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HEY, GOOD EVENING EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO CITY HEBREW HEIGHTS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION.
TODAY'S DATE IS FEBRUARY 21ST, 2023.
NOW WE'RE GETTING STARTED AT 6:02 PM TODAY.
[1. Call Meeting To Order/Roll Call]
ITEM UP IS THIS MEETING IS OFFICIALLY CALLED TO ORDER.TONY, WOULD YOU CALL THE ROLL OF THIS EVENING, PLEASE? MR. SHAW? HERE.
AND, UH, JUST A NOTE, UM, MS. BAKER DID EMAIL TONY TO INFORM HIM THAT SHE WAS UNAVAILABLE THIS EVENING.
[2. Approval Of Minutes]
OUR APPROVAL OF MINUTES, WHICH IS OUR NUMBER TWO, ITEM TWO A FROM FEBRUARY 7TH, 2023.THOSE HAVE BEEN DISTRIBUTED TO EVERYONE.
UH, IF THERE ARE NO QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, CONCERNS, OR CORRECTIONS ON THOSE, THOSE MS. STAND AS APPROVED? ANYONE.
SO THOSE FEBRUARY 7TH MINUTES ARE APPROVED.
[ City Manager Report]
ITEM NUMBER THREE, WHICH IS OUR WORK SESSION, TOPICS OF DISCUSSION.AND ITEM THREE A IS A CITY MANAGER REPORT.
BRIAN, HOW ARE YOU THIS EVENING, SIR? I'M GOOD.
HOW ABOUT YOURSELF, SIR? VERY WELL, THANK YOU.
COUPLE OF ITEMS FOR COUNSELING THE COMMUNITY THIS EVENING.
UH, FIRST I WANNA LET, UH, EVERYONE KNOW THAT THE CITY'S AGE FRIENDLY LIVABILITY SURVEY IS SCHEDULED TO LAUNCH TOMORROW, FEBRUARY 22ND.
UM, ALSO ON, UH, MONDAY, FEBRUARY 27TH.
SPEAKING OF, UH, AGE FRIENDLY LIVABILITY, UH, STAFF WILL BE MEETING WITH REPRESENTATIVES FROM L WC.
UH, TO TRANSITION OUR NEW, UH, CIVIC CENTER PROJECT FROM CONCEPTUAL DESIGN TO, UH, TECHNICAL DESIGN, OUR CURRENT GOAL IS TO HAVE THE PROJECT READY FOR BID IN LATE 2023, EARLY 2024, UH, WITH CONSTRUCTION UNDERWAY, UH, IN SPRING OF 2024.
UH, SPEAKING OF CONSTRUCTION, UH, THE CITY IS CURRENTLY SCHEDULED TO CLOSE THIS FRIDAY ON, UH, 5,001 TAYLORSVILLE.
UH, IT'S THIS PIECE OF, UH, PROPERTY THAT WILL BE THE FUTURE HOME OF OUR PUBLIC WORKS OPERATIONS.
AND THEN, UH, LAST BUT NOT LEAST, UH, WOULD LIKE TO, UH, LET FOLKS KNOW THAT ON SAT SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 25TH, UH, THE CITY OF HUBER HEIGHTS POLICE DEPARTMENT WILL BE HOSTING, UM, A, UH, CHILDREN'S BOOK EVENT.
UH, THE BOOK IS, UH, CONSENT NINJA AND, UH, IS ABOUT, UH, SAFETY BOUNDARIES AND EMPOWERING CHILDREN.
UH, THE EVENT WILL BE AT 10 30, UH, HOSTED AT THE HUBER HEIGHTS POLICE DIVISION.
AND THAT'S, UH, 61 21 TAYLORSVILLE.
AND, UH, A FREE BOOK WILL BE GIVEN OUT TO THOSE WHO ATTEND.
UH, RESERVATIONS ARE, UH, REQUESTED BUT NOT REQUIRED.
AND, UH, FOLKS CAN REACH OUT TO OFFICER LAMBERT, UH, VIA THE CITY'S WEBSITE, UH, EITHER BY EMAIL OR BY PHONE.
HAVE ANY ANSWER, ANY QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS THAT COUNCIL MIGHT HAVE, SIR.
ANYONE HAVE ANYTHING FOR BRIAN? OKAY.
[ Disposal Of Surplus Vehicles]
NEXT IS ITEM THREE B, WHICH IS OUR DISPOSAL OF SURPLUS VEHICLES.UH, THIS PARTICULAR ITEM IS BEFORE COUNCIL.
AS YOU WERE AWARE, WE ARE NOW, UH, PARTICIPATING IN THE ENTERPRISE, UH, EQUITY FLEET LEASE PROGRAM.
AND SO WE'RE GETTING READY TO REPLACE A NEW BATCH OF VEHICLES.
AND, UH, AS THOSE VEHICLES WERE ARRIVING, WE NEED TO DISPOSE OF THE ONES WE HAVE.
AND THIS LEGISLATION WILL HELP US, US, UH, GET RID OF THAT NEXT BATCH OF VEHICLES, UH, THAT ARE BEING REPLACED BY THE, UH, EQUITY PROGRAM.
WE WOULD ASK THE COUNCIL OF PROOF OF LEGISLATION ON MONDAY, UH, FOR THE DISPOSAL OF THESE VEHICLES.
IS THERE ANY, UH, QUESTIONS FOR BRIAN OR ANY COMMENTS, ANY OBJECTIONS TO MOVING THIS ON? OKAY, SEEING NOW, MOVE THIS TO MONDAY AND NEXT
[ Water Utility Study Presentation]
UP ITEM THREE C, WHICH IS OUR WATER UTILITY STUDY PRESENTATION.AND BEFORE WE GET TO RUSS, I JUST WANNA KIND OF MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE KNOWS, AND IF ANYONE IS, UH, UH, WATCHING THIS EVENING, YOU THAT THAT'S NOT HERE.
IT'S, TONIGHT'S INFORMATION IS BASICALLY THE DOWNLOAD OF ALL THE INFORMATION THAT WE HAVE FROM THIS STUDY.
