RESPONSES TO THE HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE STUDY THAT WAS PREPARED, UH, BY, UH, KEVIN AND AND HIS TEAM.NOW, WE'VE SPENT A GREAT DEAL OF TIME TALKING ABOUT, UH, THE CITY OF HUBER HEIGHTS, UH, AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE CITY OF HUBER HEIGHTS, UM, IN TOTALITY.
UH, AND SO I THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO JUST TAKE A STEP BACK AND LOOK AT ALL OF THIS INFORMATION, UH, SOME IN A MORE, UH, BOTH UNIVERSAL WAY WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE MIAMI VALLEY, UH, BUT ALSO WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE CITY.
UH, WE'RE A VERY LARGE COMMUNITY GEOGRAPHICALLY, AND, UH, WE'VE BEEN BUILT OUT OVER TIME.
AND SO, UH, I THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO BE ABLE TO POINT OUT SOME INTERESTING, UH, PIECES OF INFORMATION THAT I THINK, UM, LEND A GREAT DEAL OF UNDERSTANDING, UH, TO WHY WE'RE SEEING SOME OF THE CONVERSATIONS AND THE DISCUSSIONS THAT WE'RE SEEING.
SO I THINK EVERYBODY'S SEEN THIS CHART.
UH, THIS IS THE CHART OF THE TOTAL NUMBER OF MAIN BREAKS, UM, IN THE CITY OVER TIME, GOING BACK TO 2010 TO WHERE WE ARE TODAY, OR EXCUSE ME, AT LEAST THROUGH 2022.
AND WHEN WE WERE LOOKING AT THIS INFORMATION, IT OCCURRED TO ME, WELL, YOU KNOW, WHERE ARE ALL THESE HAPPENING? HOW IS ALL OF THIS UNFOLDING? AND STAFF WENT DOWN AND WE BROKE THESE WATER MAIN, UH, WE BROKE DOWN THESE WATER MAIN BREAKS, UH, BY WARD.
AND YOU CAN SEE THAT, UH, IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE, WARD FOUR, UH, IS THE WARD THAT HAS BEEN MOST SIGNIFICANTLY IMPACTED BY THESE BREAKS, UH, OVER THE COURSE OF THE MEASUREMENT PERIOD.
SO FROM 19 THROUGH NOW, UH, IT REPRESENTS ROUGHLY 40% OF THE TOTAL MAIN BREAKS.
SO, UM, I KNOW THAT NOT ALL OF THE WARDS ARE, UM, EQUAL IN SIZE, BUT IF WE WERE TO ASSUME THAT FOR THE PURPOSES OF, OF THIS METRIC, UH, THAT'S 16% OF THE TOTAL AREA OF THE CITY IS AFFECTED BY 40% OF THE BREAKS, UH, THERE'S BEEN SOME CONVERSATION, UM, INTERNALLY, AND WE, WE'VE HAD IT VERY GENERALLY AT THE, AT THE COUNCIL LEVEL ABOUT WHY THAT'S HAPPENING.
UH, AND THIS MAP IS REPRESENTATIVE, UM, ONE OF THE KEY REPRESENTATIONS OF WHY THAT IS.
UH, WE TALKED EARLIER ABOUT THERE BEING THREE TYPES OF MEAN WITHIN THE SYSTEM, UH, DR PRE-STRESSED CONCRETE, AND THEN THE CAST IRON.
UH, THE RED ON THIS MAP REPRESENTS THOSE CAST IRON PIPES, UH, WITHIN THE SYSTEM.
UH, BLUE IS THE DUCTAL IRON, AND THEN THERE'S, UH, A GREEN, UH, LINE, A GREEN THREAD, UH, THROUGH THE CITY, AND THAT'S THAT PRE-STRESSED CONCRETE.
UH, A AS YOU CAN SEE, WE'VE OVERLAID THIS, UH, MAP, UH, WHICH WE RECEIVED FROM, UH, BURGESS AND KNIFE.
WE OVERLAID THIS MAP ON THE WARD MAP, AND YOU CAN SEE THAT WARDS FOUR AND FIVE ARE THE, THE TWO WARDS THAT ARE MOST IMPACTED BY THE PRESENCE OF, UH, DR.
BUT THERE ARE ELEMENTS OF DUCTAL IRON IN ALMOST ALL WARDS, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF WARD TWO, UH, ONLY BECAUSE THAT REFLECTS THE NEWEST CONSTRUCTION WITHIN THE CITY.
UH, AND WE, UH, WE'VE BEEN USING DR.
ION FOR, UH, SEVERAL DECADES NOW, AND THAT'S WHY WE, WE DON'T SEE THAT, UH, IN WARD TWO.
UH, IF YOU DO A LAYOVER TO, UH, IF YOU, UM, THERE'S A MAP WITHIN, UH, THE BURGESS AND NIEL STUDY THAT WE WEREN'T ABLE TO IMPORT HERE.
UH, BUT THERE'S A CORROSIVE SOILS MAP, UH, AND YOU'LL SEE THAT, UH, A GREAT DEAL OF THAT CORROSIVE SOIL, UM, MAP AS IT RELATES TO THE IRON PIPE.
UH, ALSO OVERLAYS, UH, A VERY, UH, AND, AND VERY, UH, GREAT MASS OVER WARDS, UH, FOUR, FIVE, AND, UH, AND THREE.
UH, WHILE WE'VE TALKED A LOT ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS HERE IN HUBER HEIGHTS, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE WE'RE NOT THE ONLY COMMUNITY THAT SUFFERS FROM THIS ISSUE.
AND THAT'S WHAT, WHAT THIS CHART, UH, IS DESIGNED TO DEMONSTRATE, UM, OTHER COMMUNITIES ARE SUFFERING FROM THIS PROBLEM AS WELL, UM, TO VARYING DEGREES.
I WOULD NOTE, AND I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT TAKEAWAY FOR ME FROM THIS SLIDE IS, IF YOU LOOK AT THE AVERAGE AGGREGATE AT THE BOTTOM, THE TOTAL BREAK RATE PER HUNDRED MILE IS INCREASING OVER TIME.
OTHER COMMUNITIES ARE FALLING BEHIND ON INFRASTRUCTURE MAINTENANCE AS WELL.
THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM THAT IS UNIQUE TO HUBER HEIGHTS.
WHAT I CAN SAY IS, FOR MY, MY OPINION, HOW WE ARE NOW PREPARING TO RESPOND TO THESE GRILLING INFRASTRUCTURE CHALLENGES IS GOING TO BE ON THE FOREFRONT OF WHAT OTHER COMMUNITIES ARE DOING BASED ON THE DIRECTION THAT COUNCIL'S BEEN PROVIDING TO DATE.
SO, GREEN ARE THOSE COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE A BREAK RATE THAT IS LESS THAN OURS.
AND THAT PARTICULAR COMPARISON HERE, RED, ARE THE COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE, UM, THAT HAVE, UH, BREAK RATES THAT ARE GREATER THAN OURS.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT EXTENSIVELY IS MAKING IT BETTER.
WHAT ARE WE DOING TO STOP IT? WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO TO STOP IT? WHEN ARE WE GONNA DO TO MAKE IT BETTER? HOW ARE THESE GOING TO, HOW ARE THE, HOW IS THIS PROBLEM GOING TO END? AND ONE OF THE
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THINGS WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT IS WHEN WE DEFINE WHEN IT'S NOT A PROBLEM, AND THIS ISN'T A QUESTION THAT I'M ASKING TONIGHT TO GET AN ANSWER TONIGHT.I'M SIMPLY PUTTING THIS OUT ON, UH, OUT ON THE FLOOR FOR COUNCIL TO CONSIDER AT THE APPROPRIATE POINT IN TIME IN THE FUTURE, WHEN IT DOES, UH, WHEN IT DOES COME TIME TO DISCUSS.
ZERO BREAKS PER HUNDRED MILES IS JUST AN UNREALISTIC EXPECTATION.
AND 74 AND A HALF BREAKS PER HUNDRED MILES.
IT IS NOT A, A SITUATION THAT WE CAN CONTEND, THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION.
BUT WHAT IS THE TARGET? WHEN CAN WE SAY THAT WE ARE BEING PROACTIVE ABOUT THIS ISSUE, THAT WE ARE INVESTING APPROPRIATELY IN THIS INFRASTRUCTURE, AND WE ARE MAINTAINING THIS INFRASTRUCTURE ADEQUATELY AND APPROPRIATELY? SO, AGAIN, NOT A QUESTION, I'M LOOKING FOR AN ANSWER TONIGHT, BUT SOMETHING THAT COUNCIL WILL NEED TO THINK ABOUT AS WE MOVE THROUGH THIS DISCUSSION, UH, IN THE WEEKS AND MONTHS AHEAD, UH, LOOKING AT LONG-TERM POLICY OPTIONS, THIS IS, UH, THIS IS THE STICKY WICKET.
UH, THIS IS A PROJECT, THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT IS GOING TO REQUIRE US TO INVEST MORE RESOURCES, AND THIS IS ABOUT HOW DO WE GO ABOUT GETTING THOSE RESOURCES AND HOW DO WE BEGIN ADDRESSING THIS PROBLEM.
SO THREE POLICY OPTIONS THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT.
THERE'S THE STATUS QUO OPTION, THE DO NOTHING OPTION, AND THAT'S ALWAYS AN OPTION NO MATTER WHAT IT IS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, THE STATUS QUO OPTION.
THEN THERE'S THE BURGESS AND NIEL PLAN.
UH, SO WE'VE INCLUDED THAT, UH, WITH A TWIST ON IT.
WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT HERE IN A MINUTE.
AND THEN WE'VE ALSO TALKED ABOUT TACKLING THE PROBLEM HEAD ON, WHICH IS THE CAST IRON REPLACEMENT PLAN.
SO WE'LL TALK THROUGH THOSE HERE, UM, IN, UH, IN A VERY GRAND SENSE, POLICY ONE, THE STATUS QUO PLAN.
AGAIN, THIS IS TO CONTINUE DOING WHAT WE'RE DOING NOW.
THIS IS THE 1.8 MILLION INVESTMENT IN ANNUAL INFRASTRUCTURE.
THE FINANCING FOR THIS RIGHT NOW IS RATE BASED, UH, AND WE CONTINUE TO BE RATE BASED INTO THE FUTURE.
THIS MINIMIZES RATE INCREASES OVER TIME.
UM, RATE INCREASES WOULD LARGELY BE ASSOCIATED WITH OUR ONGOING OPERATIONAL EXPENSES, UH, OR OUR CAPITAL EXPENSES RELATIVE TO INFLATION.
UH, THIS IS MANAGEABLE FOR THE CURRENT STAFF.
UH, BUT THE CHALLENGE WITH THIS IS THAT IT'S REACTIVE, AND I THINK THE PLAN CALLS OUT THE FACT THAT OVER TIME, UH, TO MAINTAIN THE STATUS QUO WILL ONLY EXACERBATE OUR PROBLEM WHEN, AS IT COMES TO BREAK RATES, AND THEN THEY WILL CONTINUE TO EXPONENTIALLY MULTIPLY OVER TIME.
BUT THAT IS A POLICY OPTION THAT COUNCIL HAS AVAILABLE, HAS AVAILABLE TO IT TO CONSIDER.
OPTION NUMBER TWO, BURGIS NIEL PLAN WITH A TWIST.
THE BURGESS NIEL PLAN CALLS OUT 4 MILLION IN ANNUAL INVESTMENT.
WHEN WE GET TO THAT MARK, WE'RE RUNNING INTO THE SIZE AND SCOPE OF A PROJECT THAT CANNOT BE CONTAINED WITHIN A CALENDAR YEAR, AND IT WOULD TAKE APPROXIMATELY 18 MONTHS TO BE ABLE TO COMPLETE 4 MILLION WORTH OF WORK.
WHERE WE FIND OURSELVES NOW, UM, IS NOT A DISSIMILAR POSITION WHERE WE MIGHT FIND OURSELVES IN THE FUTURE.
WE NOW HAVE PROJECTS THAT ARE OVERLAPPING WITHIN CALENDAR AND BUDGET YEARS, AND WE'RE HAVING DIFFICULTY KEEPING TRACK OF WHAT STREET'S, PART OF WHAT PROJECT, AND WHEN IS THIS STREET GONNA BE DONE RELATIVE TO THAT STREET, BECAUSE WE HAVE THESE OVERLAPPING YEARS IN AN EFFORT TO TRY AND, UH, ADDRESS THAT ISSUE AND MAKE SURE THAT COUNCIL STAFF AND THE COMMUNITY CAN EASILY KEEP TRACK OF WHAT WE'RE DOING WHEN WE'RE DOING IT, AND WHEN THESE PROJECTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DONE.
WE ARE, WE ARE ACTUALLY SUGGESTING THAT COUNCIL LOOK AT $6 MILLION EVERY 18 MONTHS.
SO IF YOU WERE TO LOOK AT $4 MILLION A YEAR, TIMES THREE YEARS AS 12, IF YOU LOOK AT $6 MILLION EVERY 18 MONTHS, THAT'S THREE YEARS, THAT'S $12 MILLION.
SO THE TOTAL SPEND AS RECOMMENDED BY BURGESS AND NIEL OVER THAT MEASUREMENT PERIOD WOULD BE THE SAME, BUT IT WOULD ALLOW US TO ENGINEER AND WORK ON THESE PROJECTS IN DEFINED PERIODS OF TIME SO THAT EVERYONE CAN KEEP TRACK OF THE STATUS OF THEIR PARTICULAR PROJECT, IF THAT'S OF INTEREST TO THEM.
THIS STRATEGY IS ALSO GOING TO BE BASED, UH, LARGELY, UH, RATE BASED.
UH, AND IT WOULD REQUIRE, UH, I WILL USE THE PHRASE SUBSTANTIAL RATE INCREASES OVER TIME, UM, TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF WHAT THAT MIGHT LOOK LIKE, UM, MONTGOMERY COUNTY RECENTLY, UH, MADE THE DECISION TO INVEST IN ITS INFRASTRUCTURE THE WAY THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT INVESTING IN OUR INFRASTRUCTURE.
MONTGOMERY COUNTY PROPOSED, I BELIEVE IT WAS FIVE 20% RATE INCREASES.
SO MONTGOMERY COUNTY EFFECTIVELY INCREASED THEIR UTILITY RATE A HUNDRED PERCENT OVER A FIVE YEAR PERIOD.
UM, THAT'S WHAT SOMETHING LIKE THIS MIGHT LOOK LIKE.
THESE WOULD BE, UH, SUBSTANTIAL RATE INCREASES.
THE BENEFITS, THOUGH, WITH THIS PARTICULAR PLAN IS THAT IT'S IN LINE WITH THE BURGESS AND NIEL RECOMMENDATION WHEN IT COMES TO
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TOTAL INVESTMENT IN THE SYSTEM.UH, THENO ADDITIONAL BENEFIT IS THAT IT ADVANCES PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE.
AGAIN, THAT'S CALLED OUT IN THE STUDY THAT ONCE WE GET TO THIS LEVEL, WE ARE NOW AHEAD OF THE PROBLEM.
UM, WE'RE AHEAD OF THE CURVE INSTEAD OF BEHIND IT.
AND AGAIN, MOVING TO THE 18 MONTH STRATEGY PROVIDES PROJECT CLARITY, WHICH WE TALKED ABOUT JUST A MOMENT AGO.
UH, THERE ARE CHALLENGES WITH THIS PLAN.
OBVIOUSLY, NOTHING IS, UH, IS ALL POSITIVE, UH, WITHOUT SOME, OR WITHOUT SOME DRAWBACK.
UH, IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE, AS I'VE NOTED ALREADY, UH, THERE WILL BE LARGER THAN, UH, PREVIOUS RATE INCREASES THAT WOULD BE ASSOCIATED TO GENERATE THIS KIND OF REVENUE ON A REGULAR BASIS.
UH, THE RATE INCREASES WOULD BE PERMANENT, UH, AND WE WOULD NEED TO ADD AT LEAST ONE OTHER STAFF MEMBER IN THE ENGINEERING DIVISION IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO MANAGE, UH, NOT ONLY, UM, THE PREP WORK, THE, UH, PREPARATORY WORK AND THE ENGINEERING THAT GOES INTO THIS, BUT ALSO ITS ACTUAL IMPLEMENTATION AND MANAGEMENT IN THE FIELD POLICY.
UH, THIS IS THE CAST IRON REPLACEMENT PLAN.
AGAIN, WE WOULD TARGET, UH, THOSE AREAS, THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS, UH, THAT, UH, THAT HAVE THIS RED PIPE, THAT HAVE THIS CAST IRON PIPE IN THEM.
UH, AND THAT WOULD BE OUR, OUR FOCUS FOR THIS PARTICULAR PLANT.
AND WE WOULD ALLOW, UM, ALL OTHER AREAS OF THE CITY WITH RESPECT TO, UM, TO DUCTILE IRON IN THE PRE-CAST, OR THE PRE, UH, EXCUSE ME, PRESTRESS CONCRETE.
UH, WE WOULD ALLOW THIS TO TAKE A, A SECONDARY CONDITION.
UH, THIS PARTICULAR POLICY OPTION, UM, AGAIN, FOCUSED, UH, THIS WOULD MOVE TO AN ASSESSMENT BASED FUNDING STRATEGY, UH, AWAY FROM THE RATES.
UH, AND THAT HAS TO OCCUR FOR, UH, FOR ONE PARTICULAR REASON.
UH, I SHOULD SAY ACTUALLY TWO.
UH, ONE IS IT'S A COMPREHENSIVE AND TARGETED PLAN.
UH, THIS EXCEEDS THE BURGESS AND NIEL RECOMMENDATION, UH, AND THIS BEING THAT IT'S THE HIGHEST ANNUAL INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENT, UH, WE WOULD BE LOOKING AT SOMETHING SIGNIFICANT ANNUALLY, UM, UH, OVER TIME.
UH, BUT, UH, ONE OF THE BENEFITS IS, IS THAT ASSESSMENTS ARE SET IN VALUE AND THEY TERMINATE SO THEY DON'T INCREASE OVER TIME RELATIVE TO INFLATION, THEY WOULD BE FLAT.
UM, THERE'S A SINGLE FEE THAT GOES ON AT THE BEGINNING, AND THEN THAT'S THE FEE THAT STAYS ON UNTIL THE PROJECT REACHES ITS, UH, TERMINABLE THRESHOLD, AND THEN THE ASSESSMENT FALLS OFF.
UH, THE CHALLENGE WITH THIS, UH, PARTICULAR POLICY APPROACH IS THAT, UH, ASSESSMENTS ARE COMPLEX, UH, AND TIME CONSUMING.
UM, UH, THE PROCESS FOR PUTTING ON ASSESSMENTS IS, UH, CLEARLY DEFINED IN THE OHIO REVISED CODE.
UH, THERE IS A RIGHT OF REFERENDUM, A RIGHT OF PETITION THAT'S OFFERED THE CITIZENS THAT WOULD BE AFFECTED BY THIS.
UH, SO THERE ARE NUMEROUS PUBLIC HEARING AND, AND NOTICE REQUIREMENTS.
UH, AND THEN THE OTHER CHALLENGE TO THIS PARTICULAR OPTION, BASED ON WHAT IT IS THAT WE WOULD BE LOOKING AT IN TOTAL INVESTMENT AND MANAGEMENT, UH, WE WOULD NEED TO ADD ONE, IF NOT TWO ADDITIONAL STAFF MEMBERS, UH, TO THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT TO BE ABLE, UH, TO AFFECT THIS PARTICULAR PLAN.
NOW, I SAY THIS ABOUT ALL THREE PLANS.
UH, THESE ARE VERY HIGH LEVEL CONCEPTS THAT WE, UM, THAT WE WANT COUNCIL TO BEGIN THINKING ABOUT.
UH, THESE ARE, UH, EFFECTIVELY THE TWO MOST DIRECT WAYS TO GO ABOUT ADDRESSING THESE PROJECTS, RATE BASED, UH, OR ASSESSMENT BASED.
UH, WE CAN BEGIN DRILLING DOWN IN DETAIL.
UM, ONCE WE FIND A PARTICULAR, UH, APPROACH THAT COUNCIL MIGHT PREFER OVER THE OTHER, UH, WE CAN BEGIN DRILLING DOWN IN DETAIL WHAT THOSE THINGS LOOK LIKE.
SO ONCE WE UNDERSTAND, UH, WHICH PATH THE COUNCIL WOULD LIKE TO GO, ONCE WE BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT THE FINANCIAL INVESTMENT IS THAT COUNCIL WOULD LIKE TO MAKE, AND WHAT ADDITIONAL RESOURCES MIGHT BE AVAILABLE, WE'LL BEGIN TO FACTOR IN AND LOOK AT THINGS SUCH AS, UH, WHAT GRANTS MIGHT BE AVAILABLE.
WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO PULL IN REVENUE FROM VARYING TIF DISTRICTS, UH, BASED ON SOME, UH, SOME ADDITIONAL WORK WE HAD DONE BY, BY LJB ENGINEERING.
SO THERE ARE A LOT OF OTHER WAYS THAT WE CAN BEGIN TO ASSIMILATE, UH, FINANCIAL INFORMATION TO HELP, UH, MAKE THESE THINGS, UH, MAKE THESE PLANS MORE PALATABLE AS WE MOVE FORWARD, UH, DOWN A SPECIFIC PATH.
BUT EFFECTIVELY, THERE'S EITHER ONE OF TWO WAYS TO GO ABOUT FUNDING THESE, THESE TYPES OF PROJECTS.
THE, UM, SO, UH, THAT'S WHERE WE SIT WITH RESPECT TO, UH, LONG-TERM POLICY OPTIONS.
UH, AND AGAIN, UH, AS I SAID TONIGHT, WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR, UH, WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR COUNSEL TO TAKE ANY ACTION.
UH, WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR ANYONE TO TAKE ANY POSITION ON THIS.
UH, WE'RE SIMPLY PUTTING THIS INFORMATION OUT ON THE TABLE SO THAT COUNCIL CAN BEGIN TO CONSIDER, UH, WHETHER OR NOT IT'S, UH, IT'S SITTING IN FRONT OF THE COMPUTER WHILE YOU'RE DOING RESEARCH OR, UH, DELIBERATING WITH FRIENDS OVER A CUP OF COFFEE OR WHATEVER THAT LOOKS LIKE.
UH, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS THE BEST STRATEGY IN YOUR OPINION GOING FORWARD? BECAUSE FUTURE DIALOGUE BETWEEN COUNSEL, UH, AND WITH STAFF IS GOING TO HAVE TO OCCUR, UH, SO THAT WE AS STAFF CAN, CAN RECEIVE THE APPROPRIATE DIRECTION TO MOVE THIS FORWARD.
UM, BUT ALSO WANNA MAKE SURE, UM, THAT, UH, COUNSEL AND THAT THE COMMUNITY ARE AWARE, WE'RE NOT JUST SITTING ON OUR HANDS WAITING FOR, UH, COUNCIL TO THINK ABOUT,
[00:25:01]
UH, WHAT THE FUTURE MIGHT HOLD OR WHERE WE MIGHT BE GOING WITH, UH, WITH POLICY, UH, ON HOW TO ADDRESS THIS PROBLEM.SO THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT WE ARE DOING HERE IN THE SHORT TERM, UH, TO CONTINUE TO ADVANCE THE INTERESTS, UH, OF COUNCIL AND DESIRE THE COMMUNITY.
UH, SO RIGHT NOW, UH, WE ARE CURRENTLY PUTTING PIPE IN THE GROUND AS PART OF THE 2022 REPLACEMENT PROGRAM.
UH, AND WE ARE ON SCHEDULE TO FINISH, UH, IN AUGUST OF THIS YEAR.
UH, WE'LL TAKE A BRIEF, UH, RESPITE, UH, FOR ABOUT A MONTH OR SO, AND THEN WE'LL START UP FOR THE, UH, 2023 IMPROVEMENT PLAN.
WE DO CURRENTLY REMAIN ON TRACK, UH, FOR THAT START IN, UH, IN SEPTEMBER.
UH, AND I BELIEVE THAT THAT PROJECT BUDGET, I BELIEVE, IS TO GO THROUGH APRIL OR MAY OF 2024.
UH, AND, UH, BEFORE WE CAN GET, UH, BEFORE WE CAN GET TO THE END OF THE 2023 PROJECT, UH, WE WILL BE BRINGING, UH, FORWARD, UM, A RESOLUTION ASKING COUNCIL TO AUTHORIZE A $6 MILLION WORTH OF ENGINEERING.
AND WHEN I SAY $6 MILLION WORTH OF ENGINEERING, THAT WOULD BE $6 MILLION WORTH OF PIPE IN THE GROUND.
UH, THE ACTUAL ENGINEERING COST WOULD BE SOMETHING CLOSE TO ABOUT $300,000.
SO WE'LL BE BRINGING A RESOLUTION TO COUNCIL, UH, ON THE 27TH, UH, TO AUTHORIZE US THE, UH, THE NECESSARY RESOURCES, UH, AND PROVIDE THE, UH, SPECIFIC DIRECTION TO BEGIN, UH, PUTTING, UH, PUTTING THIS ENGINEERING TOGETHER SO THAT, UH, WHEN THE 2023 PROJECT IS COMPLETE, UH, WILL BE IN A POSITION TO THEN PICK UP WITH, UH, THE NEXT PHASE, WHETHER OR NOT THAT IS A 12 MONTH PROJECT, WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S A, A SIX MONTH OR A A 18 MONTH PROJECT OR, OR SOMETHING LARGER.
UH, AND THEN ADDITIONALLY, UH, WE'LL HAVE LEGISLATION THAT ALSO PROVIDES FOR THE SCOPE OF WHAT THAT WORK MIGHT LOOK LIKE, SO WHAT THOSE STREETS ARE, UH, WHAT THOSE AREAS WILL BE SO THAT, UH, FOLKS CAN BEGIN GETTING A, AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHEN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD OR WHEN THEIR STREET MIGHT BE NEXT, UH, SO THAT, UH, THAT THEY CAN KIND OF PUT THAT PIN ON THE MAP WHEN, UH, WHEN THEIR WATER SERVICE MIGHT BE MORE, UM, MORE RELIABLE THAN WHAT IT HAS BEEN, UM, IN RECENT MONTHS.
SO THAT IS, UH, WHERE WE SIT, UH, TODAY, UH, MYSELF, KEVIN, UH, AND STAFF ARE HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT, UH, COUNSELING THE COMMUNITY MIGHT HAVE ABOUT ANY OF THE INFORMATION I'VE SHARED, AS WELL AS, UH, KEVIN'S PRESENTATION FROM, I BELIEVE IT WAS BACK ON THE 21ST.