AND THEN WE HAVE ESTABLISHED ON MARCH THE 15TH THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO HAVE KIND OF A TOWN HALL, A TOWN HALLS, JUST SPECIFIC TO THIS, UH, WATER UTILITY DISCUSSION.
SO IF THERE'S ANYBODY WHO HAS ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS OR WE'RE REALLY KIND OF DELVING INTO, UH, INFORMATION, ANY KIND OF GREATER DETAIL, WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE IN THE COMMUNITY HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO SO.
AND THAT'S WHAT THE PURPOSE OF OUR MARCH 15TH, UH, TOWN HALL MEETING REGARDING ALL THIS INFORMATION IS.
SO THIS IS JUST A GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR US AS THE COUNCIL TO GET THE INFORMATION OUT OF THAT REPORT, UM, FROM THE ENGINEERING FIRM THAT DID THAT.
AND, UH, AND WE CERTAINLY, OBVIOUSLY WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, CERTAINLY, UH, TO ANSWER AND GET CLARIFICATION.
BUT WE'RE GONNA HAVE A MEETING SPECIFICALLY FOR THE COMMUNITY ON MARCH 15TH.
UH, SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, RUSS, UH, WE'LL HAND THIS OVER TO YOU.
AND THEN KIND OF, UH, TONIGHT I'D JUST LIKE TO INTRODUCE, UH, KEVIN CAMPANELLA FROM ESSON NIEL, AND HE IS HERE TO DO OUR WATER INTEGRITY STUDY.
UH, MAYOR GORE, MEMBERS OF COUNCIL AND OTHER CITY OFFICIALS, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE HERE TONIGHT FOR YOUR ATTENTION.
IT'S A PRIVILEGE TO BE HERE AND TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE WATER DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM INTEGRITY STUDY THAT WE DID, UH, OVER ABOUT THE LAST YEAR OR SO.
UM, IT'S, I, I THINK RUSS WARN YOU IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT LONG.
45 MINUTES, I THINK WAS HIS WARNING.
WE'RE GONNA TRY TO KEEP IT TO ABOUT 30 MINUTES OR LESS, BUT I'M CERTAINLY HAPPY TO TAKE AS MUCH TIME AS YOU NEED IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS AS WE GO ALONG OR AT THE END, UM, UNDERSTANDING AGAIN THAT WE
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HAVE THAT MEETING ON THE 15TH NEXT MONTH.UH, MY NAME IS KEVIN CAMPANELLA.
I WORK FOR A COMPANY CALLED BURGESS AND NIEL.
I'VE BEEN THERE FOR ABOUT EIGHT YEARS.
UM, AND I AM THE UTILITY PLANNING AND ASSET MANAGEMENT LEADER FOR BURGESS AND NIEL, UH, ACROSS THE, EXCUSE ME, ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
UH, WE'VE DONE A NUMBER OF PROJECTS SIMILAR TO THE ONE THAT WE, UH, ARE WRAPPING UP HERE FOR THE CITY OF HUBER HEIGHTS.
UH, WATER MAIN REPLACEMENT PLANNING PROJECTS THAT WE'VE DONE, UH, SPAN A LOT OF LOCAL UTILITIES IN ADDITION TO HUBER HEIGHTS, WE'VE DONE SOME WORK IN WESTERVILLE AND WITH SOME OTHER OHIO COMMUNITIES.
WE'VE ALSO DONE THIS WORK AS FAR AWAY AS IN ANCHORAGE, ALASKA.
WE'VE BEEN DOING, UH, MANAGING THEIR WATER MAIN REPLACEMENT PLAN FOR ABOUT SEVEN YEARS NOW.
AND IF YOU CAN IMAGINE IN ANCHORAGE, ALASKA, WHERE, UH, PIPES ARE BURIED ANYWHERE FROM EIGHT TO 12 FEET AND THE COST OF A WATER MAIN REPLACEMENT, UH, IS ABOUT 10 TO 20 TIMES MORE EXPENSIVE THAN IT IS HERE IN HUBER HEIGHTS.
YOU CAN IMAGINE THERE'S A GREAT DEAL OF IMPORTANCE PLACED ON THAT.
AND SO, UM, WE USE ONLY THE BEST TOOLS THAT WE CAN.
WE'VE GOT A LOT OF EXPERIENCE WITH THOSE TOOLS AND WE APPLY THEM HERE.
AND PART OF WHAT I WANT TO EXPRESS TO YOU TODAY, UM, IS THAT WE HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF CONFIDENCE, UH, IN THE OUTCOMES OF THIS STUDY AS A RESULT OF THAT.
ALRIGHT, UM, I THINK EVERYBODY KNOWS WHY WE'RE HERE.
THE DRIVERS FOR THIS STUDY, OF COURSE, ARE THE BIG UPTICK IN BREAKS THAT HAVE OCCURRED THROUGHOUT, UH, THE CITY, REALLY STARTING IN ABOUT 2019, FROM 2010 TO 2019 OR OR TO 2018.
AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE SCREEN HERE, THE NUMBER OF BREAKS THROUGHOUT THE CITY WAS FAIRLY STABLE, RIGHT AROUND 45 BREAKS PER YEAR, UM, UNTIL 2019, AN UPTICK TO 75, AND THEN OF COURSE, IN TWENTY TWENTY, A HUNDRED FIFTY SIX.
THANKFULLY, THAT NUMBER HAS BEEN DROPPING SINCE THEN, BUT STILL IT'S NOT BACK TO THOSE PRE 2019 LEVELS.
UM, WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE CAUSES OF THAT SPIKE, WHETHER WE ANTICIPATE THOSE CAUSES CONTINUING OR NOT, AND THEN HOW WE USE THIS INFORMATION TO PREDICT THE FUTURE PERFORMANCE OF THE SYSTEM IN TERMS OF NUMBER, EXCUSE ME, NUMBER OF BREAKS, UH, BECAUSE IT'S IMPORTANT OBVIOUSLY WHEN WE, UH, WE'RE EXAMINING WHAT LEVEL OF EFFORT, WHAT LEVEL OF RESOURCE INVESTMENT NEEDS TO TAKE PLACE IN THE FUTURE.
WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE DIDN'T OVER PREDICT WHAT THE FUTURE BREAK RATE WILL BE.
SO JUST TO GET A, A BENCHMARK OF WHERE THE CITY IS IN TERMS OF ITS BREAK RATE, UH, WE LOOKED AT THE AMERICAN WATERWORKS ASSOCIATION ANNUAL BENCHMARKING STUDY THAT WAS DONE IN 2019.
WE CHOSE 2019 BECAUSE DATA FROM 2020 AND, AND SO DURING AND POST PANDEMIC IS NOT AS RELIABLE AS, AS ANYTHING BEFORE THAT.
SO 2019 DATA, UH, WE LOOKED AT THE AVERAGE BREAK RATE FOR OTHER COMMUNITIES AROUND THE COUNTRY.
UM, THOSE BREAK RATES ARE SHOWN IN THIS TABLE HERE.
IT'S BROKEN DOWN INTO 75TH PERCENTILE.
PERFORMANCE, MEDIAN PERFORMANCE, 25TH PERCENTILE PERFORMANCE, 75TH PERCENTILE PERFORMANCE.
YOU CAN SEE ANNUAL BREAK RATES ANYWHERE FROM 1.5 TO 2.5.
THAT'S IN BRAKES PER 100 MILES IN THEIR SYSTEM PER YEAR FOR THE MEDIAN 5.8 TO 8.7 25TH PERCENTILE, 11.1 TO 18.4.
ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THAT TABLE, YOU CAN SEE THE HUBER HEIGHTS BRAKE RATE PRE 2019 BEFORE THE SPIKE IN BRAKE RATE WAS ALREADY VERY, VERY HIGH AT 21.4, SO AROUND THE 20TH PERCENTILE PERFORMANCE.
SO IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT EVEN BEFORE THAT BREAK RATE SPIKED IN 2019 AND BEYOND, THERE'S A HIGH BREAK RATE THAT IS PERSISTENT, UH, SINCE 2010.
AND SO, SO THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE WILL ULTIMATELY COME TO IN TERMS OF INVESTING AND REPLACING PARTS OF THIS, THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM, I THINK WOULD BE JUSTIFIED WITH OR WITHOUT THAT SPIKE THAT WE SAW POST 2019.
UH, ANOTHER SORT OF PRECURSOR TO THIS IS JUST UNDERSTANDING WHY CONTROLLING THE BREAK RATE IS IMPORTANT.
AND WHAT IS ON THE SCREEN RIGHT NOW IS A GRAPHIC, UH, THAT CAME FROM A STUDY THAT WAS PUBLISHED BY THE WATER RESEARCH FOUNDATION, UH, ABOUT FIVE YEARS AGO.
AND THE PURPOSE OF THIS STUDY WAS TO TRY TO DETERMINE WHAT THE, UH, OVERALL SORT OF COMPREHENSIVE COSTS OF WATER MAIN BREAKS ARE.
WE UNDERSTAND THAT WHEN THERE'S A BREAK, UM, YOUR CONTRACT OPERATOR GOES, PERFORMS A REPAIR, THERE'S A COST TO THEM, THAT'S CALLED THE DIRECT REPAIR COST.
AND THAT DIRECT REPAIR COST IS ANYWHERE FROM SAY, TWO TO $3,000 ON AVERAGE.
THAT NUMBER ON THE, ON THIS GRAPHIC HERE WOULD BE REPRESENTED BY THE DARK BLUE SECTION OF EACH
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OF THOSE BARS, WHICH IS ON THE LEFTMOST SIDE OF EACH OF THOSE BARS.AND WHAT THIS STUDY SHOWS IS THAT, THAT DIRECT REPAIR COST IS ONLY A FRACTION, MAYBE 20% OF THE OVERALL COST TO THE COMMUNITY.
THERE'S A COST IN SURFACE RESTORATION WHEN YOU DO AN EXCAVATION, IF IT'S UNDER A ROADWAY, AS MOST PIPES ARE, YOU HAVE TO RESURFACE THAT ROADWAY.
THERE'S ALSO THE POSSIBILITY FOR TRAFFIC DISRUPTION, PROPERTY DAMAGE, UM, SERVICE INTERRUPTIONS CAN BE A MAJOR FACTOR BECAUSE YOU NEED TO SHUT THE PIPE DOWN TO SAFELY DO THE REPAIR.
AS YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WILL BE OUT OF SERVICE.
THERE'S A COST RELATED TO THAT AND ALL OF THESE THINGS.
THIS STUDY TRIED TO QUANTIFY THAT IN TERMS OF DOLLARS.
AND THIS IS WHAT THE RESULT LOOKS LIKE.
THE GOOD NEWS IN ALL OF THIS IS THAT MOST BREAKS UP TO EVEN SAY THE 95TH PERCENTILE BREAKS ARE FAIRLY LOW COST BREAKS.
THEY'RE VERY, VERY FEW BREAKS IN THE SYSTEM THAT ARE JUST THE REAL DOOZIES THAT ARE GONNA COST, YOU KNOW, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS IN TERMS OF OVERALL COMMUNITY COSTS.
MOST COSTS ARE VERY LOW, BUT IT IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS, THERE ARE IMPACTS TO THE COMMUNITIES THAT GO WELL BEYOND JUST THE DIRECT COST OF A REPAIR.
SO WITH THAT, I'M GOING TO, I'M GOING TO SUMMARIZE THE REPORT THAT WE PUT TOGETHER.
UM, I BELIEVE THE MOST RECENT VERSION OF THAT REPORT WAS RECENTLY PUBLISHED LAST WEEK ON, UH, THE CITY'S WEBSITE.
SO YOU HAVE ACCESS TO THE MOST RECENT, UH, FINAL REPORT.
WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM, THE ATTRIBUTES OF THE PIPES THAT CONTRIBUTE TO THE BREAK RATE ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, EITHER A LOWER OR A HIGHER BREAK RATE.
WE'LL REVIEW THE HISTORICAL BRAKE DATA IN THE CITY.
WE'LL TALK ABOUT HOW WE PREDICT FUTURE BREAKS, AND THEN HOW WE USE OUR UNDERSTANDING OF HOW FREQUENTLY PIPES WILL BREAK.