SO, UH, YOU TO FLOOR TO YOU, SIR, AND, UH, WAIT FOR ANY QUESTIONS.
MY INITIAL QUESTION WOULD BE, UM, AND I APPRECIATE THE PRESENTATION, SO ENGINEERED AND READY TO GO WELL FOR, SO FOR SEPTEMBER.
SO ALL THAT IS ALREADY ENGINEERED.
CAN WE JUST TALK ABOUT REAL QUICK, RUSS, WHAT THOSE STREETS ARE? THAT'S GOING TO START IN SEPTEMBER, WHICH WILL BE THE SECOND PHASE.
DO, DO WE HAVE THAT AVAILABLE? I DON'T HAVE IT WITH YOU, BUT, UH, WE ARE FINISHED.
I KNOW THE, THE CURRENT PHASE ONE WILL BE DONE IN AUGUST, THEN WE SAID WE'RE GONNA BE STARTING PHASE TWO IS SEPTEMBER, SO I'M JUST, AND THAT'S ALREADY ENGINEERED, READY TO GO.
WE KNOW WE'RE GONNA START, WELL, IT'S ENGINEER, IT'S GONNA BE DONE IN ABOUT A MONTH, ENGINEERED.
THEN YOU HAVE TO BRING IT TO COUNCIL TO GO OUT THE BID.
AND, UH, THAT PIPE HAS ALREADY BEEN ORDERED, SO IT'S NOW TELLING ME AROUND A FIVE MONTH, IT'S FOUR TO FIVE MONTHS, FIVE MONTHS FOR FIRE HYDRANTS, UH, FOR DELIVERY TIME.
WE'RE ALREADY A MONTH, TWO MONTHS INTO THAT.
SO, SO WE'RE PRETTY CONFIDENT IT MAY COME A LITTLE EARLY SEPTEMBER.
WE'RE GONNA, YEAH, IT MAY COME A LITTLE EARLY AND WE CAN PUT IT DOWN AT THE PLAN IF WE NEED TO, OR, UH, POSSIBLY START THE PROJECT MAYBE LATER, EARLY IF WE WANT TO, BECAUSE IT, BUT IT MAY OVERLAP THE OTHER ONE.
UM, BUT, UH, WE WILL BE READY, UH, IN THE NEXT TWO OR THREE MONTHS TO, UH, WE'LL BE BIDDING IT OUT AND WE'LL GET A CONTRACTOR AND THEN WE'LL BE READY TO GO AND, UH, I CAN PUT A MAP ON THE, ON THE, UH, WEBSITE, IF THAT HELPS.
IF YOU COULD DO THAT, IF WE CAN GET SOMETHING UPDATED TO KNOW WHAT, WHAT PHASE TWO, IF THAT'S GONNA BE, OR WHAT'S BIDDING, WHAT'S BEING ENGINEERED, WHAT'S GONNA GO OUT TO BID, I THINK THAT WOULD HELP EVERYBODY.
IT'S ALL IN THE SAME AREA THAT WE'RE WORKING NOW.
UH, FIRST I'LL GO TO COUNSELORS, ANY, UH, DIRECT QUESTIONS OR IMMEDIATE QUESTIONS THAT COUNSEL HAS, AND THEN WE'LL KIND OF OPEN IT UP FOR RESIDENTS TO ASK QUESTIONS AND GET CLARIFICATION.
ANYTHING THAT'S, UH, THAT THEY HAVE OR WANT TO KNOW.
BRIAN, MAYBE YOU COULD HELP ME.
UM, OPTION ONE, TWO, AND THREE, COULD YOU TELL ME THE TIMELINE? SO FOR OPTION ONE IS 1.8 MILLION, WHAT'S THE TIMELINE TO, UM, AND THEN OPTION TWO, WHAT'S THEIR TIMELINE TO HAVE THAT $6 MILLION? HOW LONG WOULD THAT LAST? SO EACH, THE, EACH ONE THAT SURE.
THE, THE OPTION ONE, WHICH IS THE STATUS QUO THAT CURRENTLY EXISTS, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING NOW.
SO THAT'S AVAILABLE TO US, AND THAT WOULD BE IN PLACE, UM, THAT WOULD BE IN PLACE.
UM, EVERYTHING WHENEVER WE'RE READY.
THE, UM, THE OPTION TWO, THE, THE POLICY OPTION TWO, WHICH IS THE, UH, THE BURGESS AND NIEL PLAN.
UM, WE WOULD NEED, I WOULD SAY YOU WOULD NEED SEVERAL
[00:30:01]
MONTHS LEAD IN, UM, TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THE CASH AVAILABLE, TO HAVE THE REVENUE STREAM REPETITIVE, UH, BECAUSE OF THE, THE TYPE OF RATE INCREASE.SO WE WOULD BE ABLE TO BUILD YOU A MODEL OF TIME ONCE THAT WAS SOMETHING COUNCILS WERE ABLE TO LOOK AT AND DECIDE.
I DON'T THINK THAT, UM, COUNCIL, AND YOU MAY CHOOSE TO DO SO, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT COUNCIL WOULD WANT TO PUT IN A, A, YOU KNOW, A, A SIGNIFICANT RATE INCREASE IMMEDIATELY TO TRY AND GENERATE THAT TYPE OF ONGOING REVENUE IN A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.
THERE ARE THINGS THAT WE CAN DO, STOP GAP MEASURE WISE, UH, TO MAKE MONEY AVAILABLE SOONER RATHER THAN LATER.
BUT WE WOULD NEED TO KNOW WHATEVER PARTICULAR ROUTE YOU WANTED TO GO, UH, TO, TO DEFINE THAT STOP GAP MEASURE.
UH, WITH RESPECT TO THE, UH, OPTION THREE, WHICH IS THE ASSESSMENT BASED, UH, YOU'RE PROBABLY LOOKING AT SIX TO SEVEN MONTHS TO PUT ASSESSMENTS IN PLACE, AND THEN YOU'D BE LOOKING AT APPROXIMATELY ANOTHER SIX MONTHS BEFORE ASSESSMENT REVENUE WOULD ACTUALLY BE RECEDED DEPENDING UPON WHAT THE SCHEDULE WOULD LOOK LIKE ON THE CALENDAR.
BRIAN, CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE ASSESSMENT? I CAN IN GENERAL? UM, YEAH, YEAH.
WHAT WE WOULD DO IS, IN A GENERAL SENSE, THE ENGINEER WOULD PROVIDE AN OPINION OF PROBABLE COST BASED ON WHATEVER THE MARKET BEARS FOR THAT PARTICULAR MATERIAL.
THE ENGINEER WOULD PROVIDE THAT OPINION OF, UH, PROBABLE COST.
THE CITY WOULD THEN LOOK AT ONE OF THREE WAYS UNDER THE OHIO REVISED CODE, THAT THAT COST COULD BE SHARED BY ALL OF THE, THOSE PARTIES WHO DIRECTLY BENEFIT.
SO THOSE WOULD BE ALL OF THE PROPERTIES THAT IMMEDIATELY TOUCH THE ROAD OR ARE SERVICED BY THE MAIN THAT IS TO BE REPLACED.
THEN YOU WOULD TAKE THAT TOTAL COST AND YOU WOULD ALSO THEN DIVIDE THAT OVER THE YEARS OF SERVICE IN WHICH THAT PIPE, UH, WOULD BE GOOD.
LYON HAS A LIFE THAT GOES OUT QUITE SUBSTANTIALLY, BUT YOU MIGHT LOOK, UH, DEPENDING UPON WHAT THE COSTS MIGHT BE, YOU MIGHT LOOK TO PROVIDE THE, THE ASSESSMENT FOR 20 OR 25 YEARS.
SO IF, IF WE WERE TO DO OPTION TWO, WHY WOULD WE NOT CONSIDER THAT SAME STRATEGY OPTION TWO INSTEAD OF A HUGE RATE INCREASE? THAT IS, THERE IS NOT, YOU COULD USE LARGE, I'M TRYING TO THINK OF THE BEST WAY TO PHRASE THIS.
YOU COULD HAVE A FINANCE STRATEGY THAT IS LARGELY FOCUSED ON RATE INCREASES AND SUPPORTED BY ASSESSMENTS DOING THE $6 MILLION EVERY 18 MONTHS.
YOU COULD ALSO, ON THE, UH, ON THE CAST IRON REPLACEMENT PLAN, YOU COULD ALSO HAVE A FINANCE STRATEGY THAT IS LARGELY FOCUSED ON ASSESSMENTS, BUT ALSO SUPPLEMENTED BY SMALLER RATE INCREASES.
THIS IS NOT TO SAY THAT, SO NONE OF THESE OPTIONS ARE MEANT TO SAY THAT THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO FINANCE, BUT THESE PROPOSALS OR THESE POLICY KIND OF HIGH LEVEL VIEWS ARE MORE OF THE STRATEGY THAT WOULD BE THE PRIMARY FOCUS.
SO THAT'S, THERE'S NOTHING THAT WOULD PROHIBIT YOU FROM USING ONE OR THE OTHER, BUT JUST BASED ON THE, THE METRICS AND BASED ON THE FOCUS OF THAT PARTICULAR STRATEGY.
SO THE ASSESSMENT MAKES SENSE WITH REGARD TO FOCUSING EXCLUSIVELY ON THE CAST IRON, BECAUSE YOU ARE TARGETING A VERY SPECIFIC AREA.
IT'S A DEFINED AREA, THEY'RE DEFINED LOCATIONS AS OPPOSED TO OUR CURRENT STRATEGY WHERE WE ARE FOLLOWING THE VOLUME OF BRAKES.
SO IF AT ANY POINT IN TIME THE VOLUME OF, OF BRAKES MOVES, RIGHT? IF THERE'S A CHANGE IN LOCATION OF WHERE THESE BRAKES ARE OCCURRING, IT'S A LITTLE MORE DIFFICULT TO UTILIZE THE ASSESSMENT STRATEGY ONLY FROM THE STANDPOINT, UH, IT TAKES MORE TIME TO BUILD THOSE ASSESSMENTS.
IT TAKES MORE TIME TO PUT THOSE IN PLACE.
NOT THAT THEY CAN'T BE DONE, BUT IT TAKES MORE TIME FOR THEM TO BE PUT IN PLACE.
SO FOLLOWING UP ON THAT, IF, UM, SO BASICALLY THE ASSESSMENTS ARE APPLIED TO JUST THE PEOPLE THAT ARE AFFECTED WHEN THE REPAIRS OR REPLACEMENTS, WHATEVER YOU WANNA CALL 'EM, ARE MADE.
UM, DO WE HAVE AN IDEA OR WILL THAT BE PRESENTED ON THE 27TH
[00:35:02]
ON IF WE GO TO THE $6 MILLION EVERY 18 MONTHS, WHAT THAT RATE INCREASE WOULD BE? WE DO NOT.WE HAVE NOT, UM, WE'VE NOT PUT FORTH, UM, WE, WE'VE NOT PUT FORTH THE RESOURCES TO BEGIN DEEP DIVING ON ANY ONE OF THESE, JUST FROM THE STANDPOINT, UM, ONCE YOU GET INTO IT, YOU'RE INTO IT.
AND, UM, BUT, UH, WHAT I CAN SAY IS, IS THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, WE'RE LOOKING AT ENGINEERING.
SO IF COUNCIL WERE TO CONTINUE THE STATUS QUO PLAN, WE'VE EFFECTIVELY AT 1.8 MILLION, THE RESOLUTION THAT WE'RE ASKING YOU TO APPROVE ON AUGUST 27TH, YOU'VE NOW PRE-ENGINEERED THREE YEARS WORTH OF PROJECTS.
IF COUNCIL DECIDES TO IMPLEMENT 4 MILLION ANNUALLY, OR 4 MILLION EVERY 18 MONTHS, WHATEVER THAT LOOKS LIKE, UM, YOU'VE ALSO PRE-ENGINEERED MUL AT LEAST TWO PHASES OF THE PROJECT.
THE ENGINEERING THAT WE'RE ASKING YOU TO, UM, TO CONSIDER AND TO AUTHORIZE ON THE 27TH ISN'T GEARED TOWARDS ANY ONE PARTICULAR STRATEGY.
THE ENGINEERING NEVER GOES BAD, BUT IT EITHER ALLOWS YOU TO HAVE MULTIPLE OUT YEARS OF PLANNING.
IT ALLOWS YOU TO HAVE AN OUT YEAR OF PLANNING TO KEEP US, TO GET US AHEAD AND KEEP US AHEAD, OR IT BECOMES THE SPRINGBOARD TO LARGER, UH, LARGER ENGINEERING COMPONENTS IF, UH, IF COUNCIL WANTS TO ENTERTAIN A LARGER POLICY OPTION SUCH AS THAT, THAT IS PROPOSED IN A CAST IRON REPLACEMENT PLAN.
SO EITHER WAY, IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE GOING TO NEED AN ADDITIONAL STAFF PERSON IF WE GET OFF THE STATUS QUO.
I GUESS I'M, I'M JUST LOOKING AHEAD AT THE NEXT BRIEFING, AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE LOOKING FOR SOME KIND OF APPROVAL AT THE NEXT MEETING, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA NEED A LITTLE BIT MORE.
THE WAY THAT I WOULD ENVISION THE DISCUSSION WOULD BE THAT COUNSEL WOULD STEP AWAY FROM THE DIAS TONIGHT BASED ON WHAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, BASED ON WHAT, UM, KEVIN AND BURGS AND NYLE HAVE SHARED, AND WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO COME BACK.
UM, AND COUNSEL'S GONNA HAVE TO HAVE DISCUSSION AT THE, AT, AT THE DI AS A DEBATE ABOUT WHAT DIRECTION YOU WANT TO GO.
AND BASED ON WHATEVER THAT DISCUSSION IS, SOME ADDITIONAL QUESTION AND ANSWER FOLLOW UP WITH STAFF MAY BE, AGAIN, WITH, UH, WITH BURGS AND NYLE.
IF THEY NEED TO BE A PART OF THAT, THEN WE'LL GET THE DIRECTION ON WHICH WAY TO GO.
DO, DOES COUNCIL PREFER A RATE-BASED PLAN AND A RATE-BASED PROGRAM? DOES COUNCIL PREFER, UH, AN ASSESSMENT BASED AND TARGETED PLAN? THERE'S NO RIGHT ANSWER, THERE'S NO WRONG ANSWER.
BUT AT SOME POINT IN TIME, ONCE WE GET THAT DIRECTION FROM, UM, COUNCIL, ONCE WE GET THAT DIRECTION FROM, UH, FROM THE DIOCESE, WE, WE BEGIN TO KIND OF DEEP DIVE INTO, UH, WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE.
SO WE CAN PUT TOGETHER SOME, YOU KNOW, HIGH LEVEL PRELIMINARY NUMBERS, BUT THOSE ARE GOING TO BE, UM, YOU KNOW, THEIR ACCURACY IS, IS ONLY GOING TO BE AS GOOD AS, UM, YOU KNOW, RIGHT.
THE, THE TIME AND TIME EFFORT, ENERGY WE'RE AFFORDED TO BE ABLE TO PUT INTO THAT.
AND, YOU KNOW, THE MORE WE, THE MORE WE'LL DIG INTO IT, THE MORE ACCURATE WE'LL GET, BUT, OKAY, THANK YOU.
SO BRIAN, YOU SAID THAT, SO THIS IS $6 MILLION EVERY 18 MONTHS? CORRECT.
AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LEGISLATION ON THE 27TH, THAT'S FOR THE ENGINEERING, SO WE'RE NOT AUTHORIZING LEGISLATION TO SPEND 6 MILLION ON THE 27TH.
NO, THIS WILL BE, YOU'RE BRINGING FORTH THE, BECAUSE WHENEVER, WHATEVER STRATEGY WE USE, IT HAS TO BE ENGINEERED FIRST.
SO, SO HOW MUCH WAS THE ENGINEERING AGAIN, WHAT, WHAT'S THE LEGISLATION ON THE 27TH GONNA BE? YEAH, SO THE ENGINEERING ON THE 27TH IS DIRECTION TO ENGINEER, $6 MILLION WORTH OF IMPROVEMENT.
THE ACTUAL COST OF THE ENGINEERING AT THIS POINT, BASED ON PREVIOUS EXPERIENCES, APPROXIMATELY 5% OF THE ACTUAL CONSTRUCTION COST.
SO ABOUT THREE, YOU SAID THAT'S WHERE YOU GOT 300,000 AND THAT'S WHERE WE GOT THE $300,000 NUMBER? YES, THAT IS CORRECT.
SO THAT HAS TO HAPPEN FIRST BEFORE WE EVER DECIDE HOW TO SPEND THE MONEY.
SO THE 27TH IS WHY WE'RE ENJ REQUESTING ENGINEERING.
SO THAT PIECE STARTS SO WE DON'T FALL BEHIND ON BEING ABLE TO ENGINEER IT, ORDER PIPE.
BASED ON HOW WE RAISE THE FUNDS.
SO IF COUNCIL TAKES A LONGER TIME TO DECIDE ON WHAT THE, UM, OVERALL STRATEGY'S GOING TO BE, WE'VE STILL DONE SOME ENGINEERING, THERE'S STILL WORK THAT'S GOING TO BE DONE, WE'RE STILL GONNA BE ABLE TO PUT PIPE IN THE GROUND REGARDLESS OF WHERE WE FIND OURSELVES IN 6, 7, 8 MONTHS.
THAT'S THE POINT THAT WE WANNA BE ABLE TO DEMONSTRATE IS AT LEAST FROM THE STAFF'S PERSPECTIVE, WE ARE COMMITTED TO CONTINUE TO PUT SOME TYPE OF IMPROVED INFRASTRUCTURE IN THE GROUND ANNUALLY, EVEN IF IT IS UNDER THE STATUS QUO, UNTIL WE GET LONG-TERM POLICY DIRECTION FROM COUNCIL.
[00:40:01]
OKAY.YOU SAY THAT, YES, I NEED A, OKAY.
IN PAST, YOU'VE SAID IT'S 10% OF THE PROJECT FOR ENGINEERING, SO CORRECT.
JUST TO DO ONE CYCLE, WOULDN'T THAT BE $600,000? CORRECT.
SO YOU SAID $300,000 IS WHAT'S GOING IN FRONT OF US, SO WHY? CORRECT.
AND, AND I'LL DEFER TO THE ENGINEER BECAUSE I TOO WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT WE SHOULD BE PLANNING FOR 10% AND UH, THE ENGINEER ADVISED THAT NO, ON THESE PARTICULAR PROJECTS IT'S BEEN ABOUT 5%.
THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT HE'S SAYING.
UM, THE LAST COUPLE WE'VE DONE HAVE COME IN ABOUT 5%.
TYPICALLY FOR ENGINEERING PROJECTS YOU USE 10%, BUT WATER MAINS A LITTLE EASIER TO DESIGN THAN MOST OTHER THINGS, AND IT COMES IN CHEAPER.
CUZ 10% HAS BEEN SAID A NUMBER OF TIMES WHEN WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS.
10 PER 10% IS NORMALLY THE NUMBER WE USE WHEN WE'RE, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE HAVE, WE'RE TRYING TO, LET'S SAY WE WANTED TO BUILD A NEW BUILDING, WE WOULD USE 10%.
WE WANT TO CONSTRUCT A NEW FACILITY OF SOME KIND, WE WOULD USE 10%.
THAT IS GENERALLY THE RULE OF THUMP, WHICH IS WHY MY PREVIOUS COMMENTS HAVE BEEN, WE WOULD EXPECT TO SEND 10% TOWARDS ENGINEERING.
BUT IN THIS INSTANCE, AS I'VE SAID, THE ENGINEER HAS ADVISED THESE, THESE SPECIFIC PROJECTS HAVE BEEN AT 5%.
AND YOU AND I HAD DISCUSSED THAT WE WOULD DO TWO CYCLES OF THE SIX, UM, 18 MONTHS.
SO EVEN AT 5%, THAT WOULD STILL BE 600,000 THAT SHOULD BE COMING AHEAD OF US.
SO THAT WAY WE CAN BE AHEAD OF THE GAME WAS WHAT WAS DISCUSSED BETWEEN YOU AND I.
SO HAS THAT CHANGED? NO, IT, IT, IT HAS NOT.
UM, WHAT I CAN SAY IS THAT IS, UM, IN THE PREVIOUS DISCUSSION, I BELIEVE, I THINK THE NUMBER I SAID WAS, UM, I WANTED TO SAY THAT I THOUGHT THAT THE ENGINEERING WOULD COST ABOUT $120,000 AND QUITE FRANKLY, UM, THAT'S, THAT WAS 1% OF 12 MILLION.
SO TWO CYCLES WOULD BE 12 MILLION.
AND, UH, I HAD SAID 120,000 IN OUR CONVERSATION, UM, NOT REALIZING THAT, UM, AT THE TIME OF THE CONVERSATION THAT IT WAS 1%, NOT 10%, 10% BEING $1.2 MILLION.
SO NOT HAVING HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO FOLLOW UP, WE ARE HAPPY TO PUT WHATEVER NUMBER IS APPROPRIATE FOR COUNCIL OR PALATABLE FOR COUNCIL INTO THE LEGISLATION ON THE 27TH.
BUT BECAUSE I ERRED IN MY COMMENT, I DIDN'T WANT TO COMMIT ANY MORE THAN I THOUGHT WAS ABSOLUTELY APPROPRIATE.
AND QUITE FRANKLY, TO COME IN HERE AND TELL YOU THAT I HAD TOLD YOU ONE 20 AND NOW WE'RE AT 300, UM, WE'RE PREPARED TO DO THAT.
IF THE NUMBER IS 600,000 THEN, OR, UH, THEN THE NUMBER IS 600 THOU.
I MEAN, IT, IT'S WHATEVER COUNCIL WANTS THE NUMBER TO BE, TO ENGINEER WHATEVER COUNCIL WANTS ENGINEER.
SO IF WE SPEND 600,000 IN ENGINEERING, THAT'LL GET US 36 MONTHS WORTH OF, OF ENGINEERED PROJECTS, ENGINEERED PRODUCT FOR PIPE IN THE GROUND.
BUT THE FIRST OF THAT CYCLE WOULD START ON, I BELIEVE IT IS JULY 24TH.
THAT WOULD BE CYCLE ONE AND THEN 18 MONTHS LATER WOULD BE, UH, WOULD BE WHATEVER THE START OF THE SECOND CYCLE WOULD BE.
SO IT IT, SO IT'S NOT ANY INTENTION TO NOT MEET THE CONVERSATIONAL COMMITMENTS THAT WE HAD MADE PREVIOUSLY, BUT IT IS TO ACCOUNT FOR MY ERROR IN NOT CARRYING THE DECIMAL POINT.
SO I WOULD, I MEAN, AND CERTAINLY COUNSEL HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED THIS, AND THIS WILL BE PART OF THE, ON THE WORK SESSION AGENDA FOR THE 27TH.
BUT I'M, I THINK WHEN IT COMES TO THE ENGINEERING OF THIS, AND, AND I WOULD AGREE WITH ANITA, JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE AHEAD, I WOULD TOTALLY SUPPORT A $600,000 SPEND ON, UH, ON ENGINEERING WORK FOR, FOR A FULL 36 MONTH CYCLE.
IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 18 MONTHS.
I THINK THAT SHOWS THE COMMITMENT OF THE COUNCIL OVER A LONGER EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME.
WE'RE ENGINEERING THE PRODUCT AND, UH, BECAUSE WE, THAT'S NOT COMMITTING TO HOW, HOW THE FUNDS ARE ARE RAISED, BUT CERTAINLY HAVING THE ENGINEERED WORK DONE, YOU KNOW, I I HOPE THAT PIPE STARTS COMING IN SOONER THAN, THAN LATER, UH, FROM AN ORDERED TIME.
BUT I DON'T WANT TO GET BEHIND THE EIGHT BALL ANYMORE WHERE WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH ENGINEERED WORK TO BE DONE AND THEN IT COMES TIME TO ORDER PIPE AND NOW WE FIND OUT THERE IS A 12 MONTH WAIT ON PIPE.
I'M NOT SURE WHERE, WHERE THAT GOES OR IF ANY OF US CAN SEE IN THE FUTURE HOW THAT'S GONNA LOOK.
BUT I WOULD, I WOULD SUPPORT, UH, I WOULD SUPPORT ENGINEERING FOR, FOR A FULL 36 MONTHS OF WORK.
NANCY AND THEN RICHARD, UH, UM, WHEN WE SEE THE, UH, WILL WE SEE LEGISLATION ON THE 27TH FOR ANOTHER ENGINEER? SO THE ONLY, THE ONLY LEGISLATION THAT YOU WOULD SEE ON THE 27TH WOULD BE TWO PIECES
[00:45:01]
RELATED TO THIS PART, RELATED TO, TO THIS SUBJECT.THE ONLY TWO PIECES THAT YOU WOULD SEE RELATED WOULD BE, ONE, THE LEGISLATION TO AUTHORIZE THE ENGINEERING AND THAT AMOUNT REMAINS ENDOWED.
I THINK BASED ON THE CONVERSATION, THE MINIMUM THAT WE WOULD BE BRINGING FORWARD WOULD BE THE $300,000.
BUT IF THERE IS A DESIRE AND A PALLET FROM COUNCIL TO HAVE A, THE TWO FULL CYCLES, THEN WE WILL BRING THAT FORWARD.
AND THEN THE OTHER LEGISLATION THAT WE WOULD BRING FORWARD IS TO DIRECT THE ENGINEER TO PREPARE A PLAN ON HOW THOSE ENGINEERED PLANS WOULD BE IMPLEMENTED.
WELL, THEY JUST SAID, YOU JUST SAID FOR OPTIONS TWO AND THREE, IT WOULD REQUIRE ANOTHER ENGINEER.
SO IF WE, WELL, WE HAVEN'T DETERMINED WHAT THE FUNDING SOURCE YET, RIGHT.
WE DON'T HAVE ANY DIRECTION FROM COUNSEL AS FAR AS WHAT POLICY OPTION THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO GO.
ONCE YOU GET TO THAT POINT AND WE RECEIVE THAT DIRECTION, WE WOULD BRING FORWARD THE APPROPRIATE PACKAGES OF LEGISLATION, ONE OF WHICH WOULD BE TO HIM AMEND THE TABLE AT THAT TIME.
I, I'LL YIELD TO THE COUNCILMAN AUTO.
UM, I JUST HAD A QUICK QUESTION, BRIAN.
THE NUMBER 1.8 MILLION WAS MENTIONED A COUPLE OF TIMES.