AND COUPLE THAT WITH THE CONSEQUENCE OF THOSE BREAKS TO REALLY TRY TO QUANTIFY WHAT THE OVERALL RISKS ARE, THE, THE RISK EXPOSURE, IF YOU WILL, THAT YOU HAVE IN THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM, AND THEN HOW WE USE THAT RISK EXPOSURE INFORMATION TO TRY TO PRIORITIZE WHERE YOUR INVESTMENTS SHOULD BE.
UH, AND THEN WE'LL REVIEW SOME OF THE REPLACEMENT STRATEGIES THAT WE DEVELOPED IN THE REPORT.
THEY ARE IN THE MOST RECENT VERSION OF THE REPORT.
AND FINALLY, WE'LL JUST WRAP UP, UH, WITH THE REVIEW OF THE RECOMMENDED CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS PLAN.
SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM.
UM, FIRST WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE AGE OF THE SYSTEM, THE YEAR OF INSTALLATION.
THIS IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE PIPES DEGRADE OVER TIME, AS YOU WOULD EXPECT, ESPECIALLY IN CORROSIVE SOILS.
AND SO WE PLOT, WHAT WE HAVE HERE IN THIS GRAPHIC IS A PLOT OF THE NUMBER OF MILES OF PIPE THAT HAVE BEEN INSTALLED ON A YEAR TO YEAR BASIS.
UH, THE LEFT SIDE OF THAT GRAPH ON THE BOTTOM AXIS IS THE YEARS OF INSTALLATION STARTS ABOUT 1956 AND MOVES ACROSS TO, UH, 2022.
AND THE, UM, THE Y AXIS THERE, THE BLUE BARS REPRESENT THE LENGTH OF PIPE THAT WAS INSTALLED BY YEAR, UH, THAT GOLD, I THINK GOLD COLORED
WHAT'S IMPORTANT HERE IS THAT ABOUT 60 TO 65% OF THE SYSTEM WAS INSTALLED BY PRE 1980, WHICH, UM, WHICH IS IMPORTANT, OBVIOUSLY THE OLDER THE PIPES ARE, THE MORE LIKELY A PIPE IS TO BREAK BECAUSE IT'S BEEN IN THE GROUND AND BEEN DEGRADING.
SO THIS IS ONE FACTOR THAT HAS UNFORTUNATELY LED TO, UM, THAT HIGH BRAKE RATE.
WE LOOK AT PIPE DIAMETER AS WELL.
PIPE DIAMETER IS ACTUALLY A SURROGATE FOR AN UNDERSTANDING OF HOW THICK THE WALL OF A PIPE IS.
SO GENERALLY SPEAKING, LARGER PIPES CARRY MORE FLOW AT HIGHER PRESSURES.
AND SO THE WALL THICKNESS IS HIGHER FOR A LARGER PIPE, AND THEY USUALLY DEGRADE A LOT SLOWER.
WHAT THAT MEANS IS THE SMALLER PIPES WILL HAVE A HIGHER BREAK RATE.
THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT SMALLER PIPES ALSO HAVE A SMALLER CONSEQUENCE, SO THEY SERVE FEWER PEOPLE.
THERE'S LESS LIKELIHOOD OF PROPERTY DAMAGE AS A RESULT OF A, A PIPE BREAK ON, SAY, A SIX INCH OR AN EIGHT INCH MAIN, BUT THEY WILL BREAK MORE FREQUENTLY.
AND SO WE'VE GOT ABOUT 80% OF THE SYSTEM AS SIX TO EIGHT INCH PIPE.
AND SO THAT IS ANOTHER CONTRIBUTING FACTOR TO THE BRAKE RATE, TO THE HIGH BRAKE RATE THAT YOU SEE IN THE CITY.
UM, ANOTHER IMPORTANT FACTOR, OF COURSE, IS THE MATERIAL.
DIFFERENT MATERIALS WILL DECRE, EXCUSE ME, DEGRADE DIFFERENTLY.
THEY'LL HOLD UP TO, TO PRESSURES DIFFERENTLY AND SO FORTH BECAUSE OF THEIR DIFFERENT CHEMICAL PROPERTIES AND PHYSICAL PROPERTIES.
SO WE, WE DID LOOK AT THE THREE, UH, MATERIALS.
SO IT'S PREDOMINANTLY AN IRON SYSTEM.
UM, THIS GRAPHIC OR THE TABLE ON THE LEFT SHOWS THAT 44% OF THE SYSTEM IS THE OLDER CAST IRON PIPE.
THE DUCTILE IRON PIPE, 111 MILES, THAT, THAT, EXCUSE ME, 111 MILES REPRESENTS ABOUT 53% OF THE SYSTEM.
AND THEN THE PRESTRESS CONCRETE CYLINDER
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PIPE, WHICH IS THE LARGER OLDER PIPE IN THE SYSTEM, THE SORT OF THE BACKBONE OF THE SYSTEM, IT'S ONLY SIX MILES AND IT ONLY REPRESENTS ABOUT 3% OF THE SYSTEM.WHAT'S SHOWN ON THE RIGHT OF THAT SLIDE, UH, IS, IS THE, THE MAP OF THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM, JUST COLOR CODED BY MATERIAL.
AND SO YOU CAN SEE THE RED LINES THERE, THAT'S THE CAST IRON PIPE.
IT'S CENTRAL TO THE CITY AND THE OLDER PARTS OF THE CITY BECAUSE BETWEEN ABOUT THE, THE MID FIFTIES TO ABOUT THE MID TO LATE SEVENTIES, THAT'S WHEN CAST IRON PIPE WAS PREDOMINANTLY USED.
UM, AFTER THAT IT WAS MAINLY DUCTILE IRON.
THAT'S THE GREEN PIPE ON THAT GRAPHIC.
AND SO IT'S AROUND THE PERIMETER OF THE SYSTEM.
AND THEN THERE'S A YELLOW LINE THAT SORT OF CUTS NORTH SOUTH, UM, THROUGH THE CITY.
AND THAT'S THE PRESTRESS CONCRETE CYLINDER PIPE, ABOUT 16 TO 20 INCHES IN DIAMETER.
THERE ARE OTHER FACTORS THAT CAN IMPACT THE BREAK RATE.
WE'LL TALK ABOUT SOIL CORROSIVITY.
UH, WE'LL ALSO TALK ABOUT CHANGES IN WATER PRESSURE, LARGE CHANGES IN PRESSURE.
UM, WE'LL WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT.
UM, AND THEN AS WELL AS INSTALLATION PRACTICES.
SO THE, THE KEY CHALLENGE IS, UH, UH, THE MAJORITY OF WHAT WE WERE REALLY TRYING TO STUDY IS HOW THOSE PARAMETERS, AGE SIZE, MATERIAL, SOIL CORROSIVITY, CHANGES IN PRESSURE INSTALLATION PRACTICES, HOW DO THEY IMPACT THE BREAK RATE AND HOW CAN WE USE THAT INFORMATION TO PREDICT FUTURE BREAKS? IT'S VERY, VERY COMPLEX.
CORROSIVITY DOESN'T IMPACT EACH PIPE MATERIAL THE SAME WAY SOIL SOILS CAN BE CORROSIVE TO METAL AND NON-CORROSIVE TO CONCRETE WATER PRESSURE.
CHANGES IN PRESSURE CAN HAVE A BIGGER IMPACT, SAY, ON CAST IRON COMPARED TO DUCTAL IRON, BECAUSE AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, JUST BY THE, THE NAME DUCTAL IRON, IT'S MORE FLEXIBLE AND IT CAN FLEX FOR PRESSURES WHERE CAST IRON IS A LITTLE MORE, LITTLE BIT MORE BRITTLE.
I WON'T GET INTO ALL THE DETAILS TODAY.
SOME OF THEM ARE IN THE REPORT AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT MORE ON THE 15TH.
BUT, BUT JUST TO BE CLEAR, WE KNOW IT'S COMPLEX AND WE WANTED TO USE A PREDICTIVE TOOL THAT WAS SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO LOOK AT THESE PARAMETERS.
WE USED A SOFTWARE CALLED INFRAST.
I CAN TELL YOU I HAD IT IN MY INTRODUCTORY SLIDE.
I DIDN'T COVER IT, BUT I AM THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE ASSET MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE FOR THE AMERICAN WATER.
SO WATERWORKS ASSOCIATION, WE TALK ABOUT THIS ALL THE TIME.
WE HAVE 15 PRESENTATIONS AT OUR ANNUAL CONVENTION EVERY YEAR ABOUT PREDICTING WATER MAIN BREAKS BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A BIG ISSUE AROUND THE COUNTRY.
AND I CAN TELL YOU, I BELIEVE THIS IS THE BEST PREDICTIVE MODEL ON THE MARKET, AND THAT'S WHY WE CHOSE TO USE IT FOR THIS STUDY.
SO WE USED INFORMATION SPECIFIC TO THE HUBER HEIGHTS SYSTEM ABOUT THE, THE DIFFERENT PARAMETERS FOR, FOR THE PIPES, THE BRAKE DATABASE, UH, THAT THE CITY HAS.
WE, WE FED IT INTO THIS SOFTWARE.
I CAN TELL YOU THERE ARE GOOD QUALITY CONTROL FEATURES ON THIS SOFTWARE, UM, THAT ALLOW US TO SEE WHERE THERE MAY BE A DATA QUALITY ISSUE.
IF THERE IS A MATERIAL THAT IS NOT, UH, POPULATED FOR A SPECIFIC PIPE, WE KNOW ABOUT IT AND WE'LL GO BACK TO THE CITY AND SAY, DO YOU REALLY KNOW WHAT THIS IS? UH, IN TERMS OF MATERIAL? AND IT'S JUST NOT IN THE DATABASE.
IF WE SEE, UH, THERE WAS A PIPE THAT HAS AN ABANDONMENT DATE THAT PRECEDES ITS INSTALLATION DATE, WE KNOW THERE'S SOME SORT OF AN ERROR THERE.
ALL OF THIS TO SAY WE TOOK A VERY HARD LOOK AT THE DATA QUALITY TO AVOID THE WHOLE GARBAGE IN, GARBAGE OUT.
AND WHAT I CAN TELL YOU IS THERE WAS NOTHING
AS YOU'LL SEE IN THE, ON THE NEXT, UH, SLIDE, WE HAD, UH, REALLY KUDOS TO, UM, CHIEF ENGINEER AT BERGMAN AND HIS STAFF, ONE OF THE BEST DATABASES WE'VE EVER WORKED WITH.
SO COMPLIMENTS TO, TO THE CITY IN THAT REGARD.
UH, THIS MODEL USES MACHINE LEARNING ALGORITHMS AND ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE COMPONENTS TO PREDICT FUTURE BREAKS.
IT SOUNDS REALLY COMPLICATED, IT'S NOT THAT COMPLICATED.
WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT IF YOU'D LIKE, BUT IT'S REALLY JUST TRYING TO COME UP WITH THESE CORRELATIONS BETWEEN THOSE FACTORS THAT IMPACT BREAKS AND REALLY SEE HOW CLOSELY THEY ARE TIED, UH, TO THE PERFORMANCE OF THE PIPES.
UM, WE STARTED WITH A VERY GOOD DATABASE.
97 AND A HALF PERCENT OF THE PIPES IN THE CITY'S DATABASE HAD A KNOWN INSTALLATION DATE.
90 OVER 99% HAD A KNOWN MATERIAL, A HUNDRED PERCENT OF THE PIPES HAD A KNOWN DIAMETER.
AND THEN WORKING WITH THE CITY WHERE WE WERE ABLE TO POPULATE ALL OF THOSE.
UM, AND SO WE WENT IN WITH A COMPLETE DATA SET, WHICH IS UNHEARD OF.
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HATS OFF, UH, TO THE CITY FOR THAT.IN ADDITION TO THAT, SOMETHING THAT WAS VERY UNUSUAL ABOUT THIS STUDY THAT WE DON'T TYPICALLY SEE IS THAT THE CITY MAINTAINED REALLY GOOD INFORMATION ABOUT ABANDONED PIPE, WHICH A LOT OF CITIES JUST WHEN THEY ABANDON, UH, WATER MAINS, THEY'LL GET RID OF THE DATA ASSOCIATED WITH THEM.