AND WHAT, WHAT'S THAT REFERENCE? SO THE 1.8 MILLION, I BELIEVE, IS WHAT IS NOW WITHIN THE BUDGET BASED ON THE CURRENT RATE STRUCTURE TO BE DEDICATED TOWARDS WATER MAIN INFRASTRUCTURE.
IS THAT CORRECT, JIM? BASED ON THE, THE RATE INCREASES THAT WE'VE SEEN, YES.
IT HAD BEEN 1.3 MILLION COUNCIL DECIDED IN DECEMBER TO, UH, RAISE THE RATES ENOUGH TO, UM, BRING IN AN ADDITIONAL $500,000.
UH, SO ON FEBRUARY ONE, RATES WENT UP TO, UH, BRINGING AN ADDITIONAL $500,000 ON AN ANNUAL BASIS.
SO THAT 1.3 MILLION DEDICATED TO WATER MAIN BREAK, UH, REPLACEMENT IS NOW 1.8.
TO WATER MAIN BREAK REPLACE WELL WATER MAIN REPLACEMENT, UH, WORK.
AND THE REASON I ASKED IS BECAUSE LAST YEAR, IF I HAD MET MEMORY SERVES PROPERLY, WE HAD A BUDGET DISCUSSION AND, AND THE NUMBER THAT ENDED UP AT FOUR, FOUR AND A HALF MILLION FOR WATER MAIN REPLACEMENT FOR THAT YEAR, HOW ARE WE AT 1.8 NOW FOR THAT YEAR? YES, THAT IS CORRECT.
FOR THAT YEAR, EXCUSE ME, FOR THAT YEAR.
SO THIS PAST DECEMBER, WE UH, DECIDED WE WERE GONNA GO FOUR, FOUR AND A HALF MILLION, WHATEVER THAT NUMBER WAS FOR LAST YEAR.
1.84, WE, WE DID RAISE THE BUDGET TO 4.5 MILLION, BUT THAT INCLUDED A 2.7 MILLION ADVANCE FROM THE GENERAL FUND TO TEMPORARILY BRING IN ENOUGH MONEY TO THE WATER FUND THAT WOULD EVENTUALLY BE PAID BACK THROUGH BONDS OR SOME OTHER FINANCING SOURCE, UH, DOWN THE ROAD.
BUT, UH, SO THERE WAS, THERE IS IN THE BUDGET 2.7 MILLION TO ADD TO THAT 1.8 MILLION COMING TEMPORARILY FROM THE GENERAL FUND INTO THE WATER FUND.
SO WE DO HAVE A BUDGET OF 4.5 MILLION FOR THIS YEAR.
THAT'S, I JUST NEED TO CLEAR THAT UP.
YOU GOOD? DON DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING FOR, FOR, AND THEN WE'LL GO RICHARD OR RICHARD? YOU GOOD? UM, GO AHEAD.
UM, MAYOR, I JUST WANT TO CONFIRM WHAT WE'RE GONNA SEE, UH, SPECIAL LEGISLATION AT THE NEXT WORK SESSION IS GOING TO BE TWO CYCLES WORTH OF ENGINEERING.
UM, AND I, I BELIEVE THE AMOUNT WAS MENTIONED, UH, OF, OF $600,000.
UM, THAT KIND OF BRINGS ME TO A QUESTION FOR RUSS AND TO JIM.
UM, WOULD THIS BE AN OPPORTUNITY THAT COUNCIL WOULD USE A NOT TO EXCEED AMOUNT IF FOR ANY REASON THAT ENGINEERING COST DOES, UM, YOU KNOW, GO HIGHER OR LOWER THAN THAT? WOULD IT BE APPROPRIATE FOR THIS COUNCIL AS, AS THE UM, FINANCE DIRECTOR JUST MENTIONED, WE DO HAVE FOUR AND A HALF MILLION DOLLARS AVAILABLE TO THIS.
WOULD, UM, WOULD LEGISLATION, UM, AT THAT WORK SESSION BE, UH, FOR ENGINEERING COSTS NOT TO EXCEED $1 MILLION? JUST IN CASE ANYTHING DOES MOVE TO THAT, THAT DOESN'T SAY THE ENGINEER HAS TO USE ALL THAT, BUT THAT WAY IT DOESN'T HAVE TO COME BACK IN FRONT OF COUNCIL.
SO THOSE TWO CYCLES CAN BE COMPLETELY ENGINEERED WITH NO HICCUPS.
I MEAN, I GUESS NO, I RE I'M REALLY GLAD YOU SAID THAT CUZ I WAS GONNA ASK THE 300 I WAS GONNA, THAT WAS LAST YEAR'S PRICES, THAT WAS 5%.
IN CASE IT GOES UP, I WAS GONNA ASK FOR AT LEAST THREE 50 OR 400 EACH JUST POSSIBLY FOR INFLATION AND FOR THE FACT THAT I, I HAVE TO BRING IT BACK TO YOU.
SO, SO AM I NOT TO EXCEED IF $1 MILLION WOULD NOT BE, THAT'D BE GREAT.
RICHARD, I'D SUPPORT THAT AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE WOULD, WELL I WOULD LOOK TO SEE AT THE, AS AN AGENDA ITEM AT THE WORK SESSION ON THE 27TH.
TO MOVE FORWARD TO THE LEGISLATION, JIM.
AND THEN, UH, TO ADD TO THAT, UM, THE 4.5 MILLION THAT'S IN THE BUDGET NOW IS DEDICATED TO CURRENT PROJECTS.
SO I WOULD BE ADDING TO THE SUPPLEMENTAL WHATEVER DOLLAR AMOUNT YOU DECIDE.
AND I WOULD ALSO SUGGEST THAT THAT BE ONCE AGAIN, ANOTHER ADVANCE FROM THE GENERAL
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FUND INTO THE WATER FUND.CAUSE THE WATER FUND DOESN'T CURRENTLY HAVE THE RESOURCES FOR THAT.
AND UM, SO WHETHER THAT NUMBER IS 600,000, 800,000, 1 MILLION, WHATEVER THAT IS, LET ME KNOW TONIGHT AND I'LL, I'LL BUILD THAT INTO THE SUPPLEMENTAL FOR, UH, FOR MONDAY.
I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE RESOURCES WERE AVAILABLE TO THE ENGINEER, UM, WITH THE DIFFERENCES OF THE, OF THE NUMBERS, UH, FROM WHAT WAS DISCUSSED IN TONIGHT.
I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT EVERYTHING'S THERE.
SO WHEN COUNCIL PASSES THIS LEGISLATION, WE KNOW THAT WE'VE GIVEN PROPER DIRECTION AND ASSETS TO STAFF TO MAKE THAT MOVE.
DOES ANYBODY HAVE, DOES NOT TO EXCEED OF A MILLION DOLLARS, GIVE ANYBODY HEARTBURN.
SO IT'LL BE AN AGENDA ITEM ON THE WORK SESSION ON THE 27TH AND THE TOPIC WILL BE A MILLION DOLLAR NOT TO EXCEED NUMBER FOR ENGINEERED PRODUCTS PROJECTS FOR A 36 MONTH CYCLE.
THAT WOULD BE FOR THAT RESOLUTION.
AND THEN IT WOULD ALSO BE REFLECTED THE SUPPLEMENTAL, THE SUPPLEMENTAL PREPARATION LEGISLATION.
UH, BRIAN, THE ENGINEER WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HAS A RELATIVELY STABLE SHELF LIFE.
IT'S GOOD FOR A WHILE, RIGHT? WOULD I BE CORRECT IN ASSUMING THAT THERE IS SOME COST BENEFIT TO GETTING THAT ENGINEERING DONE? UM, AS UH, RICHARD AND OTHERS HAVE SUGGESTED GETTING IT ALL DONE UPFRONT AND EARLY.
UH, CAN WE SAVE SOME MONEY INSTEAD OF BREAKING IT UP INTO INDIVIDUAL PROJECTS OVER, UH, YES.
I MEAN ENGINEERING IS, IS BASED AS, IS A PERCENTAGE OF WHAT THE ESTIMATED, UH, CONSTRUCTION COST IS.
SO IF WE WERE TO LOOK AT, UM, IN MORE TRADITIONAL TIMES WE WOULD LOOK AT A 5% ESCALATOR ON CONSTRUCTION.
NOW OBVIOUSLY THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE SIGNIFICANT THAN 5%.
THEREFORE, IF WE WERE TO PROVIDE FOR THOSE ADDITIONAL CYCLES, UH, OF ENGINEERING NOW, UH, THE PERCENTAGE ON WHICH THOSE FEES ARE GONNA BE BASED IS GOING TO BE A LOWER COST THAN IF WE WERE TO WAIT THE ADDITIONAL MONTHS OR THE ADDITIONAL YEARS TO ENGINEER THAT SAME WORK.
SO THERE WILL BE A BENEFIT, UH, TO THE CITY TO ENGINEER THAT BULK WORK NOW RELATIVE TO KIND OF ENGINEERING AS WE GO.
ANITA, SO HOW MANY, RUSS THIS, THIS FOR YOU, HOW MANY STREETS OR AREAS DO YOU THINK 6 MILLION IS GOING TO GET US? UH, RIGHT NOW WE'RE DOING FOUR STREETS FOR 1.7 MILLION.
SO THREE TIMES THAT 12, MAYBE 13, 14 STREETS LEAST.
AND THOSE ARE SECTIONS, YOU KNOW, I CAN'T SAY THE WHOLE STREET, IF YOU SEE WHAT ABOUT WHAT WE'RE DOING NOW, IT'S GONNA BE ABOUT THE SAME AMOUNT, PROBABLY A COUPLE THOUSAND FEET OF THE STREET.
AND WE ARE FOCUSING ON AREAS THAT OBVIOUSLY ARE THE WORST.
AND SOMETIMES WE HAVE A, LIKE THERE'S A PIECE OF HOVER THAT WE'RE DOING TWO SECTIONS OF IS A PIECE IN THE MIDDLE THAT'S PRETTY LONG THAT'S NEVER HAD A BREAK IN 10 YEARS.
SO, AND IT'S BEEN PAVED A COUPLE YEARS AGO.
SO FOR THAT REASON I WAS AVOIDING THAT SECTION OF THE ROADWAY.
CAUSE I FEEL LIKE IT'S, THE PIPE MAY BE IN GOOD SHAPE.
SO, SO THAT'S WHY I'M SAYING I'M MOVING AROUND TO TRY TO GET THE WORST AREAS FIRST.
I'D LIKE TO DO THE FIRST COUPLE PROJECTS, FIRST COUPLE YEARS OF IT GETTING THE WORST OUT OF THE WAY SO THAT THE BRAKES WILL CUT DOWN AND, AND IT'LL BE EASIER FOR VIOLA TO NOT HAVE TO DO SO MANY BRAKE FOR REPAIRS.
NOW GOING THROUGH EVERYTHING, HOW MUCH DO WE USUALLY SPEND PER YEAR? ESPECIALLY SINCE 20 ON THE BRAKES? OH, ON THE BRAKES.
WELL, WE HAD ABOUT, TYPICALLY WE'RE NOW PROBABLY GONNA HAVE ABOUT 70 BREAKS A YEAR.
UH, IT'S ABOUT TWO TO 3000 PER BREAK.
WE HAVE, UH, LIKE NIGHT BREAK NOW AVERAGE OF 70 TO 75 BREAKS A YEAR AND UH, IT'S ABOUT TWO TO $3,000 PER BREAK TO REVEAL IT, TO REPAIR 'EM AND, AND ROUND NUMBERS, IF YOU SPLIT THE DIFFERENCE, IT'S 70 BREAKS A YEAR AT 2,500 BUCKS, IT'S $175,000 A YEAR.
BECAUSE I WAS JUST WONDERING WHEN WE THINK WE MIGHT GET AHEAD OF THAT CURVE.
SO SOME OF THAT MONEY CAN BE USED TOWARD THE REPLACEMENT IS WHAT I WAS TRYING TO GET ON.
WELL THAT MONEY THAT'S BEING SPENT, THAT 175 COMES OUT OF VEOLIA'S MAINTENANCE CAP THAT WE ALREADY, WE PAY FOR EVERY YEAR.
IT COMES OUT OF THAT AND THE MAINTENANCE CAP PER YEAR IS OVER A LITTLE OVER 200,000 I BELIEVE RIGHT NOW.
BUT AT SOME POINT IF WE GET AHEAD OF IT, WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO PAY THEM AS MUCH, I WOULD THINK.
UM, THE OTHER THING IS, BRIAN, SO WHEN ARE YOU WANTING US TO MAKE THIS DECISION AS TO THE ASSESSMENT VERSUS INCREASING
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RATES? THAT'S WHENEVER YOU'RE READY TO MAKE THAT DECISION.I, THAT'S NOT A BUS THAT I GET TO DRIVE.
SO WHEN ARE, WHEN ARE WE THINKING WE'RE GOING TO, WELL MEAN WE, WE CAN HAVE THAT DISCUSSION ON THE WORK SESSION AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
IT'S JUST A MATTER OF WELL WE NEED MORE INFORMATION.
YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK, YEAH, YOU KNOW, YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK WE HAVE TO DIG INTO WHAT, WHAT THE, THE ASSESSMENTS LOOK LIKE VERSUS WHAT THE RATE INCREASE LOOKS LIKE, WHAT THE TIMING LOOKS LIKE.
I MEAN, I THINK THERE'S, YOU KNOW, I MEAN IT'S NEVER TOO SOON TO START THAT DISCUSSION, BUT A DECISION ON THAT I THINK IS PROBABLY SOME TIME AWAY.
AND WE CAN, LIKE I SAID, WE CAN PUT TOGETHER SOME GENERAL INFORMATION.
WE CAN PUT TOGETHER SOME GENERAL SCENARIOS BASED ON, UM, BASED ON THESE POLICY OPTIONS, WE NEED A LITTLE BIT OF ADVANCED TIME TO DO THAT.
NOT MUCH, BUT WE NEED A LITTLE BIT OF ADVANCED TIME TO DO THAT.
AND WE COULD GIVE YOU SOME CRUDE ESTIMATES OF WHAT THESE POLICY OPTIONS MIGHT LOOK LIKE.
AND THEN THAT WOULD ENABLE YOU TO HAVE SOME OF THE DISCUSSION THAT YOU WOULD BE, THAT, THAT, THAT YOU'RE WANTING TO HAVE, UH, TO GIVE US ULTIMATELY DIRECTION ON WHICH POLICY, UM, ROAD YOU WANT US TO WALK DOWN.
MARK, UH, RUSS, IN REGARDS TO NEW RESIDENTIAL CONSTRUCTION, THE PIPES THAT ARE PUT IN THE GROUND ON NEW RESIDENTIAL CONSTRUCTION WOULD LAST HOW MANY YEARS IN TODAY'S PIPE? UM, DUCT IRON PIPE IS SAID TO BE 60 TO A HUNDRED YEARS.
BRIAN, WHEN YOU DO BRING THAT INFORMATION BACK FOR US TO DECIDE ON HOW WE'RE GOING TO FUND THIS, WILL IT INCLUDE, UH, ADDITIONAL REVENUE SOURCES MAYBE BASED ON THE LJB REPORT PRO? WE WOULD REFERENCE THAT ANY RATES THAT WE WOULD PROPOSE IN OUR WORK SESSION COULD BE BROUGHT DOWN BASED ON WHAT THOSE POTENTIAL REVENUE SOURCES LOOK LIKE, BUT WE'RE NOT, SO THE INFORMATION WE WOULD PROVIDE WOULD BE FOR THE PURPOSES OF, AT LEAST THE INITIAL PRESENTATION WOULD, WOULD BE SOLELY BASED ON THE FINANCING METHOD IN QUESTION, UM, BUT WOULD BE MODIFIED AS WE WENT FURTHER DOWN THE ROAD.
UM, ONCE YOU PICK THAT PARTICULAR OPTION.
MAYOR, YES, I WOULD SUGGEST HAVING THAT DISCUSSION AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
AND I WOULD ADVISE STAFF TO MAKE MODELS, WHATEVER YOU NEED TO TELL US WHAT TYPE OF ADDITIONAL REVENUE SOURCE OR STREAM WOULD BE NECESSARY TO OFFSET THE COST OF A RATE INCREASE.
SO BRIAN TIMEFRAME, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT COULD BE DONE IN, IN AP, UH, APRIL WORK SESSION OR, UH, YEAH, WITH A FEW WEEKS LEAD TIME WHEN IF WE HAD A, A SCHEDULED WORK SESSION IN APRIL, UM, WE'D BE ABLE TO PUT SOMETHING, UM, TOGETHER, UH, TO AT LEAST START THAT, START THAT DISCUSSION.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM COUNSEL BEFORE WE MOVE TO ONE OF THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS? YES, ED.
THANK YOU MAYOR BRIAN, I'M LOOKING AT THE NEAR ACTION, NEAR TERM ACTION ITEMS. OKAY.
JUST TO CLARIFY, THE 2022 REPLACEMENT PROJECT SCHEDULED TO BE FINISHED AUGUST 1ST OF THIS YEAR.
AND THAT WAS FROM LAST YEAR'S BUDGET.
AND I BELIEVE STEPH TOLD US THAT, UH, THE PIPING TOOK A LONG TIME TO ORDER AND THAT WAS WHAT THE DELAY WAS, WHY IT WASN'T DONE LAST YEAR AND THE PIPING WAS 10 MONTHS.
WELL, THERE WAS, THERE WAS SOME ADDITIONAL ISSUES WITH THAT PROJECT.
WE WENT INTO 2022 WITH THE IDEA THAT WE WOULD BE UTILIZING THE LINING, UM, THAT WE WOULD BE UTILIZING THE LINING, UH, TECHNOLOGY AGAIN.
UM, AND THAT WAS CHANGED, IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, AT THE END OF 2021, FIRST PART OF 2022.
AND WE, WE DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING ENGINEERED BECAUSE THE IDEA GOING INTO 2022 WAS LINING, SO YOU DIDN'T NEED TO ENGINEER THAT.
THE ENGINEERING WAS PART OF THE DELAY.
THE PIPE WAS ALSO PART OF THE, SO THE WATER MAIN PIPING, UM, WAS A PROBLEM.
SO WE WENT AHEAD AND ORDERED ADDITIONAL, SO WE HAVE ADDITIONAL PIPING TO BE ABLE TO USE.
DO I REMEMBER THAT CORRECTLY? ONCE WE KNEW THAT COUNCIL'S DIRECTIVE WAS TO ENGINEER MAIN REPLACEMENT, YES, WE ORDERED THE MAIN AS SOON AS ENOUGH ENGINEERING WAS DONE TO KNOW HOW MUCH AND THE APPROPRIATE SIZE OF MAINE THAT IS CORRECT.
AND UH, THEN THE 2023 REPLACEMENT PROJECT THAT WE PUT IN THE BUDGET FOR THIS YEAR, EFFECTIVE JANUARY 1ST, THAT'S ON SCHEDULE FOR SEPTEMBER 1ST
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OF THIS YEAR TO START, IS THAT AWARDING THE CONTRACT OR PUTTING PIPE IN THE GROUND? THAT'S ACTUAL CONSTRUCTION WORK BEGINNING SEPTEMBER 1ST, YES.WHICH WE HAVEN'T PASSED THAT LEGISLATION YET CURRENTLY FOR 2023, UH, REPLACEMENT PROJECT, CORRECT? CORRECT.
AND SO IF WE PASS THAT LIKE REAL QUICK, THE END OF THIS MONTH, WE'RE ONLY TALKING ABOUT APRIL, MAY, JUNE, I GOTTA COUNT APRIL, MAY, JUNE, JULY, AUGUST.
SO THAT'S FIVE MONTHS FOR THAT PROJECT TO START.
WHEN WE DIDN'T GET THE PIPING FOR 10 MONTHS LAST YEAR, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S BEEN A SUPPLY CHAIN BOON AND WE GET MORE PIPING, BUT THAT'S KIND OF INTERESTING TO ME.
UM, I THINK, BILL, JUST HANG ON.
ME, DID RUSS, I THINK YOU ORDERED THAT TYPE OF RATING, RIGHT? A BUDGET ISSUE AND WE HAD A CONVERSATION, IT WAS A LITTLE BIT OF A DISCUSSION ARGUMENT, BATTLE TYPE OF THING.
AND COUNCIL PUT ON THERE $4.5 MILLION THAT WE WOULD ALLOCATE TO BE ABLE TO USE FOR THE BUDGET FOR THIS YEAR'S WATER MAIN PROJECT.
AND SO IT WAS VERY CLEAR AND COUNCIL AGREED TO THE BUDGET.
OH, I WASN'T AT THE MEETING, BUT IT WAS SEVEN.
AND THAT WAS A PRIORITY FOR WATER MAIN REPLACEMENT THIS YEAR.
BUT WE HAVEN'T PASSED THE WATER MAIN PROJECT.
WE HAVEN'T SENT IT OUT TO BID, LIKE SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE IN JANUARY.
BUT IN JANUARY WE DID THE SIDEWALK REPLACEMENT PROGRAM, SO 4.5 MILLION IN THE BUDGET IN DECEMBER.
A LOT OF COUNCIL MEMBERS AND STAFF HAD PROBLEMS WITH THAT NUMBER BECAUSE WE WERE INCREASING AT 2.7 MILLION.
BORROWING IT FROM THE GENERAL FUND, UNDERSTAND THAT WE'LL PAY IT BACK POTENTIALLY SOME OTHER TIME AS WE, YOU KNOW, GO THROUGH THIS.
UM, NOW STAFF IS GIVING US BIGGER NUMBERS, WHICH IS GREAT.
MAYOR, I DO PLAN ON, YOU KNOW, SUPPORTING THIS OR ANYTHING THAT WE CAN GET A WATER MAIN REPLACEMENT PROGRAM STARTED, BUT BIGGER NUMBERS NOW AND STAFF WAS AGAINST IT IN DECEMBER.
SEVERAL COUNCIL MEMBERS WERE AGAINST IT IN DECEMBER.
SO, YOU KNOW, THIS JUST REALLY LOOKS TO ME LIKE WE'RE KICKING THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD.
THIS ISN'T A PRIORITY WHEN IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE IN JANUARY.
SO, UM, WATER MAINS ARE NOT GOING TO BE REPLACED BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T STARTED VOTING ON IT TO SEND IT OUT TO BID.
AND OH, BY THE WAY, THE BIDDING PERIOD IS JANUARY, FEBRUARY AND MARCH FOR CONTRACTORS.
SO WE'VE MISSED THE BIDDING PERIOD.
EARLIER YOU HAD MENTIONED THAT, SO THAT WE'RE A MONTH OR TWO AWAY FROM HAVING THE ENGINEERING FINISH TO GO TO BID, BUT WE KNOW HOW MUCH PIPE THAT'S GONNA BE.
SO YOU SAID
AT THAT TIME THEY TOLD ME EIGHT TO NINE MONTHS FOR DELIVERY.
AND THAT'S THE ZINC COATED PIPE.
AND THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I THINK IT TAKES A LITTLE LONGER THAN NORMAL PIPE.
SO WE'RE TWO TO THREE MONTHS INTO THE EIGHT TO NINE MONTH ORDERING WINDOW.
YES, BUT I'VE BEEN TOLD IT MIGHT GET A LITTLE FASTER.
SO 14,000 FOOT OF ZINC COATED EIGHT INCH WATER MAIN WAS ORDERED IN JANUARY.
SO THE LEGISLATION MR. LYES IS TALKING ABOUT IS ACTUALLY FINISHING THE ENGINEERING AND THEN THE, THE LEGISLATION TO PUT THAT OUT TO BID FOR THE CONTRACTOR? YES.
ONCE THE ENGINEERING IS DONE, YES.
ANITA, I'M SITTING HERE DOING SOME CALCULATING.
WE WERE TOLD BACK WHEN WE WERE DOING THE WHOLE BUDGET THING AND ADDING MORE TO THE BUDGET TO DO ENGINEERING FOR THAT 4.5 MILLION, WHICH WOULD BE ONE YEAR'S WORTH, IT WOULD BE $500,000 FOR THE ENGINEERING.
SO AREN'T WE EVEN LOW FOR 1 MILLION FOR 36 MONTHS? SO THE NUMBER THAT THAT CONVERSATION, IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, THAT CONVERSATION OCCURRED AT THE DIAS, I'LL, I'LL USE THE TERM ON THE FLY.
WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT HAVING TO INCREASE THE BUDGET BY THAT AMOUNT, I OFFERED THE NUMBER 10% BECAUSE THAT'S THE NUMBER THAT IS TYPICALLY THE RULE OF THUMB FOR ENGINEERING.
AND THAT'S WHY THERE WAS THE ADDITIONAL, I I BELIEVE THERE WAS THE ADDITIONAL DOLLARS FOR ENGINEERING.
THE MONEY IS THERE TO BE USED AND THE CITY PLANS ON USING IT, BUT WE CAN ONLY BID WHAT'S BEEN ENGINEERED.
THE MONEY WAS ONLY MADE AVAILABLE TO US APPROXIMATELY 90 DAYS AGO,
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AND COUNCIL WAS ALREADY OF THE DIRECTION TO ADVANCE THE WORK THAT WE WERE ALREADY DOING.SO TO BE CLEAR, WE WILL FOLLOW THE DIRECTION THAT WAS PROVIDED BY COUNSEL AS PART OF THE 2023 BUDGET, BUT OUR STAFF RESOURCES ARE NOT INFINITE.
AND OUR ABILITY TO ACCOMMODATE THE REQUESTS OF COUNSEL ARE LIMITED BY THE FACT THAT WE CAN ONLY ADDRESS WHAT HAS BEEN PROVIDED TO US AS A PRIORITY TO ADDRESS.
SO AT THE TIME THAT THE ADDITIONAL MONEY WAS ADDED TO THE BUDGET, THE PRIORITY WAS THE 2022 AND THE 2023 WATER MAIN PROJECTS IN THE TRADITIONAL SENSE AS WE KNEW THEM, THE FACT THAT COUNCIL PROVIDED ADDITIONAL MONEY IN THE 2023 BUDGET FOR WATER MAIN WORK WILL BE RECOGNIZED AND WILL BE REALIZED.
BUT WE CAN ONLY WORK WITHIN THE SCOPE AND CAPACITY THAT WE HAVE TO WORK.
SO RIGHT NOW, THIS IS THE DESIRE OF COUNCIL FOR US TO BE ENGAGED IN THIS DISCUSSION AND TO MAKE THIS A PRIORITY.