WELL, IF YOU'RE TRYING TO PREDICT HUMAN LONGEVITY, FOR EXAMPLE, AND YOU DISCARDED ALL THE INFORMATION ABOUT EVERYBODY WHO IS GONE BEFORE US AND JUST USED INFORMATION ABOUT PEOPLE WHO WERE ALIVE, YOU'D SAY, WE'RE ALL GONNA LIVE FOREVER CUZ NOBODY DIES, RIGHT? I LOOK IN THE MIRROR EVERY DAY, I KNOW THAT'S NOT TRUE
UM, BUT USING INFORMATION ABOUT PAST BREAKS IS, IT'S A VERY SIMILAR ANALOGY.
IT HELPS US PREDICT FUTURE PERFORMANCE OF PIPES.
AND SO AGAIN, UH, JUST HATS OFF TO THE CITY FOR THEIR DATA MANAGEMENT PRACTICES.
WE USE THAT INFORMATION PRIMARILY TO PREDICT FUTURE BREAKS THAT INFORMATION ON ABANDONED WATER MAINS.
BUT WE CAN ALSO TAKE A LOOK AT IT TO SEE HOW EFFECTIVE THE REPLACEMENT PROGRAM HAS BEEN.
SO THE CITY, I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO NOTE THE CITY HAS BEEN PROACTIVELY REPLACING WATER MAINS.
I THINK EVERY OTHER YEAR, ABOUT A MILLION DOLLAR INVE INVESTMENT OVER THE PAST DECADE OR MORE, UM, HAS GONE INTO WATER MAIN REPLACEMENTS.
AND WHAT THIS GRAPHIC ON THE SCREEN SHOWS IS THE BRAKE RATE BETWEEN ABANDONED PIPES, THAT'S THE LEFT RED BAR AND THE BRAKE RATE OF CURRENTLY ACTIVE PIPE.
SO WHAT THIS SAYS IS THE REPLACEMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN DONE ALREADY HAVE BEEN EXTREMELY EFFECTIVE.
THEY'VE TARGETED THE RIGHT PIPE.
SO THE BRAKE RATE OF THAT ABANDONED PIPE WAS FIVE TIMES, OR SORRY, SEVEN TIMES THE BRAKE RATE OF THE AVERAGE OF THE STILL ACTIVE WATER MAINS.
SO THEY'VE TARGETED THE RIGHT PIPE.
SO THAT'S, THAT IS GOOD NEWS GOING FORWARD.
UM, AND WITH THAT, WE'RE GONNA SWITCH NOW TO HOW WE USE THAT INFORMATION TO PREDICT FUTURE BREAKS.
SO I DON'T THINK IT'S A MYSTERY.
I THINK EVERYONE, UH, IS PROBABLY AWARE OF THE FACT EXCEPT FOR A BIG SPIKE IN THE AREA NORTH OF I 70.
A PREDOMINANT, UH, NUMBER OF BREAKS OCCURS IN THE SORT OF THE CORE OF THE, OF THE CITY IN THE CENTRAL PARTS OF THE CITY.
UM, WE LOOKED AT THIS INFORMATION BY MATERIAL.
SO THE TABLE ON THE LEFT SHOWS THAT FOR, UM, CAST IRON IN THE FIRST ROW, THE NUMBER OF BREAKS SINCE 2010 IS 410.
THE NUMBER OF, AND, AND BY THE WAY, THIS IS JANUARY, 2010 TO APRIL, 2019 BEFORE THE BIG SPIKE.
ONLY 19 BREAKS ON DUCTILE IRON AND ONLY FOUR BREAKS ON THE PRECAST OR PRE-STRESSED CONCRETE CYLINDER PIPE.
ON THE RIGHT SIDE, YOU SEE THE ACTUAL BRAKE RATE.
SO IT'S NORMALIZED PER 100 MILES.
YOU'VE GOT, UM, OR, OR PER MILE RATHER.
SO YOU'VE GOT CAST IRON WITH, UH, 0.46 BRAKES PER MILE PER YEAR.
THAT IS 23 TIMES HIGHER THAN THE DUCTILE IRON BRAKE RATE OF ONLY 0.02.
AND IT'S SEVEN TIMES HIGHER THAN THE BRAKE RATE ON THE CONCRETE PIPE.
SO CAST IRON IS THE, IS THE FOCUS HERE.
AND REALLY WHERE WE, WE MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS ON REPLACEMENT, IT'S ALMOST ENTIRELY OLDER CAST IRON PIPE FOR THIS REASON HERE.
SO IF WE LOOK AT, UH, THE PERFORMANCE OF CAST IRON PIPE IN THIS GRAPHIC HERE, THIS IS JUST FOR CAST IRON PIPE.
WHAT YOU SEE HERE IS THE BREAK RATE VERSUS THE AGE OF THAT PIPE.
AND SO FOR OBVIOUS REASONS, AND YOU CAN SEE IT HERE, WE SAW IT IN THE DATA.
THIS VALIDATED WHAT WE EXPECTED TO SEE.
AS THAT PIPE AGES THE BRAKE RATE CONTINUES TO GO UP.
WE ALSO, UH, SAW WHAT WE EXPECTED IN TERMS OF THE PERFORMANCE BY DIAMETER.
SO ON THIS GRAPHIC YOU SEE, UM, ON THE X THE BOTTOM AXIS THERE IS THE DIAMETER OF THE PIPE FROM SIX INCH ALL THE WAY UP TO 20.
SO AS THE DIAMETER INCREASES, THE WALL THICKNESS INCREASES AND THE BREAK RATE GOES DOWN AS WE EXPECTED.
SO AGAIN, WE SAW GOOD VALIDATION IN THE CITY'S DATA.
UM, WE ALSO LOOKED AT SOIL CORROSIVITY.
UM, IT'S, THIS IS NOT GOOD NEWS UNFORTUNATELY FOR THE CITY.
UM, THIS IS BASED ON THE UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE'S SOIL DATABASE.
THEY HAVE MORE DATA THAN YOU COULD POSSIBLY IMAGINE ON SOIL PROPERTIES.
UM, AND SOME OF THAT DATA, UM, REFLECTS CORROSIVITY TOWARDS CONCRETE AND CORROSIVITY TOWARDS STEEL AND IRON AND OTHER METALS.
AND SO ON THE LEFT, WITH CONCRETE CORROSIVITY, EVEN THOUGH IT'S A SMALL PORTION OF THE SYSTEM, UM, THE GREEN IN THAT GRAPHIC IS LOW CORROSIVITY TO CONCRETE.
THE YELLOW WOULD BE MODERATE CORROSIVITY.
[00:25:01]
RIGHT SIDE WE SEE CORROSIVITY TO METAL.AND UNFORTUNATELY, OBVIOUSLY RED IS GONNA BE HIGH CORROSIVITY AND YELLOW IS MODERATE.
SO VERY UNFORTUNATELY, THIS IS, YOU KNOW, THE SOILS HERE ARE VERY CORROSIVE TO METAL.
AND THAT IS ANOTHER REASON WHY WE FEEL, UM, WHY THE BREAK RATE IS ELEVATED FOR THE CITY COMPARED TO MOST OTHER COMMUNITIES.
UH, DIFFICULT TO READ, I APOLOGIZE.
UM, WE DID LOOK AT PIPE BEDDING CHANGES.
SO IT PRE, I BELIEVE 1985 WHEN, UH, AN EXCAVATION WAS MADE TO INSTALL A PIPE OR REPAIR A PIPE.
IT WAS BACK BACKFILLED WITH NATIVE SOIL.
IT WAS BACKFILLED WITH THAT CORROSIVE SOIL.
AFTER 1985, THE ENGINEERING SPECIFICATIONS CHANGED.
AND SO RATHER THAN BACKFILL WITH THE CORROSIVE SOIL, THERE WERE GRAVEL AND OTHER BACKFILL MATERIALS TO REDUCE THE CORROSIVITY.
WE DID LOOK AT THIS AS A POSSIBILITY FOR, UH, PREDICTING FUTURE BREAKS.
UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO DETECT A PATTERN AS TO WHETHER, UM, THOSE PIPE BEDDING CHANGES ARE PREDICTIVE FOR THE FUTURE OR NOT.
A BIG PART OF IT IS THERE HAVE BEEN SO FEW BREAKS IN ON DUCTILE IRON PIPE SINCE THESE CHANGES WERE MADE.
THE CITY STOPPED INSTALLING CAST IRON AFTER ABOUT 1978.
SO WHEN THESE PIPE BEDDING CHANGES WERE MADE IN 1985, WE DON'T REALLY HAVE A BEFORE AND AN AFTER FOR CAST IRON PIPE, CUZ IT WAS ALL BEFORE THESE CHANGES TOOK PLACE.
SAME THING WITH, WITH THAT PRECES PRE-STRESSED CONCRETE CYLINDER PIPE.
IT'S ONLY THE DUCTILE IRON THAT'S BEEN INSTALLED BOTH PRE 1985 AND POST 1985.
AND BECAUSE OF THAT, WE LOOKED AT THAT MATERIAL'S PERFORMANCE BEFORE AND AFTER THESE CHANGES, AND IT WAS INCONCLUSIVE AS TO WHETHER THERE WAS A CHANGE OR NOT.
SO HOPEFULLY THAT CLARIFIES, UH, THAT GRAPHIC.
SO WHAT THIS, THROUGH THE USE OF THIS MODEL AND THE INFORMATION THAT WE FEED IT, WE'RE ABLE TO DEVELOP, UH, A CURVE LIKE THIS.
THIS IS CALLED AN AGING CURVE, AND IT BASICALLY HAS THE AGE ON THE LOWER AXIS, THE X AXIS AND THE BRAKE RATE ON THE Y AXIS, AS WE'VE SEEN, WE CAN DEVELOP THIS FOR THE SYSTEM AS A WHOLE.
WHAT THE MODEL DOES IS IT PRODUCES AN AGING CURVE FOR EVERY INDIVIDUAL PIPE IN THE SYSTEM BASED ON ITS CHARACTERISTICS.
SO WE CAN PREDICT EVERY PIPE'S FUTURE PERFORMANCE.
THE RESULTS OF WHICH ARE SHOWN ON THIS GRAPHIC, UM, IT'S MUCH LARGER IN THE REPORT I CAN ASSURE YOU.
UH, BUT WE'VE BROKEN DOWN THE, THE PREDICTED BREAK RATE OF THESE PIPES IN A, IN A COLOR CODED MAP HERE, WHERE THE RED PIPES WOULD INDICATE THE, THE PIPES THAT WOULD HAVE THE HIGHEST PREDICTED BREAK RATE IN THE FUTURE TO ORANGE TO YELLOW BEING MODERATE.
AND THEN THE GREEN SHADES BEING THE LOWEST PREDICTED BREAK RATE AS YOU WOULD EXPECT.
UM, THIS IS, I I THINK ONE OF THE MORE IMPORTANT GRAPHICS, UH, THAT WE'LL TALK ABOUT TODAY.
AND THERE'S MORE INFORMATION AGAIN IN THE STUDY, BUT THIS HAS TO DEAL WITH THE SPIKE IN 2019 AND BEYOND.
UH, REALLY IMPORTANT FOR US TO UNDERSTAND WHETHER THIS, THE IMPACTS OF, UH, SOME CHANGES IN THE SYSTEM THAT BEGAN IN 2019 ARE GOING TO LINGER OR NOT.
SO WHAT WE SEE, UM, IF WE START WITH THE TABLE ON THE TOP OF THIS GRAPHIC, WHAT WE HAVE, THERE IS A TABLE OF THE NUMBER OF BREAKS BY YEAR.
THERE ARE, THERE ARE THE BRAKES THAT OCCURRED THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE SYSTEM.
AND SO YOU CAN SEE, UH, OVERALL SYSTEM BRAKES IN 2010 WAS 44 AND 37.
AND AS YOU GO ALL THE WAY ACROSS IN 2019, IT JUMPS TO 75 AND THEN THOSE RED SHADED CELLS IN THE TOP ROW, 1 56, 1 18 84.
SO THE OVERALL NUMBER OF SYSTEM BREAKS VERY, VERY HIGH IN THOSE YEARS.