I BELIEVE THE DIRECTION WAS COME FORWARD AS QUICKLY AS WE CAN WITH MODELS AND PROJECTIONS ON WHAT THESE POLICY ANALYSIS MAY LOOK LIKE.
THERE'S OTHER WORK THAT IS REQUIRED TO BE DONE IN THE CITY BY THE ENGINEER AND HIS LIMITED STAFF.
SO WE APPRECIATE AND RECOGNIZE THE FACT THAT COUNCIL HAS GIVEN US THE ADDITIONAL RESOURCES TO PUT MORE PIPE IN THE GROUND.
AND AS SOON AS WE CAN MAKE THE APPROPRIATE TIME AVAILABLE TO ENSURE THAT THE ENGINEERING THAT IS INCLUDED IN THE 11TH HOUR AS PART OF THE 2023 BUDGET CAN BE COMMISSIONED, WE WILL DO SO.
SO I WANT TO BE CLEAR THAT WE ARE WORKING AS QUICKLY AS WE CAN BASED ON THE RESOURCES WE HAVE TO ADDRESS THE PRIORITIES THIS COUNCIL HAS GIVEN US IN THE ORDER THAT THEY HAVE GIVEN US.
YEAH, IT WASN'T THAT I WAS TRYING TO DO THAT.
I WAS JUST TRYING TO SAY DO WE HAVE ENOUGH OF $1 MILLION TO GO INTO ENGINEER 36 MONTHS WHEN WE WERE TOLD IN DECEMBER THAT IT WAS 500,000 TO DO 4 MILLION, THAT'S WHERE I WAS GOING WITH THIS.
IT WASN'T THAT I WAS TRYING TO DO THE OTHER, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE ENOUGH GOING INTO THIS LEGISLATION TO DO 36 MONTHS.
AND THAT IS AGAIN, BECAUSE IN DECEMBER WHEN WE HAD THAT CONVERSATION ON THE FLY, I WAS USING THE 10% OF CONSTRUCTION COST AS THE ENGINEERING NUMBER, WHICH IS WHY IT WAS $500,000.
IT WASN'T ONLY UNTIL THE LAST FEW DAYS WHEN THE ENGINEER AND I WERE HAVING A DISCUSSION TO ENSURE THAT WE WOULD BE BRINGING FORWARD THE APPROPRIATE INFORMATION THAT HE HAD GIVEN ME THE NUMBER THAT AT LEAST ON THESE PARTICULAR PROJECTS, THAT THE ENGINEERING'S ACTUALLY CLOSER TO 5% AND NOT NEAR 10%.
SO THAT'S WHY THOSE NUMBERS ARE DIFFERENT.
THAT'S WHERE I WANTED TO GO AT TO MAKE SURE WE HAD ENOUGH ON THE LEGISLATION FOR THE 27TH.
SO 5% WOULD BE THE 600,000, THOUGH WE HAVE A 400,000 BUFFER IF WE DO ENOUGH TO EXCEED OF A FOUR OF, OF A MILLION.
UM, BRIAN, YOU, UH, AND TALKING ABOUT THESE TWO OPTIONS, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, UH, UH, UTILIZING RATE INCREASES OR UM, OR ASSESSMENTS.
UM, I, YOU'RE GONNA BE BRINGING THOSE NUMBERS.
I'M SURE YOU'RE GONNA WORK THOSE UP.
UM, BUT IN ADDITION TO, WILL YOU BE EXPLORING OPTIONS LIKE LOOKING INTO OUR TIF FU TIF FUNDS, OUR TIF POTS TO SEE WHAT WE GOT SITTING THERE? UH, WE'VE HAD MANY DISCUSSIONS IN THE PAST HOW THOSE FUNDS CAN BE UTILIZED FOR INFRASTRUCTURE.
WILL, WILL YOU BE SEEING HOW WE CAN OFFSET POSSIBLY THESE COSTS TO RESIDENTS USING SOME OF THOSE TIF FUNDS OR OTHER TYPES OF FUNDING ALONG THOSE LINES? WHAT I CAN TELL YOU IS THAT YES, WE WILL BE UTILIZING WHICHEVER OPTION COUNCIL MIGHT CHOOSE.
WE WILL BE UTILIZING TAX INCREMENT FINANCING RESOURCES AT SOME POINT IN TIME TO FACILITATE, UM, TO FACILITATE KEEPING THE EXPENSE, UH, AS LOW AS WE CAN.
WE WON'T BE ABLE TO PROVIDE EARLY ON IN THESE DISCUSSIONS.
WE WON'T BE ABLE TO PROVIDE THOSE CALCULATIONS.
AND JUST, QUITE FRANKLY, BASED ON HOW COMPLEX AND COMPLICATED THESE THINGS GET, WHAT I CAN SAY IS YES, WE WOULD LOOK TO USE, UH, TAX INCREMENT FINANCING.
WE WILL LOOK TO USE, UM, LOW INTEREST LOANS IF POSSIBLE.
WE'LL LOOK TO USE GRANT FUNDING IF POSSIBLE THROUGH WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S THROUGH, UH, ISSUE TWO, WHETHER OR NOT IT'S THROUGH, UH, THE, UH, OHIO, UM, OH GOSH, I CAN'T THINK OF THE ACRONYM, BUT THE OHIO WATER, UM, THE EPA, YOU KNOW, THE O EPA OR, OR WHOMEVER.
SO THOSE ARE RESOURCES YOU CAN'T COUNT ON DEFINITIVELY BECAUSE THOSE ARE GRANTS ARE COMPETITIVE.
UM, LOANS ARE, UM, YOU KNOW, LOANS ARE, ARE, UM, YOU KNOW, CONDITIONED ON THE, THE AMOUNT OF RESOURCES AVAILABLE FROM THE LENDER, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.
UH, THERE'S QUALIFYING CONDITIONS WHEN IT COMES TO, UH, COMMUNITY METRICS.
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WE WILL LOOK TO CONSIDER THOSE, UH, AS WE MOVE DOWN, DOWN, UH, THESE PARTICULAR PATHS.BUT THEY'RE NOT CALCULATIONS THAT I WOULD RECOMMEND, UH, WE TRY TO INCLUDE BECAUSE IF WE WORK ON THE FRONT END AND ERRONEOUSLY ESTIMATE IN AN EFFORT TO DRIVE COSTS DOWN, AND WE ARE WRONG, THE CONSEQUENCE OF BEING WRONG ON THE LOW END AND THE OUTCOME BEING THE HIGHER NUMBER IN MY OPINION, IS MORE DETRIMENTAL THAN IF WE ESTIMATE THE HIGH NUMBER AND DELIVER A LOWER NUMBER.
AND, AND WHEN I REFER TO TIFFS, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT, AND I, I I DON'T BELIEVE YOU ARE, BUT I WANNA MAKE SURE I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT ESTABLISHING A NEW TIFF.
I'M, I'M TALKING ABOUT UTILIZING MONIES WE GOT COMING IN.
FOR EXAMPLE, WE, UH, NOT LONG AGO EXTENDED A TIFF FOR ANOTHER 30 YEARS THAT WAS SAID TO, UH, GONNA BE BRINGING IN 45 TO 60 MILLION OVER A 30 YEAR PERIOD OR SO.
IS THAT THE KIND OF MONIES WE COULD BE USING FOR PEP PROJECTS? YES, THEY TOLD BEFORE THEY COULD BE.
THERE ARE MULTIPLE KINDS OF TAX INCREMENT FINANCE DISTRICTS.
AND DEPENDING UPON WHICH DISTRICT, WHICH TYPE OF DISTRICT WE'RE LOOKING TO UTILIZE, DEPENDS ON THE LATITUDE THAT THAT MONEY CAN, UM, THAT MONEY CAN BE USED.
THE, THERE IS A STUDY, AS I HAVE REFERENCED, WE DID COMMISSION A STUDY FROM L J B TO CLARIFY FROM AN INDEPENDENT THIRD PARTY'S PERSPECTIVE WHAT INFRASTRUCTURE SUPPORTS THE VARIOUS TAX INCREMENT FINANCE DISTRICTS THROUGHOUT THE CITY.
THOSE WOULD LARGELY BE THE RESIDENTIALS AS OPPOSED TO THE LARGE COMMERCIAL DISTRICT THAT EXISTS ALONG EXECUTIVE.
THAT STUDY ENABLES US TO USE RESOURCES FROM THOSE PARTICULAR DISTRICTS OUTSIDE OF THE DISTRICT BECAUSE THAT STUDY DEFINES HOW IN HOW VERY SPECIFIC INFRASTRUCTURE DIRECTLY BENEFITS THOSE DISTRICTS.
SO WE HAVE THOSE FUNDS AVAILABLE, WE HAVE THE RESOURCES NECESSARY TO UTILIZE THOSE FUNDS WHEN THEY ARE AVAILABLE, BUT WE WILL NEED TO RUN ADDITIONAL CALCULATIONS OVER TIME TO DETERMINE WHEN AND HOW MUCH RESOURCES WILL BE AVAILABLE TO US TO USE WHEN THE TIME COMES.
AND I ASKED BECAUSE IT WAS STATED THAT THE TIME THAT THOSE, UH, THOSE MONIES, UM, COULD BE USED FOR A INFRAS, UH, PROJECT, LIKE A WATER INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECT BECAUSE IT BENEFITED THE CITY AS A WHOLE, WHICH ENCOMPASSED THAT AREA OF THAT TIFF.
SO, YOU KNOW, UM, THAT THEY COULD BE USED.
AND, AND THAT WAS, THAT'S BEEN STATED IN THE PAST.
SO I MEAN, IF THOSE MONIES CAN BE, I'D RATHER DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT THAN LOOK AT, UH, CRANKING RATES WAY UP OR, I, I DON'T REALLY LIKE THE IDEA OF ASSESSMENTS CUZ THAT'S PUTTING A VERY LARGE BURDEN ON FOLKS WHO ARE IN AN AREA OF THE COMMUNITY WHERE THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT LARGE, EXPENSIVE HOMES TO BEGIN WITH.
AND, AND THAT ASSESSMENT COULD BE VERY LARGE.
SO ANYWAY, JUST THE QUESTIONS.
I'M TRYING TO THINK OUTSIDE OF THE BOX TO GET TO SOME OTHER MONIES.
I DON'T WANNA BE TAPPING INTO PEOPLE'S WALLETS AND WE DON'T HAVE TO.
BRIAN, IF I REVIEWED AND UNDERSTOOD THE L G B STUDY, IT SIMPLY INDICATES THAT YOU CAN TAKE TIF REVENUE FROM NORTH OF 70 AND SPEND IT SOUTH OF 70.
AND, AND WE PAID FOR THAT STUDY TO BE COMPLETED COMMISSIONED.
ANYTHING ELSE FROM COUNSEL? NOT TO SAY THAT OTHER CONVERSATION MIGHT NOT COME UP, BUT ANYTHING AT THE MOMENT.
SO THIS TIME WE'D INVITE ANYONE WHO'D LIKE TO COME TO THE PODIUM AND ASK THE QUESTION OR, UH, CLARIFY INFORMATION.
WE'VE GOT AGAIN, STAFF HERE, COUNSEL'S HERE, UM, MR. KEAL FROM THE ENGINEERING FIRM
SO, UH, ANYTHING THAT ANYONE HAS, PLEASE, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO COME FORWARD AND WE'LL DISCUSS WHATEVER CONCERNS YOU HAVE.
WE JUST ASK YOU TO STATE YOUR NAME.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO TELL US WHERE YOU LIVE OR NOTHING LIKE THAT.
LINDA MOR UH, THE CURRENT PHASE ONE PIPES, YOU SAID THE ONES THAT WERE ORDERED THE 14,000 FEET ARE ZINC COATED PIPES.
WHAT ARE THE CURRENT PHASE ONE THAT ARE BEING INSTALLED? ZINC COATED.
WHEN WE REPLACE THESE PIPES, THE WATER PRESSURE, UH, INCREASE AND THE WATER SOFTENING CAUSED SOME OF, CAUSED THESE PROBLEMS. WHEN YOU REPLACE THE PIPES, THAT'S GONNA PUT ADDITIONAL PRESSURE ON OLDER PIPES ELSEWHERE, CORRECT? NO, IT'S NOT.
NO, WE'RE NOT GONNA HAVE ANY PROBLEMS. WON'T BE ANY DIFFERENT.
DO WE KNOW WHY, UH, WARD FOUR HAS
[01:15:01]
SUCH A PROBLEM? UH, THE ONLY THING WE CAN TELL IT'S FROM IS CORROSIVE SOILS IN THAT AREA.UH, COULD HAVE BEEN BAD PIPE THAT WE GOT WHEN HUBER PUT IT IN THE BACKFILL USED.
A LOT OF TIMES THEY JUST, EVERYTHING UP THERE, HE IS PRETTY MUCH JUST USED NATIVE SOIL THAT CAME OUT, EXCAVATED MATERIAL THAT CAME OUT OF THE TRENCH THEY THREW BACK IN.
WE SURROUND THE PIPE WITH GRAVEL AND WE USE GRAVEL AS A BACKFILL.
SO THE MONEY THAT RESIDENTS HAVE BEEN PAYING IN ALL THESE YEARS TO OUR, FOR OUR WATER, WHY WAS THERE NO REPLACEMENT PLAN? I MEAN, NOBODY THINKS PIPES ARE GONNA LAST FOREVER.
UM, WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO ALL THAT MONEY? BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY IT'S NOT BEEN PUT INTO TO A PLAN TO REPLACE.
AS A MATTER OF FACT, I THINK WE DRAFTED QUITE A BIT OF MONEY OUT OF THE WATER FUND, UH, A FEW YEARS AGO.
SO WHY WAS THIS MONEY NOT SET? WHY HAVE WE NOT BEEN IN A REPLACEMENT PLAN? BECAUSE IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING CORROSIVE SOIL IS A NEW IDEA.
UH, I'VE BEEN ABLE TO FIND, UH, STUDIES ON IT THAT GO BACK, UH, INTO THE SIXTIES.
SO WHY WERE WE NOT LOOKING TO REPLACE THIS? WE HAVE, UH, WE STARTED IN 2010.
WE STARTED REPLACEMENT PROGRAM AND AS I'VE SAID, A PROGRAM TYPICALLY IS TAKING ABOUT 18 MONTHS TO GET THROUGH THE WHOLE PROCESS.
SOME OF THAT WAS PIPE DELIVERY, BUT BACK THEN WE WERE STILL ONLY DOING A PROGRAM ABOUT ONCE EVERY TWO TO THREE YEARS.
AND AT THAT TIME THEY WERE ONE TO 2 MILLION PROJECTS.
SO, AND WE DO HAVE A MAP THAT SHOWS THE, THE PIPES THAT WE HAVE REPLACED.
MOST OF 'EM ARE JUST SOUTH OF THE AREA.
CAUSE THAT'S WHERE WE WERE HAVING MORE BREAKS AT THAT TIME.
WHAT HAPPENED TO THE MONEY THAT WE DRAFTED OUT OF THE WATER FUND AT THAT TIME? WE HAD BUDGETED FOR THOSE PROJECTS.
I MEAN, WHATEVER THE, OUT OF THE WATER FUND TO DO THAT REPLACEMENT? NO, IT DID NOT GO TO REPLACEMENTS THAT I REMEMBER, BUT I DON'T REMEMBER WHERE IT WENT.
CAN SOMEONE UN COUNCIL REMEMBER? UH, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT AS FAR AS WATER BEING OR MONEY BEING DRAFTED OUT OF THE WATER FUND.
I MEAN, WE HAVE AN OPERATING BUDGET.
I'VE BEEN HERE SINCE, UH, LATE 2011.
SO FOR THE LAST, UH, 11 PLUS YEARS.
AND THERE HAS BEEN NO, AS YOU CALL THAT THERE'S GONNA BE NO EXCESS THAT WAS TAKEN AND USED ELSEWHERE OTHER THAN NO WA WATER REVENUES THAT COME IN BASED ON USER FEES HAVE TO BE USED FOR WATER PROJECTS.
THEY CAN'T BE USED ON SOME OTHER PROJECTS.
YOU, THE WAY WE USE FUND ACCOUNTING, YOU HAVE TO USE THE FUNDS THAT COME INTO THAT FUND FOR PROJECTS IN THAT FUND.
I, I CAN'T TAKE WATER MONEY AND USE IT IN THE SEWER FUND.
I CAN'T TAKE SO DOES IS NEW INFRASTRUCTURE, CAN IT BE USED FOR THAT? LIKE IF THERE'S, WHEN THE OAKS WERE BUILT, DID THE CITY LAY WATER INFRASTRUCTURE DOWN AND IS THAT WHERE THAT MONEY FOR THAT COMES FROM? THAT THAT'S ALL PAID FOR BY THE DEVELOPER? EVERY DEVELOPER IN THIS CITY WHENEVER A DEVELOPMENT YEAH.
EVERY DEVELOPER WITHIN OUR CITY LIMITS HAS LAID THEIR OWN INFRASTRUCTURE WITHOUT MONEY FROM THIS CITY.
I MAY BE WRONG, LINDA, BUT I BELIEVE THAT WE'VE MOVED MONIES FROM WATER FUNDS INTO THE CARRIAGE TRAIL INFRASTRUCTURE FUND IN THE PAST TO, UH, FUND INITIAL DEVELOPMENT.
I THINK THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO.
SO WHY ARE WE HAVING TO PAY FOR THEIR INFRASTRUCTURE AND NOW WE HAVE TO PAY TO REPLACE OUR OWN.
CAN YOU SAY, ASK THAT AGAIN? WHY ARE, WHY DID WE PAY TO PUT IN THEIR WATER INFRASTRUCTURE AND NOW WE ALSO HAVE TO PAY TO REPLACE OUR OWN? YOU WANNA PUT IT, YOU EITHER WANNA JACK MY RATES UP, WHICH ARE ALREADY RIDICULOUS, WHICH QUITE FRANKLY, THE WATER SOFTING PROJECT, I'M SORRY, I COULD REPLACE MANY COFFEE POTS A YEAR FOR THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT I AM NOW PAYING BECAUSE OF THE WATER SOFTENING PROJECT.
SO THAT DON'T, THAT WAS, THAT'S NOTHING THAT THRILLS ME TO BEGIN WITH.
BUT WHY DO WE NOW HAVE TO PAY FOR, TO REPLACE OUR, OUR INFRASTRUCTURE WHEN THE MONEY THAT HAD BEEN BUILT UP WAS PAID TO FOR THEIRS, LET THEM PAY FOR OUR INFRASTRUCTURE, WE PAID FOR THEIRS? WELL, I, I CAN COMMENT ON THAT.
UM, ANY, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE ARE ANY RESIDENTS IN THE ROOM THAT ARE FROM THE CARRIAGE CHARLES DEVELOPMENT, BUT THEY HAVE SIGNIFICANTLY HIGH ASSESSMENTS IN THAT DISTRICT.
SO THEY ARE PAYING FOR THEIR INFRASTRUCTURE.
AND WHEN THAT MONEY COMES BACK TO THE CITY, IS IT GOING BACK INTO THE WATER FUND
[01:20:01]
OR IS IT BEING USED ELSEWHERE? IT IS, IT IS TEMPORARILY BEING PUT INTO THE TIFF FUNDS THAT, UH, WAS SET UP FOR THAT.AND, UM, THERE IS PORTIONS EACH YEAR.
YOU CAN LOOK IN OUR BUDGET REVENUES.
THERE ARE PORTIONS THAT COME IN AS ASSESSMENTS THAT ARE, UH, SET IN THE WATER FUND, SEWER FUND, UH, THE ROAD FUND.
SO THEY'RE, THEY ARE SEPARATED AS THEY COME IN.
BUT THE WATER MONEY, WHEN IT COMES BACK FOR THE ASSESSMENT FOR THE WATER INFRASTRUCTURE UP THERE, IT GOES BACK INTO THE WATER FUND.
THERE'S NO MONEY FOR REPAIRING OR REPLACING CURRENT, UH, INFRASTRUCTURE.
YOU'VE GOT A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE SOUTH OF 70 THAT HAVE BEEN PAYING A LOT OF YEARS FOR WATER AND YOU'VE GOT A BUNCH OF PEOPLE IN WARD FOUR THAT HAVE DIRTY WATER BECAUSE EVERY TIME THERE'S A WATER MAIN BREAK, THERE'S A BOIL ADVISORY OR THERE SHOULD BE.
AND NOW YOU'RE TELLING US YOU WANNA ASSESS OUR HOMES OR JACK OUR WATER PRICES UP EVEN HIGHER.
I, I'M SORRY, I'M, I'M I'M ABSENT SIR, REAL QUICK.
SO I MEAN, THESE ARE STAFF MEMBERS, RIGHT? SO I THINK QUESTIONS, THIS IS NOT MEANT TO BE AN INTERROGATION.
WE'RE GONNA TRY TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS, BUT QUESTIONS THAT WOULD GO TO STAFF BRIAN, I THINK CAN HANDLE A, A LOT OF THOSE QUESTIONS.
I MEAN, I THINK, YOU KNOW, CUZ EVERY DECISION THAT'S MADE UP HERE HAS EITHER BEEN FROM THIS COUNCIL OR FROM PREVIOUS COUNCILS AND THE STAFF IS DOING WHAT THIS COUNCIL AND PREVIOUS COUNCILS HAVE BEEN TOLD TO DO BASED ON LEGISLATION.
SO A DIRECT INTERROGATION OF STAFF MEMBERS DOING WHAT COUNCIL HAS DIRECTED, I THINK IS, IS QUITE UNFAIR FOR THIS PARTICULAR, BUT IT IS GETTING INFORMATION OUT TO CITY RESIDENTS THAT ARE LISTENING TO THIS LIVESTREAM THAT MAYBE IN THE PAST HAVE NOT PAID ATTENTION.
AND THAT'S, AND THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS, BUT I THINK QUESTIONS EITHER DIRECTED TO COUNSEL OR TO THE CITY MANAGER TO BE ABLE TO DETERMINE WHAT THAT LEGISLATION IS.
HE OFFERED TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS.
BUT THE BUT THAT WAS A DIRECT LINE OF QUESTIONNAIRE AND I'M NOT HERE TO ARGUE.
I'M JUST TRYING TO SAY, I THINK THE, THE LINE OF QUESTIONING FOR STAFF MEMBERS SHOULD BE GOING TO COUNCIL OR TO, OR TO THE CITY MANAGER.
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH OUR MONEY AND WHY ARE YOU NOW WANT WANTING TO COME TO US FOR MORE? YOU WANT US TO RENEW AN INCOME TAX AND YOU WANT TO ASSESS OUR HOMES OR RAISE OUR WATER RATES? DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE GONNA STAY IN THIS CITY? THAT PEOPLE ARE GONNA WANNA COME TO THIS CITY? SO I THINK THAT, I THINK YOU NEED TO LOOK AT YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES.
CLEAN WATER GOVERNMENT IS NOT HERE.
IT'S FOR SAFETY AND UTILITIES LIKE THE WATER, BECAUSE YOU ALL OWN THE WATER.
NOT TO DEVELOP PROPERTIES, NOT TO BE REAL ESTATE AGENTS.
AND THAT'S WHAT I HEAR A LOT OF HERE INSTEAD OF TAKING CARE OF INFRASTRUCTURE.
WHAT WAS THE, AND AND I'D HAVE EITHER ASK YOU OR JIM, LIKE WHEN THE LAST ASSESSMENT OR WHEN THE LAST MOVEMENT OF CITY MONEY WENT TO, UH, WENT TO CARRIAGE TRAILS OR WHATEVER, THOSE, THE DIFFERENT DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENTS HAVE STARTED IN PLACE BACK IN EARLY TWO THOUSANDS, UP THROUGH 20 17, 20 16, CORRECT? YEAH.
THE, THE CITY HAS, UH, A SERIES OF AGREEMENTS THAT DATE BACK, I BELIEVE IT IS TILL 2006, 2007.
IT WAS RECONSTITUTED WITH DECK WHEN THEY PURCHASED WHAT WAS BENCH ROCK, UH, AND THE CITY BASED ON THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THAT AGREEMENT, THE CITY LENT IS THE BEST WAY TO DESCRIBE IT.
THE CITY LENT DECK, UM, RESOURCES, FINANCIAL RESOURCES TO CONSTRUCT, UH, THE, TO, TO PUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE IN THE GROUND TO SUPPORT THAT, THAT DEVELOPMENT UNDER THAT AGREEMENT, WHICH IS A PUBLIC DOCUMENT DECK, HAS A RESPONSIBILITY TO REPAY THE CITY OVER A NUMBER OF YEARS.
THE CITY IS NOW DONE LENDING ITS RESOURCES TO DECK, BUT DECK NOW HAS THE RESPONSIBILITY TO BEGIN REPAYING THOSE RESOURCES TO THE CITY AND WILL CONTINUE TO REPAY THOSE RESOURCES TO THE CITY.
UM, OVER TIME, I BELIEVE THE FINAL PAYOUTS AROUND 20 35, 20 34.
SO WE WILL CONTINUE TO RECEIVE THOSE REVENUES BACK TO THE CITY.
SO WE WERE THE, WE WERE THE BANK AND WE LENT TO THEM UNDER TERMS AND CONDITIONS, AND THEY ARE NOW REPAYING THE LOAN TO THE CITY AND THEY WILL CONTINUE TO PAY THROUGH 2034.
THE MONIES THAT WERE LENT TO DECK WILL BE RETURNED TO THEIR RESPECTIVE FUNDS OVER TIME.
[01:25:01]
WILL HAVE THE BENEFIT OF THE ASSOCIATED INTERESTS OR OTHER FEES THAT WERE ASSOCIATED WITH THOSE LOANS, UM, DURING THE COURSE OF, OF THAT AGREEMENT.SO THE MONEY THAT WAS LENT WILL BE RETURNED TO THE CITY WITH RESPECT TO WHY THE RATES ARE WHAT THEY ARE.
UM, I WOULD ENCOURAGE FOLKS, AND WE'LL PUT THIS INFORMATION ON THE WEBSITE, I WOULD ENCOURAGE FOLKS, UH, TO VISIT THE WEBSITE AND THEN NEAR FUTURE, UM, WE WILL BE POSTING INFORMATION FROM, UH, WHAT IS A REGIONAL UTILITY RATE, UH, SURVEY THAT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR DECADES.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE INFORMATION, UH, WHEN IT'S AVAILABLE, YOU WILL NOTE THAT HUBER HEIGHTS LEAD IS ONE OF THE LEADING COMMUNITIES IN THE LOWEST UTILITY RATES FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS.
SO THIS ISN'T AN ISSUE THAT THE CITY ACCUMULATED ALL OF THIS MONEY AND WAS NOT FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE WITH IT.
THE CITY MADE AN INTENTIONAL DECISION THROUGH IT.
IT SET A A, AN INTENTIONAL PATH THROUGH ITS POLICY DECISION TO TRY AND MAINTAIN THE LOWEST UTILITY RATES WITHIN THE REGION FOR AS LONG AS POSSIBLE.
WE ARE NOW, WE'VE NOW COME TO THE POINT WHERE WE'VE HAD THE BENEFIT OF LOW RATES FOR NUMEROUS YEARS, BUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT PROVIDES THAT SERVICE NOW BE, NEEDS TO BE REPLACED.
AND IN EXCHANGE, IN ORDER TO HAVE THE RESOURCES TO BE ABLE TO REPLACE THAT INFRASTRUCTURE, WE NOW HAVE TO BEGIN RAISING RATES.
SO I HOPE THAT THAT ANSWERS THE QUESTION.
I THINK THE, THE, THE, THE CHUNK OF THE QUESTION, I THINK THE, THAT YOU WERE TRYING TO, TO PUT FORWARD AND THAT, THAT, THAT'S YOUR, I DON'T THINK GONNA, A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT DO, DO, I CAN ONLY OFFER THE INFORMATION THAT I CAN OFFER.
WHETHER OR NOT YOU CHOOSE TO BELIEVE IT, UM, IS UP TO YOU.
GLENN, UM, I DON'T, I WANT TO CLARIFY, I DON'T WANNA SOUND LIKE I'M SPLITTING HARRIS BRIAN, BUT, UM, THAT MONEY THAT WAS LOANED, UM, AND SOMEBODY CAN CORRECT ME IF MY NUMBERS ARE OFF, BUT I WANNA SAY THE TOTALITY OF THE WHOLE PROCESS WAS 10, 11 MILLION OVER TIME, UM, IS NOT BEING DIRECTLY REPAID BY THE DEVELOPER, BUT RATHER THE PROPERTY OWNERS AS THAT IS DEVELOPED.
SO THE, THE NEW HOMEOWNERS ARE REPAYING THAT LOAN, JUST, JUST TO CLARIFY.
AND I THINK THE WHOLE AGREEMENT CAME ABOUT BECAUSE OF THE ROAD, RIGHT? I MEAN, THAT WAS THE, THAT WAS THE MAIN THING ON THE, ON THE INVESTMENT SIDE UP THERE WAS BECAUSE OF, WELL, AT THAT POINT WAS THE OLDER DEVELOPMENT OF BENCH, UH, BENCH ROCK OR WHATEVER IT WAS, THAT ROAD WENT IN AND THE AGREEMENT, THE REASON THAT AGREEMENT WAS MADE IS BECAUSE THEY TOOK OVER THAT FINANCING OF THAT WHAT WINDS UP BEING A 12 MILLION ROAD PROJECT.
IT'S MY UNDER, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE, THE YES, THE DRIVING FACTOR WAS THAT, UM, AT THE TIME THAT THE ROAD WAS CONSTRUCTED, IT WAS CONSTRUCTED TO SUPPORT WHAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE BENCH ROCK DEVELOPMENT.
AND THAT DID NOT MATERIALIZE BECAUSE OF, UH, THE RECESSION.
AND, UM, DECK AGREED TO TAKE ON THE, THE FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITIES FOR THOSE DEBTS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT ROAD.
AND IN EXCHANGE FOR THAT, UH, THERE WERE THE CONDITIONS THAT THE, THE CITY WOULD, WOULD LEND AT THE RESOURCES TO HELP PUT IN THE PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE THAT'S UP THERE.
ANYTHING ELSE FROM COUNSEL? OKAY.
ANYONE, ANYONE ELSE LIKE TO COME TO THE PODIUM? HELLO, I'M JAMIE LUK, UM, WARD 6 73 20.
UH, JUST THREE QUESTIONS HERE REAL QUICK.
THE FIRST ONE IS ON THE SUCCESS METRIC.
WHEN YOU SAY LIKE, 20 BREAKS PER A HUNDRED MILES IS THE DESIRE, WHAT'S THE TIME UNIT ASSOCIATED WITH THAT? I MEAN, IS THAT PER YEAR, PER DECADE, PER MONTH?
AND THEN FOR POLICY TWO, UM, IS THAT REALLY JUST FOCUS ON OUR CURRENT INFRASTRUCTURE HERE AND WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE, YOU KNOW, FOR IMPROVEMENTS? OR DOES THAT, IS THAT TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT THE, UH, GROWTH AND THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT'S GONNA BE REQUIRED BY THE PLANNED, YOU KNOW, HOUSING DEVELOPMENT HERE GOING FORWARD? FOR THE INITIAL PURPOSES OF THE PRESENTATION AND FOR STARTING THE, THE DISCUSSION, THE IDEA IS THAT, UM, ALL THINGS ARE CONSTANT.
SO LET'S SAY, UM, SO AS AN EXAMPLE, AND CLEARLY
[01:30:01]
AS AN EXAMPLE, WE WOULD PUT FORWARD, LET'S SAY A RATE INCREASE OF 40% HAS TO HAPPEN OVER A PERIOD OF TIME.FOR THE INITIAL DISCUSSION, WE WOULD NOTE THAT THE RATE INCREASE WOULD GO 40% AND IT WOULD MAINTAIN AT 40%.
THE IDEA BEING THAT AS GROWTH OCCURS WITHIN THE SYSTEM, THERE ARE COST INCREASES ASSOCIATED WITH OPERATIONS OVER TIME BASED ON INFLATION.
SO THE NEW GROWTH WOULD EFFECTIVELY COVER THE INFLATION AREA COSTS AND THEREFORE THE RATE METRICS COULD REMAIN CONSISTENT OVER TIME.
THAT WAS OUR APPROACH, OR THAT WOULD BE OUR APPROACH IN SOME OF THESE INITIAL PRESENTATIONS.
BUT AGAIN, AS WE GET MORE SPECIFIC DIRECTION AND THERE'S A COMMITMENT TO A POLICY STAFF AND I WOULD THEN WORK TO GET MORE SPECIFIC AND MAKE MORE DETAILED PROJECTIONS, FINE TUNING THOSE FIGURES OVER TIME.
AND THEN JUST THE LAST QUESTION, I, I DON'T REMEMBER WHEN WE DID THE PRESSURE PROJECT NORTH OF 70, HOW WAS THAT FUNDED? UH, THAT WAS BEFORE MY TIME, BUT I BELIEVE THERE WAS AN O D W A, WAS IT A LOAN GYM THAT YES.
WE HAD LOANS FOR THAT AND THE, UH, ALL RIGHT.
BUT YOU KNOW, I GUESS THE POINT IS THAT THE CITY IS A WHOLE PAID TO TO DO THAT.
AND YOU KNOW, I LIVE IN WARD SIX, SO IT DOESN'T AFFECT ME, BUT YOU KNOW, IT'S SOMETHING WE NEEDED TO DO, OBVIOUSLY THE CITY.
SO, YOU KNOW, WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IS THAT I THINK, UM, YOU KNOW, WITH THE PRESSURE PROJECT THAT WAS DONE NORTH OF 70, THE CITY ALL CHIPPED IN FOR THAT.
IF YOU GO WITH POLICY THREE HERE, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS WARD FOUR, YOU'RE ON YOUR OWN.
AND I THINK THE OPTICS OF THAT'S REALLY BAD.
SO I THINK WE REALLY NEED TO COME UP WITH A WAY FOR THE CITY TO COVER THE WARD FOUR WITH EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON THERE, YOU KNOW, AND LIKEWISE, IF SOMETHING COMES UP WITH SOME OTHER WARD IN THE FUTURE, WE DO IT THAT WAY TOO.
AND I THINK FROM READING THE ROOM, I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT MOST OF THIS COUNCIL WOULD AGREE, THAT THAT'S PROBABLY NOT THE RIGHT WAY TO GO.
YES, JIM? I JUST WANTED TO MAKE ONE ADDITIONAL COMMENT ON THE LAST GENTLEMAN'S, UM, UH, STATEMENT.
THE, UH, THE CITY DID NOT JUST, UH, GO AND PAY FOR THE, UM, WATER SOFTENING AND THE, UH, THE LOANS THAT WE GOT FOR THE WATER SOFTENING AND FOR THE, UM, UH, WATER PRESSURE, UH, YOU MIGHT REMEMBER BACK IN 2019 AND 2020, THERE WERE 10% RATE INCREASES IN EACH OF THOSE YEARS TO COVER THE DEBT PAYMENTS THAT WE HAVE TO, THAT ARE NEW THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE BEFORE THOSE TWO PROJECTS.
SO THAT, THAT IS BEING COVERED BY ALL THE RESIDENTS AND BUSINESSES AND THOSE LOANS.
DON'T WE HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF RESERVE THAT HAS TO BE, UM, KEPT IN THE WATER FUND BASED ON THE AMOUNT OF AMOUNT OF DEBT FROM IT'S FOR WATER BONDS THAT WE HAVE, BUT NOT FOR THOSE LOANS IN PARTICULAR? NO.
BECAUSE THOSE LOANS ARE BEING COVERED BY, WHAT WAS THE RATE INCREASE THAT HAPPENED TO COVER? SO THE WHOLE CITY COVERED WATER THAT WAS WHAT? 12, 13 MILLION WATER PRESSURE AND WATER SOFTENING? UH, I THINK IT WAS CLOSER TO 15 MAYBE.
OR WAS IT 13? YEAH, 10 AND THREE.
ANYONE ELSE LIKE TO COME TO THE PODIUM PLEASE? HI, I'M STEVE ZENDAN.
UM, MOST OF YOU KNOW WHO I AM.
UH, I KEEP HEARING ABOUT THIS CORROSIVE SOIL.
WHAT, WHY IS THE SOIL SO CORRO SO CORROSIVE? IS IT OLD LANDFILL? IS IT, UH, THE PH, IS IT AN OLD PINE FOREST? UM, WHAT, WHAT'S MAKING IT SO CORROSIVE? I MEAN, I DRIVE BY THE VALLEY CREST LANDFILL EVERY DAY THAT THEY'RE A SUPERFUND SITE THAT THEY'RE REMEDIATING.
AND IT JUST GOT ME THINKING THAT, UM, I KNOW WE BUILD A SCHOOL ON TOP OF AN OLD CONCRETE PLANT.
I JUST WONDERED IF THAT'S WHAT WE DID WITH WARD FOUR.
BUILD IT ON TOP OF A LANDFILL OR SOMETHING.
SO WHY IS IT SO CURSIVE, MR. CAMPANELLI? SO PART OF THE, THAT STUDY, I KNOW YOU TALKED A LOT ABOUT CURSIVE SOILS AND YOU HAD THE MAP AT THE LAST PRESENTATION.
IS THIS SOMETHING YOU COULD SPEAK TO KIND OF WHAT, WHAT THE ISSUE IS OR WHERE IT COMES FROM? YES.
UH, MAYOR GORE, MEMBERS OF COUNSEL AND LIEUTENANT GENTLEMAN THAT ASKED THE QUESTION, UM, THAT INFORMATION IS BASED OFF OF THE NATIVE SOIL.
SO IT'S NOT BASED OFF OF ANY MANMADE, UM, WHETHER IT'S LANDFILLS OR, UH, OTHER CONTAMINATION.
SO THE INFORMATION ACTUALLY COMES FROM, UH, THE UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE.
THEY MAINTAIN A SOIL DATABASE.
THEY HAD DONE, UH, YEARS AND YEARS OF TESTING IN ORDER TO COMPILE THE INFORMATION THAT'S IN THAT DATABASE.
AND SO, UH, IT'S MAINLY BASED ON THE MINERALS.
UH, THE SOIL IS VERY MINERAL RICH.
THERE ARE A LOT OF METALS THAT ARE IN THE SOIL AND THINGS THAT INTERACT WITH THE OUTSIDE SURFACE OF THE PIPE.
SO THE CORROSION IS FROM THE OUTSIDE IN.
UH, IT'S VERY TYPICAL THAT THAT HAPPENS IN ANY WATER SYSTEM.
IT'S JUST THAT, UH, IN THIS AREA IN PARTICULAR AND REALLY THROUGHOUT OHIO, UH, WITH THE CLAY SOILS AND MINERAL RICH SOILS, THAT, THAT, UH, IT'S A CHEMICAL PROCESS THAT THAT IS, UH, JUST
[01:35:01]
NATURAL.UM, AS THE CITY ENGINEER MENTIONED, THERE'S BEEN A RECOGNITION OF THAT.
AND I BELIEVE IT WAS BACK IN THE MID 1970S THAT THEY CHANGED THEIR BACKFILLING PRACTICES.
SO IN OTHER WORDS, WHEN THEY, UH, MADE A DUG A TRENCH TO LAY THE PIPE, RATHER THAN CONTINUING TO PUT THE NATIVE SOIL BACK ONTO THAT PIPE, THEY WOULD PUT GRAVEL AROUND THAT PIPE TO PROTECT IT FROM THE NATIVE SOILS.
BUT THAT'S THE SOURCE OF THAT INFORMATION.
SO IT WASN'T LIKE ACTUAL SOIL SAMPLES FROM THE SITE, IT'S FROM YOUR DATABASE.
THOSE ARE BASED ON SAMPLES THAT TOOK PLACE.
UM, I, I, I WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE, UM, U S D A, UH, INFORMATION TO SEE WHEN THEY WERE TAKEN, BUT THEY WERE ACTUALLY BASED ON SOIL BORINGS THAT WERE TAKEN IN THE PAST.
WELL, I, I JUST WAS CONCERNED CUZ IF YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IT IS, THEN YOU KNOW HOW TO FIGHT IT.
BUT SOUNDS LIKE YOUR DATABASE GIVES YOU THAT.
UM, SO I JUST WANTED TO COME UP TONIGHT.
I AM THE CHAIR OF THE CULTURE AND DIVERSITY COMMISSION.
UM, AND I JUST WANNA SPEAK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY THAT THIS COULD BECOME AN ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE ISSUE.
SO IF RESIDENTS OF OUR COMMUNITY BELIEVE THAT THEIR WATER IS UNSAFE TO DRINK, TO BATHE IN, TO USE FOR PURPOSES OF COOKING, I'M NOT SAYING THAT IT IS, BUT IT COULD BE.
SO THAT'S SOMETHING TO CONSIDER.
I DID SPEAK WITH SOMEONE AT N D R P C.
THERE IS A GRANT THAT IS AVAILABLE.
I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S EVEN SOMETHING THAT WE COULD APPLY FOR, BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT.
UM, SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT POTENTIALLY WE COULD APPLY FOR TO SEE IF THERE WOULD BE FUNDS AVAILABLE TO USE TOWARDS AN INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECT.
UM, ALSO, I KNOW THE EPA HAS GRANTS AVAILABLE, SO PLEASE KEEP THOSE, YOU KNOW, KEEP THOSE THINGS IN MIND AS WELL BECAUSE WE DO NOT WANT THIS TO BECOME A SITUATION WHERE IT DOES BECOME AN ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE ISSUE.
ANYONE ELSE PLEASE? GOOD EVENING, KEVIN CARTER.
UM, OKAY, THIS IS GOING TO BE KIND OF A CRAZY TALK HERE CUZ IT'S, EVERYTHING'S ALL OVER THE PLACE.
FIRST THING I'D LIKE TO ASK, UH, MR. CZECHOWSKI, OVER THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS, WE AS RESIDENTS HAVE HEARD OR SEEN COMPARISONS OF OUR WATER RATES AND SEWER RATES TO EVERYBODY AROUND US.
AND AGAIN, WE SEE IT AGAIN TONIGHT.
WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IS I HAVEN'T SEEN ANY COMPARISONS OF WHAT THEY'RE DOING FOR THEIR FIXES, BECAUSE ALL I HEAR HERE IS RAISE RATES, UH, IMPOSED ASSESSMENTS, WHICH I THINK IS, AS I MENTIONED, UH, BACK LAST MONTH WHEN I SPOKE, IS COMPLETELY LUDICROUS TO IMPOSE IT JUST ON HOMES THAT ARE FED BY THE, BY THOSE WATER LINES.
SO I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHAT ARE OTHER CITIES DOING TO CORRECT THEIR WATER MAIN ISSUES? ARE ANY OF THEM, INSTEAD OF RATE INCREASE RATE INCREASE, IS ANYBODY CUTTING ANYTHING LIKE MAYBE A CITY HALL OR A CIVIC CENTER THAT'S NOT REALLY NEEDED RIGHT NOW? COULD WE DELAY THAT AND USE MONIES ACT THAT'S FOCUSED FOR THAT AND APPLY IT OVER? SO THAT HASN'T BEEN A METRIC THAT WE'VE LOOKED AT AT THIS POINT IN TIME, BUT IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT COUNCIL WOULD LIKE FOR US TO DO, WE'RE HAPPY TO DO THAT.
GENERALLY SPEAKING THOUGH, IT IS NOT CONSIDERED A SOLID BUSINESS PRACTICE FOR A MUNICIPALITY TO INVEST GENERAL FUND DOLLARS TO SUPPORT ITS ENTERPRISE, UH, ENDEAVORS.
THAT'S JUST A, A GENERAL PRACTICE.
NOT THAT IT ISN'T DONE, NOT THAT IT CAN'T BE DONE, BUT JUST NOT A GENERAL PRACTICE.
BUT WHEN CIRCUMSTANCES BECOME ABNORMAL, SOMETIMES WE NEED TO LOOK AT THINGS DIFFERENTLY.
AND I'M WONDERING IF ANYONE IS GOING TO ACTUALLY GIVE THAT CONSIDERATION THAT, I MEAN, YEAH, I PICKED ON THE, ON CITY HALL, WHAT ABOUT EXPANSION TO THE EAST? WHAT KIND OF INVESTMENTS DO WE HAVE GOING ON THERE? WHAT KIND OF INVESTMENTS DO WE HAVE IN FURTHER EXPANSIONS TO THE NORTH? IS IT TIME TO PUT A STOP TO THAT AND FOCUS BACK ON WHERE WE'RE AT RIGHT NOW? SO THOSE ARE ALL POLICY DIRECTIONS THAT I GET FROM COUNSEL AND BASED ON THE DIRECTION THAT I'VE RECEIVED TODAY, THOSE
[01:40:01]
AREN'T ITEMS THAT WE AS STAFF HAVE BEEN ASKED TO CONSIDER AS WAYS TO FUND THESE PARTICULAR MEASURES.UM, I, UM, I CAN RESPECT, UM, YOURS AND OTHERS' POSITIONS ON ASSESSMENTS.
UM, MY JOB IS TO MAKE SURE THAT COUNSEL HAS ALL OF THE INFORMATION, UM, TO MAKE THE BEST DECISION THAT THEY CAN.
AND THE PURPOSES OF TONIGHT'S DISCUSSION IS NOT TO ADVOCATE FOR ONE PARTICULAR POLICY METHOD OVER ANOTHER, BUT TO MAKE THEM AWARE OF THE FACT THAT THOSE ARE OPTIONS AVAILABLE TO THEM WHEN MAKING THEIR POLICY DECISION.
SO I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE IS AWARE THAT AT THIS POINT IN TIME, STAFF ISN'T ADVOCATING IN ONE PARTICULAR WAY OR ANOTHER, ONLY TO MAKE SURE THAT COUNCIL HAS THE INFORMATION AVAILABLE TO THEM.
ON WHAT OPTIONS ARE AVAILABLE.
AND THEN A QUESTION AND A SUGGESTION, UM, I KIND OF GOT DISCOMBOBULATED A LITTLE BIT WHEN I HEARD WHAT WAS, HAS BEEN IN THE PAST ALWAYS BEEN EXPRESSED AS A 10%, UH, COST FOR ENGINEERING COSTS AND NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN IT'S 5% AND THEN WE ADD IN, WELL IT KIND OF DEPENDS ON WHAT KIND OF JOB IT IS THAT WITH COUPLED WITH, WE SAW A PRESENTATION OF 1.8 MILLION THAT WAS INCREASED FROM 1.3 MILLION, BUT YET IN SOME DISCUSSIONS, WELL NO, IT'S 4.5 MILLION.
SO NOW I'M SEEING NUMBERS THROWN ALL OVER THE PLACE.
AND THEN WE ADD IN SOME OF THE DISCUSSIONS WHERE YOU SAID, WELL, I, I TOOK MY DECIMAL POINT OFF TO THE SIDE, IT WASN'T AIR.
I THINK WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS PUT EVERYTHING THAT'S BEING DISCUSSED ON PAPER SO THAT IT'S NICE AND CLEAR IN FRONT OF EVERYBODY'S EYES BECAUSE TRYING TO GO BACK AND RESEARCH THIS MEETING PREVIOUS MEETINGS TO FIND OUT WHERE ALL THESE NUMBERS ARE COMING FROM.
AND THEN WHAT WE'RE HEARING HERE TONIGHT, WE NEED TO GET A VERY CLEAR AND CONCISE SCOPE SO THAT EVERYBODY HAS A COMPLETE BREAKDOWN.
AND THEN NOW WE TAKE AWAY, WELL THAT SAID THIS BACK IN, YOU KNOW, THE 10%, 5% SCENARIO IS A, IS A PERFECT SCENARIO.
FOR EXAMPLE, LET'S ELIMINATE ALL THAT AND LET'S PUT EVERYTHING OUT CLEAR AND CONCISE ON PAPER SO THAT EVERYBODY HAS A CHANCE TO READ IT AND THEN TALK WITH THEIR REPS, WARD REPS AND SO FORTH.
THAT WOULD BE A SUGGESTION THAT I HAVE.
NOW WE'RE GONNA GET BACK TO SOME OF THE PIPES.
AND THIS IS WHERE I AM REALLY, REALLY CONFUSED.
WE HEAR WHAT PIPE IS IN, WHAT PIPE ISN'T IN WHAT PIPE IS COMING, WHAT ARE WE ORDERING? I'VE GOT YOU IN A WRITTEN COMMENT, MR. GORE STATING THAT WE HAD ALL OF THIS UM, ZINC COATED PIPE.
I'VE GOT YOU MR. BROMAN SAYING WE GOT THE WRONG PIPE, BUT WE'RE GOING TO WRAP IT IN PLASTIC.
THEN I HEAR WE'RE GOING TO GO AHEAD AND PUT IN THESE IN CODED PIPE.
WHAT PIPE IS GOING IN AND WHAT PROJECT, BECAUSE IN YOUR STATEMENT YOU SAID ALL JOBS GOING FORWARD WILL BE ZINC.
A MONTH AND A HALF LATER YOU ARE ON TAPE SAYING WE ORDERED A DIFFERENT KIND OF PIPE, BUT TO COMPENSATE, WE'RE GONNA WRAP IT IN PLASTIC.
NOW WE'RE ALL QUESTIONING, IS THAT PLASTIC EVEN GOING TO BE LEGIT? IS IT GOING TO HAVE THE, WHAT IF IT'S TORN? WHAT PIPE ARE WE GETTING? OKAY, THE ONLY ONE THAT'S NOT, UH, RIGHT AT THE MOMENT ZINC CODED IS THE MARDI GRAS PROJECT.
IT WAS 1500 FEET OF PIPE, UH, IT WAS HAD BEEN DELAYED AND WE WERE, WE'D HAVE, WE HAVE GRANT MONEY FOR THAT, WHICH HAS A DEADLINE TO GET THE PROJECT DONE.
SO WHEN IT CAME IN IN DECEMBER, I BELIEVE IT WAS WHERE WE BID THAT ONE OUT OR A LITTLE BIT BEFORE THAT, UM, THE CONTRACTOR CAME BACK AND I THOUGHT WE WERE GONNA BE A LONG DELAY, BUT HE CAME BACK AND SAID HE COULD GET 1500 FEET, WHICH ISN'T A LOT AT, UH, CORN MAINE, WHICH THEY HAD 2000 FEET IN STOCK.
AND WE DECIDED TO GO WITH THAT SIMPLY TO GET THE PROJECT DONE BECAUSE THAT ONE'S BEEN IN KIND OF IN SCRUTINY FOR HOW LONG IT'S TAKING AND THE FACT THAT UM, UM, WE COULD DO IT AND UH, WELL BASICALLY THAT'S IT, BUT IT WAS IN STOCK AND WE NEEDED TO GET THE PROJECT DONE.
SO WE DECIDED TO DO THAT ONE IN IN IN THAT MANUAL WITHOUT IT, WITHOUT THIS.
SO YOU SAID MARDI GRA IS NOT ZINC? NO, AND I'VE SAID THAT ALL ALONG EVER SINCE WE, WE, WELL, SINCE THE TIME IT WAS BIT AFTER.
I THINK IN WRITING YOU'VE GOT THAT IT IS ZINC FOR MARDI GRA BECAUSE WE WERE QUESTIONING, AND I THINK EVEN COUNCILWOMAN KITCHEN
[01:45:01]
ASKED, WAIT A MINUTE, WHY IS MARDI GRA GETTING ZINC PIPE BUT WE'RE GETTING OTHER PIPES? AND THAT'S WHEN YOU EVEN ANSWERED BACK TO HER, WELL, YEAH, WE DIDN'T ORDER THE RIGHT PIPE CUZ WE WERE IN A HURRY, SO THEREFORE WE'RE GONNA WRAP THAT PIPE IN PLASTIC.SO MAR GRA WAS GETTING ZINC, OTHER PLACES WERE NOT.
SO I'D LIKE TO BE CLEAR ABOUT THE FACT THAT THERE'S NO, IT'S NOT WRONG PIPE, RIGHT? DUCTAL IRON PIPE IS A PERFECTLY FINE PIPE TO BE USED.
RIGHT? IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE, ZINC CODED DUCTAL IRON IS THE PREFERRED PIPE TO BE USED.
RIGHT? BASED ON THE ENGINEER'S RECOMMENDATION BECAUSE THE ZINC COATING PROVIDES ADDED LIFE RELATIVE TO THE DUCTAL IRON.
BUT DUCTAL IRON IS NOT THE WRONG PIPE.
BAD CHOICE OF WORDS ON MY PART CALLING IT OR CLASSIFYING IT AS BAD PIPE.
AT THE MOMENT, EVERYTHING IN OUR SUBDIVISIONS IS BEING PUT IN AS STANDARD DUCT ARM PIPE.
WE HAVE NOT CHANGED OUR STANDARDS YET FOR, UH, DEVELOPERS, WHICH WE'RE GOING TO DO.
SO LIKE WITH MY RECOMMENDATION FOR HOW WE ARE TRYING TO PROPOSE OUR OPTIONS MOVING FORWARD AND SUCH, GETTING 'EM WRITTEN DOWN, CAN WE GET IT WRITTEN DOWN EXACTLY WHAT PIPE WE HAVE, WHAT PIPE IS GOING WHERE TOO.
THERE ARE SO MANY QUESTIONS OUT THERE PEOPLE ARE ASKING, EVERYONE'S TRYING TO TALK.
LET'S JUST GET IT TRANSPARENT AND PUT IT STRAIGHT OUT SO THAT WE STOP ALL THAT QUESTIONING.
THE MARDI GRAS IS THE ONLY ONE THAT KIND OF CHANGED BECAUSE WE HAD IT KIND OF A DEADLINE TO GET IT DONE AND THE PIPE WAS THERE SO WE DECIDED TO DO IT OKAY.
TO GO OFF THE BEATEN PATH FROM THE WATER LINES.
BUT THIS WORKS IN CONCESSION WITH WE'RE ALSO, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND YOU SAID, WE'RE STARTING TO SEE CRUMBLING SEWER LINES AND UH, I THINK DID, WHEN DID I SAY THAT? I DON'T THINK I SAID THAT.
WE HAVE WHAT YOU, YOU'VE GOT A PROJECT THAT YOU WANT TO GO IN AND DO A SPRAY LINE AROUND THE, ON THESE SEWER LINES BECAUSE THEY ARE STARTING TO DECAY AND COR ROAD FALL APART, WHATEVER TERMINOLOGY YOU WANT TO USE.
AND THAT THAT LINER IS SUPPOSED TO STRENGTHEN THE PIPE.
THE LINER IS MEANT TO BE 50 TO 75 YEAR, UH, IMPROVEMENT TO THAT PIPE.
YES WE DO, WE DO HAVE TRI-CITIES.
OUR WASTEWATER COMPANY, UH, RUNS CAMERAS THROUGH ALL OUR LINES EVERY FIVE YEARS.
SO WE HAVE RECORD OF ANY OF 'EM THAT LOOK LIKE THEY'RE COLLAPSING.
THERE'S SOME THAT ARE IN BAD SHAPE AND THAT'S THE ONES WE'RE LINING.
WE'RE GOING $350,000 WORTH THIS YEAR.
AND THAT GETS YOU A LOT OF LINING DONE MORE THAN A REPLACEMENT PROJECT.
SO, AND WE'RE TRYING TO DO THAT EVERY YEAR NOW OF 300, LIKE THREE TO $400,000 OF LINING.
AND MOST OF IT'S IN THE SOUTH AREA OF THE CITY CUZ IT'S ALL CLAY PIPE AND NOT PVC PIPE.
WHEN YOU DID YOUR SIP LINING ON LONGFORD, ONE OF THE FIRST QUESTIONS I HAD WAS, IF YOU'VE GOT A PIPE THAT IS DETERIORATING ON THE EXTERIOR, PUTTING A LINER INSIDE TO ME IS LIKE PUTTING A FIXER FLAT IN A TIRE THAT'S LOSING ITS TREAD, RIGHT? IT'S NOT GONNA HOLD.
HOW, HOW IS THAT DIFFERENT? UNDERSTAND WE'RE NOT TALKING PRESSURIZED LINES, BUT IF YOU'VE GOT A, A LINE THAT IS DECAYING AND CRUMBLING, HOW IS THAT LINER GOING TO ACTUALLY STRENGTHEN THE PIPE? ARE WE WASTING MONEY BY DOING LINING ON SEWER LINES VERSUS REPLACEMENT? NO.
UM, THAT WOULD BE VERY COSTLY FIRST OFF CUZ THAT'S, MOST OF THOSE ARE OVER 10 FEET DEEP, SO IT WOULD BE PROBABLY DOUBLE THE COST OF WATER MAIN REPLACEMENT LINING PIPE IS A STANDARD THAT EVERYBODY'S DOING NOW.
UM, IT LINES FROM A MANHOLE TO A MANHOLE AND IT GOES THROUGH THE PIPE AND THEY, THEY PUT EITHER STEAM OR, UH, REALLY HOT WATER THAT EXPANDS IT OUT AND IT ADHERES TO THE INSIDE OF THE PIPE.
IF THERE'S ANY PIPES THAT HAVE A CERTAIN LEVEL OF COLLAPSE TO IT, WE DIG IT UP AND FIX IT.
SO EVERY YEAR WE USUALLY DO AT LEAST FIVE TO 10 OF 'EM THAT WE FIX BEFORE WE LINE IT SO THAT A LOT OF TIMES THE LINER CAN'T GET THROUGH IT FOR THAT REASON TOO.
BUT IF A LINER CAN GET THROUGH IT AND IT HAS A SLIGHT INDENTION ON THE TOP OF IT, IN SOME CASES IT, IT GOES THROUGH IT AND LINES THAT AND THAT, UH, TO THE OUTSIDE OR INSIDE OF IT AND IT TAKES CARE OF THAT AND IT HARDENS UP AFTER IT'S DONE AND IT BECOMES BASICALLY AS GOOD AS THE PIPE, IT'S PROBABLY BETTER THAN THE CLAY PIPE THAT'S OUT THERE.
AND THEN IS IT, KEVIN, SAY A QUESTION FOR YOU ON THE MODEL THAT YOU RAN FOR US, DID YOU RECEIVE INPUT FROM THE CITY AS TO WHAT ALL VARIABLES YOU NEEDED TO PUT INTO THAT MODEL TO MAKE YOUR PREDICTIONS? UH, THAT'S CORRECT.
SO, UM, THIS IS, UH, AVAILABLE IN THE REPORT THAT'S POSTED, UH, IF YOU WANT TO REVIEW THAT, BUT THE TYPES OF INFORMATION THAT WE RECEIVED FROM THE CITY INCLUDED, UH, INFORMATION ABOUT THE ATTRIBUTES OF THE PIPE, SO THE, UH, WHEN IT WAS INSTALLED,
[01:50:01]
THE TYPE OF MATERIAL AND, UH, THE SIZE OF THE PIPE AS WELL.UH, WE ALSO UTILIZE THE CITY'S RECORD OF HISTORICAL BREAKS THAT HAVE OCCURRED BACK TO THE YEAR 2010.
SO THE MODEL IS SPECIFIC TO THE CITY SYSTEM.
WE DIDN'T USE GENERIC VALUES FROM ANOTHER COMMUNITY.
DOES DEMAND ON THE SYSTEM GET CALCULATED THEN FOR AS TO WHERE YOU WERE EXPECTING LEAKS OR THE NUMBER OF LEAKS TO OCCUR? BECAUSE WHAT I'M DRIVING AT IS I'M WONDERING, I'D LIKE TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU ARE AWARE OF ALL THE MASS BUILDOUT THAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE GOING ON MM-HMM.
TO ME IT MAKES SENSE THAT THE MORE DEMAND YOU PUT ON THE SYSTEM MM-HMM.
UH, WE DID LOOK AT THAT, UM, ASPECT, NOT DIRECTLY, BUT INDIRECTLY, IF YOU WILL.
I WOULD SAY A COUPLE THINGS TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION FIRST IS THAT EVEN THOUGH THERE'S BEEN GROWTH IN THE CITY, GENERALLY SPEAKING, THE PRESSURE IN THE PIPE DOES NOT CHANGE.
IT CERTAINLY DOESN'T CHANGE SUBSTANTIALLY WHEN YOU DO SEE SUBSTANTIAL CHANGES LIKE WHAT OCCURRED NORTH OF 70.
THAT WAS A ONE TIME, UH, A GREAT CHANGE OF 50% CHANGE IN THE PRICE RIGHT.
JUST FLOW THAT YOU'RE GONNA BE INCREASING, CORRECT.
BUT THE, THE CHANGES THAT OCCUR IN GROWTH ARE MUCH SMALLER AND THEY, UH, IN, IN OUR EXPERIENCE, THEY DON'T INCREASE BREAK RATES IN OTHER COMMUNITIES.
AND WE DID NOT SEE, UH, CHANGES IN GROWTH IMPACT, UH, THE BREAK RATE IN HUBER HEIGHTS FOLLOWING THE PRESENTATION THAT WE DID.
UM, I BELIEVE IT WAS FEBRUARY 21ST, THE, THE, UH, COUNCIL MEETING WHERE I PRESENTED, WE DID DO SOME FOLLOW UP BASED ON, UH, SOME COMMENTS FROM COUNCIL.
SO WE DID LOOK AT THE IMPACTS OF CHANGING WATER USE PATTERNS WHEN THE PANDEMIC STARTED AND PEOPLE WERE SENT HOME OBVIOUSLY IN MARCH OF 2020.
AND WE DID NOT SEE ANY CHANGE IN THE BREAK RATE FOR THE THREE OR FOUR MONTHS THAT FOLLOWED, UH, THAT CHANGE IN USE PATTERN.
SO THAT WAS A CONFIRMATION TO US THAT THAT CHANGES SUBTLE CHANGES IN WATER USAGE THROUGHOUT THE CITY DIDN'T HAVE, UH, A SIGNIFICANT OR DETECTABLE IMPACT ON THE BREAK RATE.
DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? YEAH.
AND THEN THE LAST QUESTION I HAVE, AND I'VE HEARD IT, I MEAN WE SAW IT IN IN THE PRESENTATION, OUR BREAK RATE FOR THIS YEAR IS CURRENTLY DOWN.
ARE THERE ANY THOUGHTS, BECAUSE MY FEAR IS, AH, WE'RE JUST RETURNING TO NORMAL.
IS THERE POSSIBLY A DRIVER? ARE WE GETTING INTO A LAW PERIOD? POSSIBLY IT'S, I I GUESS I'M CONCERNED THAT WE'RE LEAVING IT AT THAT AND NOT GOING FURTHER IN DETAIL AS TO WHAT WE MIGHT POSSIBLY STILL EXPECT.
UH, BUT WE DO, SO WE EXPECT TWO THINGS, UH, DIRECTLY TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION.
ONE IS WE EXPECT THE PIPE THAT'S IN THE GROUND, UM, TO CONTINUE TO ACCELERATE ITS DETERIORATION RATE AND THE MODELS PREDICT THAT THE BRAKE RATE, IF YOU DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL TO DO REPLACEMENT, THE BRAKE RATES WOULD INCREASE BETWEEN SEVEN AND SEVEN AND A HALF PERCENT PER YEAR.
SO THAT'S WHAT THE REPLACEMENT PROGRAM IS DESIGNED TO ADDRESS.
WHAT WE ALSO EXPECT IS THAT THE IMPACT FROM THE PRESSURE PROJECT NORTH OF TWO 70 AND THE CHANGES THAT OCCURRED WHEN THE, UM, NEBO ROAD WATER TREATMENT PLANT WAS TAKEN OFFLINE AND THE SOFTENING IMPROVEMENTS WENT ONLINE IN 2020, UH, 2020, I BELIEVE THAT THOSE IMPACTS WILL CONTINUE TO SUBSIDE.
AND SO WE'VE SEEN THAT OCCUR SINCE 2020.
IN 2020 TO 21 THERE WAS A DECREASE ALSO TO 22.
OUR EXPECTATION IS THAT WILL CONTINUE TO DECREASE, HOWEVER, THAT NEEDS TO BE CONFIRMED AND THAT THAT'S WHERE THE RECOMMENDATION TO THE CITY IS TO CONTINUE TO MONITOR THE BREAK RATES, UH, AND TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE IMPACTS ARE, UM, TEMPORARY AND THEY CONTINUE TO SUBSIDE.
AND THEN TO BUILD ON THAT QUESTION THAT STEVE HAD ASKED ABOUT THE SAMPLE ANALYSIS, HAVE ANY RECENT BORDER SAMPLES BEEN ANALYZED OR WHEN THE PIPE HAS BEEN REMOVED, HAS THE PIPE BEEN ANALYZED TO SEE EXACTLY WHERE WE STAND? I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND HISTORICAL TRENDS MAY BE THAT'S WHAT OUR SOIL WAS.
[01:55:02]
AND ARE WE POSSIBLY SEEING SOMETHING OTHER THAN JUST CORROSIVE SOIL? I CAN ONLY ANSWER FOR THE PERSPECTIVE OF THIS PROJECT.WE DID NOT TAKE PROJECT SPECIFIC SOIL BORINGS.
UH, WE WOULDN'T EXPECT IT TO CHANGE.
WE WOULDN'T EXPECT THE SOILS, UM, WITHIN THE COURT OF WHERE THE PIPES ARE LAID TO CHANGE AS A RESULT OF OTHER PROJECTS.
BUT I'D HAVE TO DEFER TO THE CITY ENGINEER TO SEE IF OTHER BORINGS HAVE, HAVE, UH, TAKEN PLACE TO ADDRESS THAT QUESTION.
HAVE YOU EVER GIVEN ANY CONSIDERATION, JUST TO MAKE SURE I, I DON'T KNOW HOW COSTLY ARE, SO IT'S JUST AN OFF THE WALL QUESTION.
WE HAVEN'T, BUT WE COULD, I GUESS.
BUT IT'S DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU WANT TO TAKE 'EM AND HOW MANY YOU WANNA TAKE.
IT'S A COST TO ALL THAT AND WHETHER IT'LL SHOW ANYTHING DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THE SOIL MAPS THAT WE HAVE ALREADY.
YOU COULD DO A FEW AND FIND OUT WHETHER THE SOIL MAPS ARE CORRECT AND IF YOU, YOU WOULD HAVE TO ASSUME THEN THAT THE WHOLE MAPPING SYSTEM IS CORRECT.
LIKE I SAY, IT WAS JUST A OFF THE WALL QUESTION.
BOWER MOORE IS A SOILS ENGINEERING FIRM HERE IN HUMAN RIGHTS ACTUALLY.
SO IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT COUNCIL WANTS TO PURSUE.
I JUST HOPE THAT ALL OF COUNCIL GIVES SERIOUS CONSIDERATION AND THEY LISTEN TO THE RESIDENTS ABOUT THE OPTIONS ONE, TWO, AND THREE.
I MEAN, WE'VE GOT A RATE INCREASE, I THINK EFFECTIVE NEXT MONTH.
WE'VE ALREADY HAD A COUPLE PEOPLE AREN'T GONNA TAKE TOO KIND TO CONTINUED RATES, BUT THE ASSESSMENTS TO IMPOSE IT JUST ON CERTAIN RESIDENTS I THINK IS NOT IT.
IT SHOULD, IT, WE NEED TO TOSS THAT OPTION OUT THE WINDOW NOW WOULD BE MY SUGGESTION.
UM, THAT WAS ACTUALLY ONE OF, ONE OF MY TAKEAWAYS FROM A PREVIOUS COMMENT IS, UH, UM, I, I, I DO BELIEVE THIS COUNSEL NEEDS TO ENGAGE IN SOME CONVERSATIONS WITH BOSNER AND WARNER, UM, AND TAKE SOME UPDATED SOIL SAMPLES, UH, IN AND WARD FOUR IN THAT AREA I THINK IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR US TO KNOW WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH.
PLUS IT'S GOOD INFORMATION THAT THE ENGINEER CAN HAVE HISTORICALLY, UH, UH, MOVING FORWARD.
AND PLUS I WOULD BE, UH, INTERESTED TO SEE, UH, WHAT BURGESS AND NIEL GETS BACK FROM THE EPA AND COMPARE THE HISTORIC SAMPLES FROM THE UPDATED SAMPLES THAT WE WOULD GET.
I THINK THAT WOULD DEFINITELY TELL A STORY.
I THINK THAT'D BE THE BENEFIT OF HAVING SOME SOIL BOARDS DONE TO COMPARE WHAT THE U S D A MAP SAYS.
AND IS THAT WHAT'S STILL THERE? CORRECT.
I THINK ROSS SAID IF, IF WE RUN A FEW SAMPLES AND THERE'RE THE SAME, THEY'RE CORRECT, WE COULD ASSUME THAT THE REST OF THE MAP IS THE SOIL SHOULDN'T HAVE CHANGED.
SO IF THEY DID SAMPLES WAY BACK WHEN, THEY SHOULD STILL BE CURRENT OR STILL BE ACTIVE, YOU KNOW, THE SAME SOIL.
ED, DID YOU HAVE A COMMENT THEN ON YES, PLEASE.
UH, MR. CARTER, UM, I JUST WANTED TO SPEAK TO YOU.
UH, I, I DID APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS THAT YOU MADE MR. CARTER.
AND, UH, AS FAR AS THE RATE INCREASE, STAFF BROUGHT US A RATE INCREASE, UH, RECENTLY.
UM, I WAS, UH, ON RECORD IS AGAINST IT AT THE TIME.
UH, THE REASON IS BECAUSE I THOUGHT THAT EVEN THOUGH THEY DID BRING US NUMBERS, I THOUGHT THAT WAS A PARTIAL, UH, COMPARED TO THE OVERALL SCOPE THAT WE NEED TO BE LOOKING AT.
SO UNTIL I SEE, UM, THE NUMBERS FOR THE OVERALL PROJECT, I'M GOING TO CONTINUE, UM, TO BE A NO ON THAT AT THIS TIME.
UM, WITH THAT BEING SAID, UH, WE HAVE A NEED WE HAVE TO TAKE A LOOK AT.
UM, I DID APPRECIATE THE FUNDING THAT WE POSSIBLY HAVE.
I KNOW BRIAN, UH, MENTIONED, UH, GENERAL FUND MONEY.
WE HAVE, UH, WATER FUND MONEY.
UH, WE HAVE TIFF FUND MONEY, UH, IN OUR BUDGET.
AND OUR FINANCIAL STANDING IS VERY GOOD AT THIS TIME BASED ON THE STAFF REPORT OF OUR BUDGET AT THE END OF LAST YEAR AND GETTING READY FOR 2023.
UM, THERE WAS A COMMENT, UM, UH, COUNCILMAN CAMPBELL HAD MADE PREVIOUSLY, AND I AGREED AT THAT TIME THAT I CAN SEE A WATER RATE INCREASE AS NECESSARY.
UM, BUT WE DIDN'T GIVE AN AMOUNT TO IT OR A TIMETABLE.
SO I'M NOT WRITING A BLANK AGREEMENT THAT I'M GOING TO VOTE FOR IT.
UH, BUT HE DID ASK A QUESTION ABOUT IF THE CITY CAME UP WITH 20 MILLION FOR THIS WATER MAIN REPLACEMENT AND THEN WE INCREASE, UM, THE FUNDING, OR THE, EXCUSE ME, THE, THE COST TO THE RESIDENTS CITYWIDE.
UH, WHAT WOULD THAT DO WITH THE COST? HOW MUCH WOULD IT LOWER? AND I DON'T BELIEVE BRIAN, UM, I'VE SEEN THAT RESPONSE.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU GAVE IT TO MARK CAMPBELL DIRECTLY OR IF YOU SENT IT OUT AN EMAIL.
BUT HAVE YOU PRODUCED THAT 20, THAT REQUEST
[02:00:01]
FOR INFORMATION FOR 20 MILLION, UM, I GUESS, UH, THRUST, UH, COUNCIL MONEY THRUST INTO A CITY MONEY, EXCUSE ME.AND THEN WHAT THAT WOULD DO TO THE RATES? HAVE YOU COMPILED THAT? DID I MISS THAT? I, I'M SORRY, I DON'T UNDER, I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION.
I DON'T, UH, MARK, MARK ASKED IF WE PUT 20 MILLION INTO THE WATER FUND OVER A PERIOD OF TIME, EXCUSE ME, THE WATER COST PROJECT OVER A PERIOD OF TIME, WHAT WOULD THAT DO WITH THE RATE INCREASE? HOW MUCH WOULD THAT LOWER? IT WAS MY GENERAL IDEA.
I CERTAINLY WILL NOT SPEAK FOR COUNCILMAN CAMPBELL, BUT I WAS JUST LOOKING FOR THAT PARTICULAR INFORMATION.
DID YOU HAD, HAVE YOU ANSWERED THAT? NO, I'M SORRY.
WE HAVEN'T WRITTEN THAT CALCULATION AT THIS POINT.
SOMETIME WE GET A LOT OF EMAILS.
SO I KNOW THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE WORKING ON AND LOOKING AT OBVIOUSLY.
UM, BUT I DO WANT TO LOOK AT, UH, THE OTHER FUNDING AND POSSIBLY WHAT THAT CAN DO TO THE RATE INCREASE BEFORE, UM, I INCREASE IT.
UH, THE LAST COMMENT ON THAT IS, YES, WE HAVE BEEN, UM, HARD WORK, BUT IT'S LUXURY FOR THE RESIDENTS.
BUT IT'S HARD WORK TOO OVER A PERIOD OF TIME FROM PREVIOUS COUNCILS, INCLUDING THIS ONE, TO HAVE, UH, WATER AND SEWER RATES VERY LOW IN THE REGION.
I'VE NEVER BEEN A PROPONENT JUST BECAUSE WE HAVE LOW WATER AND SEWER RATES TO RAISE THEM JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE LOW.
THEY, THERE HAS TO BE A REASON, THERE HAS TO BE A GOOD REASON BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S JUST GOOD BUSINESS THAT THE CITY PROVIDES FOR OUR RESIDENTS TO KEEP THOSE RATES LOW WITH GOOD AND EXCELLENT SERVICES.
SO A LOT OF WHAT YOU HAD SAID, AND I REALLY APPRECIATE THE RESEARCH AND THE KNOWLEDGE YOU HAVE, WHICH IS REALLY GOOD.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT BUSINESS AND BACKGROUND YOU HAVE, BUT CERTAINLY YOU'RE VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE.
I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THOSE COMMENTS AS WE GO FORWARD ABOUT THAT PARTICULAR PART BECAUSE I KNOW SOME COUNCIL MEMBERS, UH, ARE INTERESTED IN, YOU KNOW, RAISING THE RATES AS THEY SHOULD.
AND I DID PROMISE, I DID SAY I DID AGREE THAT INITIALLY AND, AND RIGHTFULLY SO, THAT I CAN SEE A RATE INCREASE COMING, BUT I DON'T HAVE AN AMOUNT AND I DON'T HAVE A TIMETABLE YET.
AND RIGHT NOW I'M A NO VOTE UNTIL I SEE, AND I'M CONVINCED THAT IT'S NECESSARY FOR A PERIOD OF TIME AND HOW MUCH AND WHERE I CAME FROM.
THE RATES HERE ARE EXTREMELY LOW.
BUT BACK IN 2018, I BELIEVE IT WAS WHEN MR. FALKOWSKI WAS HERE, AND THIS WAS BEFORE THE PRESSURE AND THE WATER SOFTENER KICKED IN, HIS RECOMMENDATION WAS TO GO AHEAD AND START INCREASING RATES, FAILED COVER COST TO THOSE TWO PROJECTS.
AND FOR REPLACING PIPES BECAUSE IT WAS KNOWN AT THAT TIME THE WATER SOFTENING WAS GOING TO CREATE ISSUES.
SO THE RATES DID GO THOUGH, I STILL HAD MY BILLS WHEN I FIRST MOVED IN HERE FROM 2018, WE'RE UP FOUR OR $5.
BUT EVEN THOUGH IT'S UP A DOLLAR AND A HALF HERE AND $2 HERE AND $3 HERE, NOW IT'S STARTING TO ADD UP.
AND IN THESE HARD ECONOMIC TIMES THAT STARTS BECOMING MORE DIFFICULT.
BUT THEN YOU STILL HAD THAT BLOOMING QUESTION IS OF THE MONEY THAT WAS INCREASED OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS TO REPLACE THE PIPES, WHERE DID THAT MONEY GO? AND THAT WAS THE LAST TIME I SPOKE LAST MONTH.
AND I THINK THAT WATER RATE INCREASE WAS DUE TO THE WATER SOFTENING PROJECT, WASN'T IT? WELL, WATER SOFTENING WAS PART OF, WAS PART OF IT, BUT THEN BECAUSE IT WAS KNOWN THAT SOFTENING WAS GOING TO CREATE ISSUES, IT WAS ALSO TO START PUTTING MONEY INSIDE FOR PIPE REPLACEMENT.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS, YOUR QUESTIONS, CLARITY.
AND I DO, UH, COMPLETELY AGREE THAT IF WE PUT ALL THIS IN ONE PARTICULAR SPREADSHEET, PIECE PAPER, PUT A LOT OF THE INFORMATION IN IT, IT'S A ONE STOP SHOP.
I DO KNOW WE TRY TO BE, YOU KNOW, OPEN, COMMUNICATIVE, TRANSPARENT, BUT IT CERTAINLY WOULD BE SIMPLER IF IT WERE EASIER TO DIGEST ON A, YOU KNOW, MORE CONCENTRATED PLACE.
I WOULD HOPE THIS ALL OF COUNCIL, BECAUSE THIS IS ALL OVER THE PLACE.
I, HOW EVERYONE'S KEEPING TRACK OF EVERYTHING.
WELL, I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S RACKING MY BRAIN OUT.
DONNA, DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION? AND THEN WE'LL COME BACK TO MARK.
UM, THIS QUESTION IS FOR, UH, MR. BERKMAN.
UH, TO FOLLOW UP ON MR. CARTER'S COMMENT, UH, I'D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE HAVE A WATER MAIN REPAIR OR REPLACEMENT.
DO WE DO ANY TYPE OF FORENSICS ON, UH, WHAT CAUSED THE BRAKE? WHAT, UM, WHAT WE FIND
[02:05:01]
WHEN WE DIG THE HOLE AND PULL THE PIPE UP? UM, NO, WE DON'T BECAUSE WE DON'T PULL THE PIPE UP.WE ABANDON THE PIPE, WE PLUG IT AND ABANDON IT.
CAUSE OTHERWISE THERE'D BE A, A LOT OF EXTRA COST CUZ THERE'D BE ANOTHER TRENCH TO DIG IT OUT AND YOUR COST WOULD GO WAY UP FOR THAT.
UM, TYPICALLY WE ONLY TELL IT FROM THE WATER MAIN BREAK.
USUALLY THE, I BELIEVE, UH, THE, THE GENTLEMAN THAT FIX IT USUALLY REPORT WHAT TYPE OF BREAK IT WAS.
IF IT'S A CORROSION HOLE OR IF IT'S A, UH, SHEAR BREAK WHERE IT JUST CRACKS, THEY USUALLY STATE WHAT IT IS SO WE KNOW HOW MANY ARE CORROSION AND, AND, AND THE OTHER TYPES.
WAS THAT AMOUNT OF INFORMATION, THAT LEVEL OF DETAIL PROVIDED TO BURGESON NEPAL AS PART OF THE STUDY? I BELIEVE SO.
WE, WHEN WE MADE THE INITIAL REQUEST TO RECEIVE THE BRAKE INFORMATION, UM, WE MADE IT CLEAR WE WOULD EXCLUDE THINGS, UH, THAT WOULDN'T BE RELATED TO THE DEGRADATION OF THE PIPE.
SO IF THERE WERE, FOR EXAMPLE, UH, A CONTRACTOR THAT WAS DOING WORK IN AN AREA AND THEY STRUCK THE PIPE, OBVIOUSLY WE WOULD EXCLUDE THAT TYPE OF INFORMATION.
BUT, UM, UH, THE CITY ENGINEER IS CORRECT.
THAT'S WHEN WE MADE THE INITIAL, UM, REQUEST FOR INFORMATION.
UM, WE WERE CLEAR THAT THAT WAS WHAT WE, UH, NEEDED FOR THE STUDY AND I BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT THEY PROVIDED.
UM, UH, FOLLOW UP THEN FOR FUTURE REPAIRS.
UH, IS THERE ANY ADVANTAGE, UM, TO THE CITY IN COLLECTING A SOIL SAMPLE AT THAT TIME? SENDING IT OFF AND DETERMINING THIS, UH, UH, LEVEL OF CORROSIVENESS? I THINK FROM, UH, AS THE ENGINEER MENTIONED, WHEN THE REPAIRS ARE DONE, THAT IS THE APPROPRIATE TIME, UH, TO MAKE AN ASSESSMENT ABOUT WHAT, WHAT TYPE OF BREAK IT WAS.
I THINK IT'S, UH, AS HE MENTIONED, IT'S, WE DON'T RECOMMEND, UM, WHEN YOU DO REPLACEMENTS THAT YOU DIG UP THE OLD PIPE FOR THE, THE SAME REASONS THAT HE STATED.
UM, AND AS WAS STATED BEFORE, I, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT COLLECTING ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON SOIL PROPERTIES, UH, WOULD PROVIDE VALUE BACK FOR THE INVESTMENT.
UNLESS IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN DO OPPORTUNISTICALLY.
UH, IF YOU'RE IN DOING A REPAIR, YOU'RE AT THE PIPE AND YOU WANT TO, UH, SOIL THE, OR SAMPLE THE SOIL RATHER, WHILE YOU'RE THERE DOING THE REPAIR, YOU'VE ALREADY DUG THE TRENCH, YOU'VE MADE THAT INVESTMENT TO DO THE REPAIR.
SO THAT WOULD BE IN AN APPROPRIATE TIME TO DO THAT.
UH, BUT OTHERWISE, UH, WE DON'T, WE DID NOT RECOMMEND, UH, IN THE STUDY THAT ADDITIONAL BORINGS BE TAKEN.
KEVIN, AT THE LAST MEETING WHEN YOU GAVE YOUR INITIAL PRESENTATION, YOU HAD INDICATED THAT, UM, HUBER HEIGHTS WASN'T ALONE IN HAVING A GROUP OF PIPES THAT NEEDED TO BE SERVICED IN SOME WAY.
IS THAT TRUE? DO I REMEMBER THAT? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND THEN THE BACKLOG OF PIPE THAT YOU DESCRIBED WE HAD WAS ABOUT 20 MILLION? UH, THAT'S CORRECT.
AND WE, WE DID FOLLOW UP, UH, FOLLOWING THE LAST MEETING, UH, TO GET A MORE PRECISE NUMBER, UM, WHICH I SENT TO THE CITY ENGINEER.
UH, THE EXACT, OR I SHOULD SAY THE APPROXIMATE NUMBER WAS 19 MILLION.
AND WHAT MR. LYONS IS REFERENCING WAS SOMETHING THAT WE HAD ASKED AT THAT MEETING.
UH, WHAT IF WE DIDN'T REPLACE THE 20 MILLION BACKLOG BUT SPENT MONEY EACH YEAR FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS, YOU HAD GIVEN A PROPOSAL TO THAT MM-HMM.
YOU, YOUR PROPOSAL WAS TO PAY SO MUCH A YEAR, INVEST SO MUCH A YEAR.
UH, WE LOOKED AT A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT INVESTMENT STRATEGIES.
UM, AGAIN, TO GIVE YOU THE OPTION, UH, WE, THE OPTION THAT WE RECOMMENDED, UM, TOOK INTO ACCOUNT, AT LEAST AT THE TIME OF THE STUDY, THERE WAS 2 MILLION DEDICATED FOR 2023 IN THE BUDGET.
WE RECOMMENDED $4 MILLION FROM 2024 TO THE END OF THE DECADE.
UH, THE INVESTMENT IN THE THIRTIES WOULD JUMP TO 5 MILLION.
AND THEN BEYOND THAT, THROUGHOUT THE PLANNING HORIZON, UM, THE FORTIES AND INTO THE, INTO THE EARLY FIFTIES, IT WOULD DROP DOWN TO ABOUT 4.25 MILLION.
SO IT IS A CONSISTENT INVESTMENT THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO STABILIZE THE BREAK RATE TO PRE 2019 LEVELS THROUGHOUT THE PLANNING HORIZON, WHICH WE USE, WE USED 25 YEARS AS THE PLANNING HORIZON AND WITH EVEN SOME OF THE SCENARIOS THAT WE PRESENTED IN THE REPORT LOOKED EVEN CLOSER TO 50 YEARS, UM, WITH A REC RECOMMENDED INVESTMENT.
[02:10:01]
YEAR PERIOD, UH, IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN STATED THAT IT WAS A HUNDRED PLUS MILLION DOLLAR INVESTMENT.UM, AT, AT NO TIME DID THE ANNUAL INVESTMENT REACH MORE THAN THE 5 MILLION THAT WE RECOMMENDED IN THE THIRTIES.
UH, AND WE RECOMMENDED, UM, AND THEN OVER THAT 25 YEAR PERIOD, THE INVESTMENT IN TOTAL WOULD BE HOW MUCH I CUMULATIVE THAT IT YES, YOU'RE CORRECT.
IT IS CLOSER TO A HUNDRED MILLION AND THAT IS TO REPLACE A VAST MAJORITY OF THE CAST IRON SYSTEM.
AND THEN THE QUESTION WAS ASKED BY COUNSEL THAT I THANK YOU.
AND MR. BERGMAN AND, UH, BRIAN ARE WORKING ON IS IF WE REPLACE THE BACKLOG OF PIPES FOR 20 MILLION, IT WAS STATED THAT SOMEWHERE AROUND $2 MILLION A YEAR OR LESS WOULD BE THE INVESTMENT TO MAINTAIN THE SYSTEM AT THAT POINT.
SO YOU'RE WORKING ON WHAT THAT TOTAL NUMBER MIGHT BE OVER A 25 YEAR PERIOD AND WOULD IT BE LESS THAN THE A HUNDRED MILLION INVESTMENT BY NOT REPLACING THE BACKLOG OF PIPES? INITIALLY, UH, AFTER THE COUNCIL MEETING ON THE 21ST, WE DID GO AND REVIEW THAT, UM, AS AN ALTERNATE INVESTMENT STRATEGY.
SO A 19 MILLION INVESTMENT IN 2023 WOULD HAVE TO BE FOLLOWED BY AN INVESTMENT OF APPROXIMATELY 3.5 TO 4 MILLION PER YEAR.
I THINK WE SAID 3.7 IS ABOUT THE SWEET SPOT.
SO, UM, I, I DON'T HAVE THAT EXACT NUMBER IN FRONT OF ME, BUT I DON'T BELIEVE IT WOULD REDUCE THE OVERALL INVESTMENT OVER THE 25 YEAR PERIOD SUBSTANTIALLY.
AND, AND THEN I HAVE A QUESTION IF I COULD CONTINUE.
JIM, IS THERE ANY WATER, UH, DEBT THAT WILL BE EXPIRING ANYTIME SOON? UH, THERE ARE SOME BONDS THAT WILL BE, UH, RETIRING IN 2025.
AND, AND DO WE KNOW HOW MUCH THAT DEBT SERVICE WAS ORIGINALLY, OR THE AMOUNT BORROWED WAS ORIGINALLY? THAT WAS BACK IN 1995 AND I DON'T KNOW THAT NUMBER.
IS THAT A NUMBER THAT YOU COULD GET FOR US? I CAN GET THAT FOR YOU.
AND BRIAN, TONIGHT, UH, YOUR GOAL WAS TO SHARE WITH US OPTIONS TO ADDRESS AN EXPENDITURE THAT WE KNOW IS GOING TO BE SUBSTANTIAL OVER A 25 YEAR PERIOD.
AND YOU'RE LOOKING FOR, UM, POLICY DIRECTION ON WHICH PLAN TO GO WITH.
AT THAT POINT, YOU WOULD RECONCILE THE DEBT SERVICE THAT'S FALLING OFF THAT WE COULD POINT, UH, TO SATISFY SOME OF THAT COST.
TO SOME OF THE, TO SOME OF THE COMMENTS THAT WE'VE HEARD TONIGHT? YES.
WE WOULD BEGIN GETTING INTO THE DETAIL OF WHAT THOSE NUMBERS WOULD LOOK LIKE FOR THIS SPECIFIC PURPOSE OF, WE DON'T WANT TO OVERPOPULATE INFORMATION THAT WILL BECOME IRRELEVANT AS WE CONTINUE TO, TO DEEP DIVE INTO THESE THINGS.
SO THESE ARE THINGS, ONCE WE GET DIRECTION FROM COUNCIL, WE WOULD LOOK TO BEGIN, WHEN DOES DEBT PAY OFF? WHAT RESOURCE COMES AVAILABLE? HEY, WHAT IS THE GROUP? YOU KNOW, THOSE TYPES OF THINGS.
SO WE WOULD GET INTO THE DETAIL AS WE, WE MOVE FORWARD DOWN WHATEVER PATH COUNCIL WOULD ASK US TO GO.
SO THIS IS A SUBSTANTIAL NUMBER OVER A COUPLE OF DECADES, SO WE KNOW THERE'S GONNA HAVE TO BE SOME ADDITIONAL REVENUE STREAM FROM SOMEWHERE, BUT YOU'RE NOT PREPARED TONIGHT TO TALK ABOUT AMOUNT OF RATE INCREASE OR, UH, CORRECT.
FOR THE EXPRESS COMMENT WE HEARD EARLIER, ALL THE NUMBERS ARE ALL OVER THE PLACE.
AND SO WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO TRY AND DIAL THOSE NUMBERS DOWN AND GET THEM AS SPECIFIC AS WE CAN OR KEEP THE, THE WIGGLE ON THEM AS AS LOW AS POSSIBLE AS WE MOVE FORWARD.
AND KEVIN, UH, DURING THAT PROCESS THAT COUNCIL GOES THROUGH, WILL YOU CONTINUE TO PARTNER WITH US? UH, WE'D BE HAPPY TO LOOK AT ANY ALTERNATE, UH, INVESTMENT SCENARIO THAT YOU'D LIKE US TO? YES.
AND RUSS, UH, MY LAST QUESTION, MAYOR MM-HMM.
THANKS MAYOR GLENN? YEAH, REAL BRIEF QUESTION.
I DON'T EXPECT ANYBODY TO HAVE THIS ANSWER OFF THE TOP OF THEIR HEAD.
I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS GONNA ARREST BRIAN.
UM, BUT CAN I GET THE DATES THAT THE, UH, THE, THE PRESSURE UPGRADES NORTH WENT ONLINE AND THE DATE THAT THE SOFTENING WENT ONLINE? THAT'S IT.
ANITA, THIS IS, I'M JUST CURIOUS, IS MARTY GRA FINISHED NOW FOR THE REPLACEMENT? UH, THE, THE, YES, THE PIPES IN THE GROUND, THE SERVICES HAVE BEEN CONNECTED TO ALL THE HOUSES TO THE NEW LINE.
[02:15:01]
WAITING FOR THE, THE ASPHALT PLANTS TO OPEN BEGINNING OF APRIL AND THEN THEY'LL, THEY'LL PAVE THE, THE TOP OF THE TRENCH AND THEN AT THAT POINT THEN THEY'LL GRIND THE WHOLE ROAD AND REPAVE THE ROAD.I WAS JUST CURIOUS IF IT WAS DONE YET, NANCY, WOULD IT BE FEASIBLE FOR US TO TAKE THOSE, UH, BORING SAMPLES FROM, UH, CONSTRUCTION SITES THAT ARE GOING ON NOW? UH, LIKE WHICH ONES YOU REFERRING? WELL, I MEAN, WE'VE GOT THE ONE, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT WHERE THE WATER MEET'S GOING IN NOW? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT? MM-HMM.
I MEAN, WE'VE GOT ENOUGH PROJECTS GOING ON AT DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE CITY, WOULDN'T IT? WELL, I DIDN'T KNOW IF YOU WANTED TO FOCUS IN WARD FOUR OR ARE YOU REFERRING TO THE WHOLE CITY? NO, I, I THINK IF WE DO, IF WE DO AN AREA OF WARD FOUR AND IT MATCHES WHAT THE U S D A MAP SAYS, THEN I THINK IT'S A FAIR ASSUMPTION THAT THE SOILS ARE GONNA MATCH.
SO IF I DID LIKE FOUR OR FIVE IN THAT, THAT WARD YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I THINK I WOULD BE LOOKING FOR.
RICHARD, IS THAT KINDA WHAT YOU HAVE IN MIND TOO? MAYOR? I THINK THAT WOULD BE A GOOD STARTING POINT.
LIKE MARY MEADOWS IS AVAILABLE, YOU CAN GO THERE TOMORROW, TAKE A SAMPLE.
UH, I, I, AND AGAIN, I THINK TO YOUR POINT, MAYOR, UH, THOSE, UH, FOUR OR FIVE LOCATIONS WITHIN FOUR, UM, SOME OF THOSE, UH, OPEN GROUND NOW, UM, I COULD EASILY SEE THAT, UM, REPORT BEING BACK TO US, UH, BY THE, UH, BY MID-APRIL, BEGINNING OF APRIL.
AND IF THEY DON'T MATCH, THEN WE'RE LIKE, OKAY, WELL NOW NEED TO DO MORE.
BUT IF THEY MATCH, I THINK THAT'S A GOOD ASSUMPTION TO MAKE.
AND YOU, I WAS SORRY, SAY SINCE HUBBARD'S HAD 17 BREAKS, ARE YOU GUYS TOTALLY DONE WITH THE BREAK FROM THIS WEEKEND THAT YOU CAN'T GRAB SOMETHING UP FROM THERE SINCE THAT'S ONE AREA THAT'S JUST REALLY ADDED HARD? YEAH, WE'LL DO ONE, WE'LL DO ONE IN THAT AREA.
WE CAN DO IT RIGHT IN THE STREET.
DO WE KNOW WHAT THAT COST IS? IS THAT NEED TO BE LEGISLATION? OR, OR BRIAN CAN IS THAT SOMETHING YOU CAN HAVE DONE UNDER THE, YOUR PURVIEW TO SPEND WITHOUT COUNSEL ACTION? IT SHOULD ONLY BE, IT'D BE UNDER, IT'D BE FIVE TO 10,000.
DOES ANYBODY COUNSEL OBJECT TO, UH, HAVING BRIAN GO AHEAD AND DO THAT? OKAY.
IF YOU GET FOUR OR FIVE SAMPLES IN THAT AREA OF WORD FORWARD, THEY'RE CURRENTLY IN CONSTRUCTION, THAT'LL HELP.
OKAY, DON, THANK YOU YOUR HONOR.
BRIAN, JUST TO GET BACK TO YOUR, UM, PRESENTATION AND THE OPTIONS YOU GAVE US, UH, KNOWING THAT WE'LL BE, UH, TAKING A LOOK AT THIS, UH, SOON, WILL YOU BE PREPARED TO GIVE US THE DETAILS, UH, FOR EXAMPLE, UNDER YOUR CHALLENGES, UH, YOU, UM, NOTE THAT WE'LL REQUIRE ADDITIONAL STAFF.
WILL YOU, UH, BE ABLE TO FLUSH ALL THIS OUT, UM, AS WE, UH, PURSUE THESE DIFFERENT OPTIONS TO LET US KNOW WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF, UH, ADDITIONAL STAFF AND COSTS, UM, AS WELL AS THE, UM, RATE INCREASE PROJECTIONS? YEAH.
WE'LL BE ABLE TO PUT TOGETHER SOME BASIC NUMBERS TO WORK FROM TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF WHAT YOU MIGHT EXPECT.
AND THEN AGAIN, ONCE WE GET SOME MORE SPECIFIC DIRECTION, WE'LL, YOU KNOW, WE'LL WE'LL GET DOWN INTO THE DETAIL, BUT, UH, WE'LL BE ABLE TO GIVE YOU SOME CURSORY NUMBERS.
I GUESS WHAT I'M ASKING IS WILL WE FLUSH OUT EACH OF THE THREE OPTIONS A LITTLE BIT SO THAT WE CAN SEE SOME, UH, NUMBERS PUT WITH EACH OF THE OPTIONS? SURE.
UH, PRIOR TO COUNSEL MAKING A, A HARD AND FAST DECISION ON ONE OF THE THREE OPTIONS.
SO WE HAD TALKED, I THINK HAVING THAT INFORMATION AVAILABLE SOMETIME DURING A WORK SESSION IN APRIL.
UH, YOU'D BE OKAY WITH THAT? I THINK CLEARLY WHAT THE LEGISLATION OR WHAT THE ACTION FOR THE 27TH IS, IS GONNA BE ON THE NOT TO EXCEED OF THE, ONE OF THE 1 MILLION STRICTLY FOR BEING ABLE TO ENGINEER 36 MONTHS OF, OF WORK.
BECAUSE THAT'S GONNA NEED TO BE DONE REGARDLESS OF HOW WE PAY FOR IT, CORRECT.
THAT ENGINEERING HAS TO BE DONE.
SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE ON THE 27TH, CORRECT? CORRECT.
ANYONE ELSE? UM, FROM THE COMMUNITY LIKE TO SPEAK KAREN BACHMAN, WARD FOUR? UH, I WASN'T PLANNING ON SPEAKING THIS EVENING, BUT HERE I AM.
UM, WE ARE AT GROUND ZERO, UNFORTUNATELY.
WE HAVE 17 WATER MAIN BREAKS ON THREE QUARTERS OF OUR STREET.
UH, WE JUST ACTUALLY FINISHED UP WITH OUR 17TH, UH, JUST A FEW DAYS AGO.
UM, WE HAD IT TWO DAYS IN A ROW CUZ UNFORTUNATELY ONE OF OUR NEIGHBORS, UM, THEIR SERVICE WASN'T RIGHT, SO THEY HAD TO COME BACK AND RE RE DIG.
UM, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ON RECORD HERE BECAUSE I HAVE NEIGHBORS, I HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE CONCERNED.
I HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE TEXTING ME ALL THE TIME ASKING ME WHAT EXACTLY ARE WE RECEIVING? BECAUSE I CAN TELL YOU I ATTEND MEETINGS, I DO MY RESEARCH, I LISTEN TO PEOPLE, WORDS DO COUNT.
SO I JUST WANT EVERYBODY TO KNOW WE'RE OUT HERE LISTENING TO YOU, WE'RE TAKING OUR CUES FROM WHAT YOU FOLKS ARE
[02:20:01]
SAYING AND WHAT YOUR STAFF IS SAYING.SO I CAN TELL YOU FROM LAST YEAR, FROM JULY, FROM MR. CHERKOWSKI, WHICH THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
AND MR. BERGMAN BEING AT MY, AT MY HOUSE ALONG WITH A FEW OTHER RESIDENTS AND A COUPLE COUNCIL PEOPLE, MR. G GLENN OTTO, AND MRS. KITCHEN, WHICH I APPRECIATE YOU COMING OVER.
WHAT IT, WHAT WAS STATED LAST JULY AND THEN WHAT WAS STATED IN NOVEMBER AND THEN WHAT WAS STATED IN DECEMBER AT THE TOWN HALL MEETING.
I KNOW WHAT WAS, WHAT WAS TOLD TO US AND WHAT WAS TOLD TO US IS THAT WE'RE RECEIVING NON ZINC COATED PIPING.
WE'RE GETTING DUCTILE CAST IRON PIPE WITH A BAGGING TO FOR THE CORROSIVE.
I CAN GIVE YOU THE TIMEFRAME FOR WHICH IT WAS STATED.
I'M, I DON'T REMEMBER SAYING THE BAGGING.
I KNOW AT ONE POINT WE SAID ON THE OTHER PROJECT, BUT THE YOURS WAS ALWAYS ENCODED AND THAT'S THE WHY.
THE TIME DELAY WAS WAITING FOR THAT PIPE.
I'M ONLY MERELY GOING BY, I'M NOT DISAGREEING WITH, BUT YOU'RE GETTING A BETTER PIPE.
SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE IT'S ON RECORD FOR EVERYBODY THAT'S LISTENING AND ALL MY NEIGHBORS THAT COULDN'T ATTEND TONIGHT THAT WE ARE GETTING ZINC CODED.
SINCE WE ARE IN GROUND ZERO AND WE HAVE VERY CORROSIVE SOIL AND WE HAVE HAD BREAKS BECAUSE OF THAT SOIL, I THINK IT'S HIGHLY IMPORTANT THAT WE HAVE ZINC CODED.
THE WHOLE PROJECT THAT WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW, THE FOUR AREAS OF THE, OF THE CITY, UH, ARE ALL GETTING ZINC CODED.
THE PIPES ALREADY BEEN DELIVERED DOWN AT THE WATER PLANT.
AND I CAN SHOW YOU, IT'S ALL ZINC CODED.
YOU CAN TELL BY THE END OF THE PIPE.
IT'S A, THE BELL PART OF THE PIPE HAS A ZINC HAS A, IT'S LIKE SILVER.
AND IT SHOULD SAY IT ON THE PIPE TOO.
UM, SO WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE, THE $6 MILLION EVERY 18 MONTH PLAN.
UM, WHEN WOULD THAT GET THE CITY TO A BREAK RATE THAT IS ROUGHLY 20 PER HUNDRED MILE? THAT'S ACTUALLY A QUESTION.
UM, THE, THAT RECOMMENDATION I BELIEVE IS PREDICATED ON THE NOTION, WELL I KNOW IT IS PREDICATED ON THE NOTION THAT THE BREAK RATE WILL CONTINUE TO SUBSIDE AND THE IMPACTS OF THE CHANGES THAT OCCURRED IN 2019.
WE'LL GO BACK TO THE PRE 2019 LEVELS AND IF THAT IS THE CASE, UH, THE BREAK RATE IN THE CITY PRE 2019 WAS ROUGHLY 21 AND A HALF, UH, BRAKES PER 100 MILES PER YEAR.
SO THE INVESTMENT STRATEGY WOULD STABILIZE THAT BREAK RATE AT THAT LEVEL.
UM, WE LOOKED AT A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT SCENARIOS, UH, WHERE THAT BREAK RATE WOULD THEN START TO DROP BELOW THAT LEVEL.
UM, AT THE END OF NEAR THE END OF THE PLANNING HORIZON, WHICH WAS 25 YEARS, WAS THE PLANNING HORIZON.
SO AROUND 20 THE YEAR 20 47, 20 48, UH, IS WHEN THE BREAK RATE WOULD BE BELOW PRE 2019 LEVELS.
NOW AGAIN, THIS BEARS VERY CLOSE MONITORING AND UM, I THINK WE, YOU KNOW, I WOULD NOT CERTAINLY GO ON RECORD AS SAYING YOU, WE CAN COMMIT TO THAT.
IT DOES REQUIRE AS IT DOES IN, IN EVERY WATER SYSTEM, UH, CONTINUED MONITORING OF THE BREAK RATE, UH, TO ENSURE.
BUT BASED ON THE INFORMATION THAT WE HAVE, THAT IS WHAT WE ARE PROJECTING.
SO IF EVERYTHING WORKS OUT REALLY WELL AND THE RATE COMES BACK DOWN TO PRE 19 LEVELS MM-HMM.
NO, IT WOULD BE AROUND 21 BREAKS PER HUNDRED MILES THROUGHOUT THAT ENTIRE DURATION.
THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT IT CAN RISE AND FALL.
I, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE WHAT THE CITY ENGINEER, UM, MENTIONED EARLIER.
SO THIS IS, UM, A LITTLE BIT OF A TECHNICAL DISTINCTION.
THE INVESTMENT, THE SPECIFIC PIPES THAT WE IDENTIFIED IN THE STUDY, WE HAD A PRIORITIZATION SYSTEM THAT WAS BASED ON RISK.
SO IT LOOKS AT NOT JUST THE RATE AT WHICH THE PIPES BREAK, BUT THE CONSEQUENCES OF THOSE PIPES.
SO PIPES THAT SERVE HOSPITALS, SCHOOLS, MULTI-FAMILY HOUSES, UH, ET CETERA, RECEIVE A HIGHER PRIORITY BECAUSE THE IMPACTS OF THOSE BREAKS
[02:25:01]
ARE HIGHER.UM, WE DID WHAT, UM, CITY ENGINEERS STATED IS HE WOULD LIKE TO AT LEAST START THIS PROGRAM BY TARGETING PIPES THAT HAVE THE HIGHEST BREAK RATE AND THAT IS CONSISTENT WITH WHAT MANY COMMUNITIES DO.
SOME COMMUNITIES PRIORITIZE BASED ON RISK.
OTHERS PRIORITIZE STRICTLY BASED ON THE BREAK RATE TO GET CONTROL OF THE BREAK RATE FIRST.
UM, AND SO THERE WILL BE VARIATIONS FROM WHAT WAS SPECIFICALLY STATED IN THE REPORT, IF THE IDEA IS TO TARGET PIPES WITH THE HIGHEST BREAK RATE FIRST.
ANYONE ELSE FROM THE COMMUNITY YOU'D LIKE TO SPEAKING? YES, KEVIN CARTER AGAIN.
I'M SORRY, I JUST GOT ANOTHER QUESTION.
SO JUST TO CLARIFY, ON THE 2022 WATER MAIN REPLACEMENT PROJECT, THE STREETS THAT ARE CURRENTLY LISTED FOR RE UH, REPLACEMENT, THEY ARE ALL GETTING ZINC CODED? YES.
IN MY RECOMMENDATION BEFORE ABOUT TRYING TO GET CLARITY ON EVERYTHING, CAN WE ALSO MAKE SURE WE GET A GREAT DIVIDING LINE BETWEEN THOSE TWO PROJECTS SO THAT WHENEVER THEY'RE DISCUSSED FOR MONEY TYPE OF PIPE AND EVERYTHING, CUZ SOMETIMES IT SEEMS LIKE THOSE TWO TOPICS GET BLENDED, WE JUST KIND OF SEEM TO CLASSIFY AS A WATER MAIN REPLACEMENT AND THEN IT COMES BACK LATER.
SO THAT'S RIGHT NOW, THE REASON WE'RE DOING THIS, THE 18 MONTHS BECAUSE, BUT TRYING TO BUDGET YEAR TO YEAR, WE FOUND THESE PROJECTS TAKE ABOUT 18 MONTHS.
SO IF WE, IF WE RUN THOSE CYCLES IN 18 MONTH CYCLES AND WE FUND THEM IN 18 MONTH CYCLES, UH, AS, AS BRIAN HAD MENTIONED, IT'LL BE A LOT EASIER TO TRACK WHAT FUNDING GOES WITH WHICH SPECIFIC PROJECT.
JUST ONE OF THEM OVERLAPPING, BUT, BUT I AGREE.
I THINK THAT'S THE WHOLE REASON WE'RE DOING THIS FUNDING.
SO AS WE GO FORWARD, WE MAKE SURE THAT WE YES.
CLEARLY SIGNIFY WHICH PROJECT WE'RE TALKING ON.
ONE OF THE THINGS WE'VE ASKED, UH, IS THAT WE HAVE A NEW METHOD TO IDENTIFY THESE PROJECTS.
SO ONCE COUNCIL COMMITS TO WHATEVER PATH FORWARD THAT WE CAN START IDENTIFYING THESE PROJECTS OUTSIDE OF WHAT WE'RE CURRENTLY DOING, WHICH IS BASED ON THE, THE BUDGET YEAR, BUT NOW THEY'RE FALLING INTO MULTIPLE CALENDAR YEARS.
SO WE RECOGNIZE THAT, AND, AND RIGHTLY SO, THERE IS CONFUSION WITHIN THE COMMUNITY ABOUT WHAT STREETS, ON WHAT PROJECT AND WHAT PROJECT GETS WHAT PIPE, BECAUSE NOW THEY'RE STARTING TO FALL INTO THE SAME CALENDAR YEARS, EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE DIFFERENT BUDGET CYCLES.
SO WE'RE, WE'RE NOT IGNORANT TO THE FACT THAT, THAT THAT CONFUSION IS OUT THERE.
WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING TO FIND A WAY, NOT THE PROJECT, I MEAN WE'RE 2023, BUT WE'RE TALKING 2022, SO CORRECT.
SO WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING TO FIND A WAY ELIMINATE ALL CONFUSION.
NOPE, WE'RE TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO DO THAT, DO THAT AS, AS WELL.
ANYONE ELSE? HI, I'M JANELLE SMITH AND I DO HAVE QUITE A FEW QUESTIONS.
UM, MY FIRST QUESTION IS A LITTLE OFF TOPIC.
I DIDN'T KNOW I WAS GONNA ASK THIS QUESTION, BUT AT 8 0 5, UM, MR. CAMPBELL TEXTED OR WROTE A NOTE TO COUNCILWOMAN BURGE AND BAKER, AND I WOULD ACTUALLY LIKE TO ASK FOR A PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST FOR THAT BECAUSE THAT IS, THAT IS SUBJECT TO PUBLIC RECORDS BEING THAT IT IS HAPPENING AT A MEETING.
WHAT, AND I THINK IT DOES HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH THIS TOPIC.
AND SO I'M GONNA ASK FOR A P R R FOR THAT RIGHT NOW.
NOTES AND THE APPROPRIATE PROCESS FOR A PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST WOULD NOT BE HERE, BUT YOU KNOW, THROUGH OUR PROCEDURES FOR SYNTHETIC WORK.
SO, UM, ON TOPIC, SO MY UNDERSTANDING IS THE EMRA, THE EMRA SOFT SOFTWARE USED TO MAP THE PERIMETER OF THE CITY, OF THE INFORMATION THAT YOU GOT, YOU CAME FROM THE CITY, CORRECT? UM, ARE THOSE, WERE THOSE NUMBERS, CURRENT NUMBERS? UH, THE INFORMATION ON THE PIPE ATTRIBUTES, YES.
CAME FROM THE, UH, MOST UP TO DATE, UH, INFORMATION SYSTEM THAT'S MAINTAINED BY THE CITY.
AND WHAT YEARS WE ACTUALLY USED THE SOFTWARE TO IDENTIFY, UH, IF THERE WERE ANY INCOHERENT OR MISSING VALUES.
WE IDENTIFIED THAT INFORMATION.
WE WORKED WITH THE CITY TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT INFORMATION WAS POPULATED.
SO THAT WAS, UM, I BELIEVE IN ROUGHLY JULY OR AUGUST OF LAST YEAR WHEN WE STARTED THE STUDY WAS THE MOST UP TO DATE INFORMATION, UH, THAT WE HAVE.
AND OF COURSE THE BREAK DATA, AS YOU KNOW, WE USED ALL THE WAY THROUGH, UM, JULY OF, UH, 2022 AS WELL.
SO THAT IS THE MOST UP-TO-DATE DATA? YES.
UM, YOU SAID THERE'S A SUBSEQUENT REPORT IS,
[02:30:01]
DO YOU KNOW WHERE IS THAT LOCATED? BECAUSE I DID TRY TO FIND THAT ON THE, ON THE WEBSITE.UH, THE LATEST VERSION OF THAT REPORT HAS BEEN POSTED.
IT HAS NOT BEEN UPDATED, UM, IN A NUMBER OF MONTHS.
UM, I DID MENTION THAT THERE WAS A QUESTION OR TWO THAT CAME UP AT THE COUNCIL MEETING ON FEBRUARY 21ST, UH, THAT WE DID SOME ADDITIONAL INVESTIGATION THAT WAS DISCUSSED THIS EVENING ABOUT WHAT, WHAT, UH, THE RESULT IN INVESTMENT RATE WOULD BE AFTER 2023 IF A, UH, INVESTMENT OF 19 MILLION WAS MADE IN 2023.
THAT INFORMATION WAS SENT TO THE CITY ENGINEER.
UM, WE ALSO FOLLOWED UP ON A COMMENT, UM, REGARDING THE POTENTIAL IMPACTS OF THE PANDEMIC.
WE ALSO DISCUSSED THAT THIS EVENING.
UM, AND THAT SPECIFIC INFORMATION, THAT ANALYSIS WAS ALSO SENT TO THE CITY ENGINEER.
UH, BUT WE WERE NOT INTENDING TO UPDATE THE REPORT WITH THE LATTER OF THOSE TWO COMMENTS.
I'D BE HAPPY TO UPDATE THE REPORT, UH, WITH THE INVESTMENT STRATEGY THAT INCLUDES THE 19 MILLION INVESTMENT, BUT THAT HAS NOT BEEN DONE AT THIS TIME.
UM, THE USER, YOU HIGH, THE HIGH USER RATE, UM, YOU, YOU GAVE US A REPORT YOU GAVE THE CITY A REPORT OF, OF WHO THE HIGHEST, UM, USER RATES IN THE CITY AS FAR AS COMPANIES, BUSINESSES AND SUCH.
DID THIS REPORT TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THE 1500, 2000 APARTMENTS THAT ARE COMING IN? BECAUSE I KNOW THAT LATER ON IN, IN YOUR REPORT YOU TALKED ABOUT AT, AT ONE ONE HOUR AND TWO MINUTES, YOU TALKED ABOUT, UM, THE, THE, THE IMPACT OF BIG PROJECTS COMING IN HERE, IT'S GONNA NEED TO ACCELERATE THIS PROGRAM OR THE WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING TO COUNSEL THIS EVENING THAT'S NOT, THAT IS NOT CORRECT.
GROWTH WILL NOT GROWTH IN THE CITY, UH, WILL NOT IMPACT THE REPLACEMENT RATE FOR EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE.
THAT WOULD BE NEW INFRASTRUCTURE AND WOULD NOT HAVE AN IMPACT ON, UH, THE REPLACEMENT OF EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE.
SO WOULD YOU RECOMMEND THAT THE CITY TRY TO USE C I P P AGAIN FOR THE WATER, WATER LINES? IS THAT, IS THAT A RECOMMENDATION THAT YOU APPROVE? NO, IT IS NOT.
SO WOULD IT SURPRISE YOU TO KNOW THAT IN 2020 THE CITY SPENT OVER $800,000 IN ON C I P P FOR OUR WATER CONSUMPTION PIPES? I'M NOT AWARE OF THAT.
THAT WAS NOT PART OF OUR STUDY.
CONCRETE PIPE IS USED FOR STORM SEWER, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WERE REFERRING TO.
SO AS I HEARD SOMEBODY TALK EARLIER ABOUT OUR SEWER LINES, I GUESS WE'RE HAVING SOME ISSUES WITH OUR SEWER LINES.
UM, CAN THE SEWER LINE FAILURES INFILTRATE OUR WATERS AND WATER LINES? SO FOR AN EXAMPLE, HOW FAR APART ARE THE WATER LINES VERSUS THE SEWER LINES? UH, THEY'RE SET 10 FEET APART AS PER EPA STANDARDS.
THAT'S NOT VERY DEPTH OR IS THAT THAT'S DEPTH CORRECT.
BUT AREN'T THE SEWER LINES SEWER, THEY HAVE TO BE 18 INCHES APART.
SO EARLIER YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT DEPTH OF THE SEWER.
I THOUGHT YOU SAID THEY WERE LIKE 10 FEET AND THAT'S WHY THAT WAS THE DEPTH OF SANITARY SEWER IS ABOUT 10 FEET NOW I'M TALKING ABOUT FROM WHERE THE SANITARY SEWER OVER, UH, 10 FEET AWAY FROM THAT ON THE STREET WOULD BE THE WATER MAIN HAS TO BE 10 FEET AWAY.
SO IT'S 10 FEET DEEP VERSUS HOW DEEPS THE WATER, MAIN WATER MAIN'S FOUR AND A HALF FEET.
AND WHERE THEY CROSSED THEY GOTTA BE A FOOT AND A HALF DIFFERENCE.
SO WITH ALL OF THE CORROSIVE SOIL THAT WE HAVE, THAT WE KNOW, HOW LONG HAVE WE KNOWN WE'VE HAD THIS KIND OF CORROSIVE SOIL LAST YEAR OR TWO? JUST LAST YEAR OR TWO.
SO, SO SINCE THE CITY'S BEEN PUTTING PIPE IN SINCE 1956, WE HAVE NEVER TESTED THE SOIL OR, OR CHECKED THE PIPES BECAUSE RIGHT NOW WE'RE AT THE, AT THE AGE THE, AT THE END OF THE AGE CYCLE.
SO, WELL, NO, I MEAN, DUCT DEL EVEN CAST IRON PIPE, IF YOU LOOK IT UP, IT USUALLY SAYS 60 TO 80, I THINK.
BUT YEAH, WE'RE CLOSE TO IT, BUT, UH, A LOT OF IT'LL GO STILL.
IT CAN GO WAY OVER EVEN WHAT THEY DO YOU THINK HUBBARD COULD GO WAY OVER? WELL, CERTAIN AREAS COULD.
WELL, RIGHT, BECAUSE THE AREA THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS YOUR, YOUR WARD FOUR, WHICH IS YOUR, YOUR
[02:35:01]
MOST CRITICAL AREA IT LOOKS LIKE, RIGHT? ACCORDING TO THE MAP AND ACCORDING TO THE CORROSIVE SOIL.SO I'M JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, IT CONCERNS ME GREATLY, YOU GUYS, MR. LYONS, WOULD YOU PLEASE INDULGE ME IN REPEATING WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT THE PROCESS AND THAT WE, WE MISSED THE BIDS FOR THE CONTRACTING THIS YEAR ALREADY? THAT MEANS THEY GOTTA WAIT TILL NEXT YEAR.
UM, NO, WE DON'T HAVE TO WAIT TILL NEXT YEAR.
BUT THE BIDDING PROCESS, JANUARY, FEBRUARY, MARCH COMES THROUGH.
SO CITY BUDGETS ALL START JANUARY ONE.
CONTRACTORS GET IN LINE FOR THEIR SCHEDULING FOR THE ENTIRE YEAR.
THEY LAY OUT THEIR WORK, UH, PRODUCT, THEIR EQUIPMENT AND ALL OF THAT.
SO WHEN WE DIDN'T, UH, SEND OUT THE BID, UH, WE'LL GO TO BIDDING OF CONTRACTORS AND THEN CHANCES ARE THE, UH, COST IS GOING TO GO UP BECAUSE THEY'VE ALREADY BID OUT THEIR YEAR.
UM, AND, UH, THE COST GOES UP.
AND THEN WHEN WE GET MOVED BACK TO THE END OF THE PROJECTS AT THE END OF THE YEAR AND THEN THERE'S MATERIALS BY, YEAH, IT'S, IT'S NOT A GOOD POSITION FOR A CITY TO BE IN.
AND WE SHOULD HAVE REALLY BEEN DOING THAT IN JANUARY.
BUT LIKE I MENTIONED, WE SENT OUT THE BIDS FOR THE, UH, SIDEWALK PROJECT INSTEAD OF THE WATER MAIN REPLACEMENT PROJECT AND COULD HAVE DONE SOONER.
UM, AS I WAS LISTENING TO THE FEBRUARY 21ST MEETING, UM, IT'S BEEN STATED OVER AND OVER THAT THE CITY'S BEEN SPENDING $1 MILLION A YEAR TO LAY NEW PIPES.
HOW, HOW MUCH PIPE INSTALLATION DOES 1 MILLION COVER? HOW MUCH PIPE DOES WHAT? 1 MILLION COVER? UH, HOW MANY FEET? PROBABLY, YEAH.
THE PROJECT WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW IS 1.7 OR 8 MILLION, AND THEN WE'RE DOING I THINK EIGHT TO 9,000 FEET.
AND WHERE, WHERE HAVE THOSE PIPES BEEN INSTALLED? WHERE THOSE, THE NEW PIPES THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ARE, ARE, IS THAT PERCENTAGE OF THE NUMBERS THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT NEW PIPES BEING INSTALLED, IS, IS ANY OF THAT NORTH OF TOWN OR IS THIS NEW PIPES LIKE THROUGHOUT WARD 4, 5, 3? THE CITY ISN'T INSTALLING ANY NEW PIPE.
I MEAN, THERE'S PIPES BEING INSTALLED BY DEVELOPERS, BUT UH, THE CITY ITSELF IS ONLY INSTALLING PIPE RIGHT NOW.
AND RIGHT AT THE MOMENT IT'S ON, UH, HOLBROOK AND HELWIG.
AND THAT'S THE FIRST OF THE FOUR WE'RE GONNA BE DOING.
AND IT'S GONNA TAKE SIX TO EIGHT WEEKS FOR EACH ONE OF THOSE SECTIONS.
UH, UH, HUBBARD IS THE NEXT ONE WE'RE GONNA BE WORKING ON.
BRIAN, COULD YOU GET, SO THERE WAS AN EMAIL THAT YOU SENT COUNSEL THAT SHOWED WHERE THOSE WATER LINE OR WATER MAIN REPLACEMENT PROJECTS HAVE HAPPENED BACK FROM I THINK 2011, 2012.
COULD WE, COULD WE GET THAT? BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S WHAT MS. SMITH IS TALKING ABOUT.
COULD WE GET THAT PARTICULAR MAP THAT SHOWS THE 2012 PROJECT, 2015, I THINK 2018 AND MAYBE 2020? I THINK IT GOES THROUGH 21, MAYBE 21.
YEAH, I THINK IT WAS LIKE FOUR DIFFERENT SECTIONS OUTLINED.
IT'S ALL IN, IT'S ALL SOUTH OF TOWN WHERE ALL OF THOSE REPLACEMENT PROJECTS HAPPENED SINCE 2011.
IS THAT, THAT'S THE MAP THAT YOU, YOU SENT TO COUNCIL? CORRECT.
COULD WE, COULD WE GET THAT ON THE CITY WEBSITE OR COULD WE MAKE THAT AVAILABLE FOR EVERYONE TO SEE WHAT HAS BEEN DONE SINCE 2011? SURE, WE CAN DO THAT.
UM, ALSO, UM, WE TALKED A LOT ABOUT, UH, YOU GUYS TALKED A LOT ABOUT, UM, ON THE FEBRUARY 21ST, THE, THE $1 MILLION PER YEAR IS PROACTIVE REPLACEMENT.
UM, IS, IS CHASING WATER MAIN BREAKS THROUGHOUT THE CITY, WOULD THAT BE CONSIDERED EFFICIENT AND PROACTIVE? UH, WHAT I CAN TELL YOU IS THAT WE DID LOOK AT THE BRAKE RATE OF PIPE THAT WAS REPLACED VERSUS THE BRAKE RATE OF, OR THE AVERAGE BRAKE RATE OF ALL THE PIPE IN THE SYSTEM.
AND THAT THE, UM, REPLACEMENT PROGRAM HAS BEEN EXTREMELY EFFECTIVE.
IN OTHER WORDS, THE BRAKE RATE OF THE PIPE THAT WAS REPLACED WAS ROUGHLY SEVEN TIMES HIGHER THAN THE AVERAGE BREAK RATE THROUGHOUT THE SYSTEM.
SO I WOULD CLASSIFY THE REPLACEMENT PROGRAM, UH, THAT WAS DESCRIBED OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS AS VERY EFFECTIVE.
UM, SO I, I LEARNED A LOT BY YOUR PRESENTATION ON THE 21ST OF FEBRUARY, AND I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME IN COMING HERE.
I I, I LEARNED MORE THAN I DID THE WHOLE TIME I WAS ON COUNCIL, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.
SO WHAT I FOUND WAS REALLY INTERESTING IS WHEN YOU WORKED FOR THE CITY OF, UM, COLUMBUS, YOU TALKED ABOUT HOW IMPORTANT IT WAS FOR ALL THE DEPARTMENT HEADS TO SPEAK TOGETHER
[02:40:01]
WHEN YOU'RE DOING A PROJECT LIKE THIS.AND THE, AND THE REASON WHY IS BECAUSE LOGISTICS, YOU KNOW, YOU GOTTA, YOU GOTTA MOVE YOUR SCHEDULES AROUND A LITTLE BIT, RIGHT? SO IT WOULDN'T BE VERY COST EFFECTIVE TO PROBABLY PAVE ROADS THAT YOU NEVER SPRING IN A LEAGUE LEFT AND RIGHT.
BUT UNFORTUNATELY, THAT'S WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING.
WE'VE BEEN PAVING ROADS AS WE, AS THE, AS THE RESIDENTS HERE HAVE BEEN SAYING, PLEASE STOP PAVING THE ROADS.
PLEASE STOP PAVING THE ROADS IN THE HIGH CRITICAL AREAS OF BREAKS.
YOU'RE, IT'S WASTING TAX DOLLARS.
I I BELIEVE HUBBARD, WHEN IT GOT REPAVED IN 2020, IT LASTED SIX DAYS.
GUYS, THAT'S, THAT'S A TRAVESTY.
I, I, I'M JUST REALLY DISAPPOINTED.
I, SO I, I DID WANNA TALK ABOUT, UM, SOME QUICK NUMBERS.
I BELIEVE IN 2018, THE CORRECT NUMBERS THAT WE RAISED, THE WATER RATE WAS 15% THE FIRST YEAR, 15% THE SECOND YEAR, AND 2.4% EVERY YEAR AFTER UNTIL WHENEVER.
SO NOW WE'RE GONNA DO ANOTHER RATE INCREASE POSSIBLY.
UM, I WHAT I'M, WHAT I'M REALLY DISAPPOINTED ABOUT YOU GUYS AND, AND I, WHAT I SEE HAS NOT CHANGED IS THAT, UM, THIS REPORT CAME BACK IN OCTOBER OF 2022.
IT'S TAKING FIVE MONTHS FOR YOU GUYS TO TALK ABOUT THIS, BUT YOU DIDN'T COME PREPARED.
NOT EVERYBODY'S GOT THE ANSWERS.
NOBODY'S GOT THE NUMBERS WE'RE THEY'RE ALL HERE WAITING ON FOR THE NUMBERS AND THERE'S NO, I HEARD THE WORD NO FOLLOW UP A COUPLE TIMES I HEARD UP, YOU KNOW, NO POLICY COST ANALYSIS FOR TONIGHT.
YOU'RE, YOU GUYS ARE JUST GONNA GUESS ERRORS WEREN'T CORRECTED BY THIS EVENING.
YOU, YOU COULDN'T GET WITH WARD FOUR.
WERE, WERE ALL, A LOT OF THESE WATER MAIN BREAKS ARE, AND, AND CORRECT AN ERROR THAT YOU MADE.
YOU DIDN'T THINK THAT WAS IMPORTANT TO MRS. KITCHEN AND HER AWARD NOT CARRYING A DECIBEL.
YOU GUYS, THIS IS A PROBLEM IN THIS CITY NOT CARRYING THE DECIBEL OVER.
I BELIEVE THAT HAPPENED IN 2017 AS WELL OF THIS SEVERAL MILLION DOLLAR MISTAKE.
WELL, I HOPE THAT YOU GUYS REALLY TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION SOME OF THE THINGS THAT THE RESIDENTS ARE REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT.
UM, IF THESE PIPES ARE AS OLD AS WHAT WE'RE BEING TOLD, THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN AN ACTION PLAN IN PLACE.
NOT LAST YEAR, NOT THE YEAR BEFORE THAT, MAYBE 30 YEARS AGO, RIGHT? I MEAN, THE WATER IN THE STREETS DEPARTMENT IS, IS YOUR BABY, RIGHT? YOU ARE THE SENIOR MOST COUNCIL MEMBER.
WHAT HAPPENED? HE COULD HAVE ALSO BEEN, I'LL JUST SAY THAT.
I MEAN, JANELLE, THIS COULD HAVE, YOU WERE ON COUNCIL IN 20 16, 20 17 AND 2018.
DID YOU EVER MAKE A RECOMMENDATION INCREASE WATER REPLACEMENT, WATER PIPELINE, ALL THIS STUFF? I MEAN THERE WAS THREE YEARS WAS NO VOTE.
THERE WERE THREE YEARS THAT YOU WERE ON COUNCIL AND YOU DIDN'T MAKE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS EITHER.
YEAH, BUT YOU KNOW, I, YOU, YOU GET, YOU PAY ENGINEERS, YOU PAY FOR STUDIES, YOU'RE WASTING TAX DOLLARS, YOU'RE WASTING TIME.
AND, AND FOR QUITE FRANKLY, YOU MIGHT EVEN BE PUTTING PEOPLE IN DANGER.
WHO KNOWS? I I I MEAN IF SOMEBODY TESTS POSITIVE FOR SERRATIA BACTERIA IN THEIR WATER, DON'T YOU THINK THAT'S A PROBLEM? DON'T YOU THINK PEOPLE MIGHT WANNA KNOW THAT? I WAS JUST ASKING ENGINEER IS IS DO WE HAVE A WATER QUALITY PROBLEM? NO, NOT AT ALL.
AND FROM THE STUDY, IT'S ALL CHECKED EPA, IT'S, IT'S ALWAYS CHECKED BY EPA.
I MEAN THEY DO TESTING EVERY DAY AND RESONANCE PAPER AT THE TABLE BEFORE.
I THINK WE HAVE A DISTRIBUTION PROBLEM, NOT NECESSARILY A QUALITY PROBLEM, BUT A DISTRIBUTION PROBLEM IS THE SAME WITH THE WATER FLOW PROBLEM.
WHEN IT BREAKS, YES, THERE CAN BE QUALITY ISSUES WITH THE WATER BECAUSE OF THE PRESSURE.
AND THAT'S WHY WE DO THE BOILER ADVISORIES.
BUT OUR PROBLEM IS MORE OF THE DISTRIBUTION.
IT'S THE, IT'S THE BREAKING OF THE PIPE.
AND THAT'S WHAT THIS DISCUSSION'S FOR, THAT'S WHAT THE STUDY'S FOR.
IT'S COMING UP WITH A PLAN TO FIX THE PIPE.
AND I THINK WE, WE ARE GOING TO MOVE FORWARD.
WE'RE GONNA HAVE LEGISLATION TO ENGINEER 36 MONTHS OF PIPE.
UH, WE'LL FUND PAYING FOR THE PIPE FOR THE ENGINEERING AND PUT IT TO BID AND IT'LL BE CONTRACTED AND INSTALLED AS QUICKLY AS IT CAN BE DONE.
I MEAN, THERE IS A PLAN IN PLACE, BUT YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU SAID ON FACEBOOK IS THAT, YOU KNOW, IT WAS A, RIGHT NOW, I, I DON'T THINK THEY'RE LOOKING FOR RIGHT NOW.
I THINK THEY'RE LOOKING FOR RIGHT? NOT RIGHT NOW.
[02:45:01]
IT IS RIGHT.IT, IT'S 8,000 FEET OF EIGHT INCH ZINC COATED PIPE WAS ORDERED.
IT'S AT THE WATER PLANT AND IT'S STATIONED AT HELWIG.
AND THAT'S WHAT'S BEING INSTALLED IN PHASE ONE OF THIS PROJECT.
THE PIPE THAT WAS ORDERED STARTING FOR PHASE TWO, THAT'S WHAT'S ORDERED, THAT'S FINISHED BEING ENGINEERED NOW IS ALL EIGHT INCH WATER MAIN ZINC CODED.
AND THAT'S THE STORY THIS WEEK.
IT CHANGES LIKE THE WEATHER IN OHIO.
SO COULD WE GET, I'M JUST GONNA, SO CAN WE GET AN INVOICE FROM THE PIPE COMPANY THAT SHOWS WHAT WE ORDERED? I MEAN, CUZ WE NEED TO PUT THIS TO BED TOO BECAUSE I MEAN IT IS, IF WE'VE ALL HAD THESE QUESTIONS, GIVE ME AN INVOICE THAT SHOWS WE ORDERED EIGHT INCH PIPE FOR X AMOUNT OF FEET THAT'S ZINC CODED.
AND THEN WOULD THAT, WOULD THAT BE SATISFACTORY? SO IF SOMEBODY'S GOT A RECORDING THAT SAYS STAFF AND MAYBE SOMEBODY ELSE SAID SOMETHING, OTHERWISE, WOULD THAT COUNT AS ANYTHING? EITHER? WELL, I'M LOOKING FOR THE INVOICE.
THE INVOICE SHOWS WHAT WE BOUGHT.
IF I GO TO MEYER AND I BUY SOMETHING, I GET A RECEIPT.
ANYONE ELSE LIKE TO COME TO THE PODIUM PLEASE? ANYTHING ELSE FROM COUNSEL? OKAY.