UM, WE LOOKED AT BREAKS NORTH OF I 70 SEPARATELY.
AND THE REASON I THINK MAYBE CLEAR TO MOST OF YOU, BUT IN 2019 THERE WERE A NUMBER THREE BOOSTER STATIONS THAT WERE COMMISSIONED AND WENT ONLINE.
THEY WERE FULLY FUNCTIONAL, I BELIEVE IN SEPTEMBER.
BUT STARTING ABOUT MAY 1ST, THE CITY STARTED TO GRADUALLY INCREASE THE PRESSURE IN THE NORTHERN PART OF THE SYSTEM NORTH OF I 70 TO TRY TO, UH, REDUCE THE, THE IMPACTS OF BREAKS.
I CAN TELL YOU THAT IN EVERY SYSTEM ACROSS THE UNITED STATES, IF YOU TOLD ME YOU WERE GOING TO INCREASE PRESSURES FROM 40 TO 60 PSI AS THEY WERE IN THE NORTHERN PART OF THE SYSTEM, I WOULD TELL YOU TO EXPECT A SPIKE IN
[00:30:01]
BREAKS.THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS, UNFORTUNATELY.
UM, AND YOU CAN SEE IN 2019, SO BREAKS NORTH OF I 70 WENT FROM AVERAGING ONE TO TWO PER YEAR, WENT TO 26, AND THAT ACCOUNTED FOR ALL OF THE INCREASE THAT THE CITY SAW IN THEIR SYSTEM IN 2019.
THERE WERE NO OTHER CAUSES THAT WAS THE CAUSE.
AND AS YOU CAN SEE IN 20 20, 21, 22, THE NUMBER OF BREAKS NORTH OF I 70 HAS DROPPED.
AND IT'S BACK DOWN TO ABOUT ITS NORMAL, UM, PRE 2019 LEVELS.
SO ONE OR TWO BREAKS PER YEAR.
SO THAT DOES NOT ACCOUNT FOR THE SPIKES THAT WE SAW IN 2020, IN 2021, AND STILL TO SOME DEGREE IN 22.
THAT HAS MORE TO DO WITH THE COMMISSIONING OF THE IMPROVEMENTS, IF YOU WILL, THE SOFTENING IMPROVEMENTS AT THE RIP WRAP ROAD WATER TREATMENT PLANT.
SO IN 2020, NEEDMORE ROAD WAS TAKEN COMPLETELY OFFLINE.
I KNOW THEY HAD STOPPED DEPENDING ON THAT PLANT FOR QUITE SOME TIME.
IT DIDN'T OPERATE FREQUENTLY, BUT, UH, IN 2020, THE NEW SYSTEM WENT ONLINE.
THERE WERE REVERSALS OF FLOW CHANGES IN WATER PRESSURE THROUGHOUT THE SYSTEM AND CHANGES IN WATER QUALITY THROUGHOUT THE SYSTEM.
AND WHEN ALL OF THOSE THINGS HAPPEN AT ONCE, AGAIN, WE EXPECT TO SEE AN IMPACT IN TERMS OF BREAKS.
THIS, YOU'RE NOT ALONE IN SEEING THESE KINDS OF IMPACTS.
UM, I THINK BECAUSE THE CITY ALREADY HAD A HIGH BREAK RATE, CORROSIVE SOILS, A LOT OF SMALL PIPE, THOSE ISSUES WERE EXACERBATED WHEN THE CHANGES, THE OPERATIONAL CHANGES IN 2020 TOOK PLACE.
THE REAL THE IMPORTANT CONCLUSION HERE IS THAT WE DECIDED IN OUR RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE WOULD NOT INCLUDE 2019 AND BEYOND DATA IN PREDICTIONS OF THE FUTURE PERFORMANCE OF THE SYSTEM.
WE FELT THAT IF WE DID THAT WE WOULD BE, UM, OVER RECOMMENDING THE INVESTMENT LEVEL THAT IS NECESSARY TO CONTROL THE BREAK RATE.
SO, UM, WE, I, THIS DOES BEAR CLOSE MONITORING.
I THINK ONE OF THE OTHER RECOMMENDATIONS, I KNOW ONE OF THE OTHER RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE HAVE IN THE STUDY IS TO KEEP AN EYE ON IT TO SEE IF THAT BREAK RATE CONTINUES TO COME DOWN.
IT AGAIN, IT'S GONE FROM 1 56 TO ONE 18 TO 84 LAST YEAR.
AND WE'RE HOPEFUL THAT THAT WILL RETURN TO PRE 2019 LEVELS.
UM, THAT NEEDS TO BE MONITORED USING JUST THAT DATA.
IT'S STILL, IT'S NOT A ROSY PICTURE.
WE EXPECT THE BREAK RATE TO ACCELERATE IF NOTHING IS DONE, IF NOTHING IS DONE, UNDERSTANDING THE CITY HAS BEEN DOING SOME PROACTIVE REPLACEMENT.
THIS GRAPHIC HERE IS A REPRESENTATION ABOUT WHAT THE BREAK RATE WOULD LOOK LIKE IF NO FURTHER REPLACEMENTS TOOK PLACE.
SO IT'S CLEAR IN ABOUT A DOZEN TO 15 YEARS, THE BREAK RATE WOULD DOUBLE IF NOTHING WAS DONE, AND IT'S ALREADY HIGH.
AND SO WE FEEL VERY COMFORTABLE IN RECOMMENDING THE REPLACEMENT PROGRAM THAT WE HAVE.
UM, I MENTIONED THIS, I'M GONNA GO THROUGH THIS FAIRLY QUICKLY.
UM, PROBABILITY OF FAILURE IS ONE PART OF THE EQUATION, BUT IF THERE WERE PIPE BREAKS AND THERE WERE NO CONSEQUENCES OF THOSE PIPE BREAKS, THEN YOU WOULDN'T BE WORRIED ABOUT THE RISK OF THE BRAKES.
SO WE DID LOOK AT CONSEQUENCES.
WELL, UM, IN TERMS OF PRIORITIZING WHERE THE SYSTEM SHOULD BE, UH, SHOULD SEE REPLACEMENTS FIRST.
SO, UM, AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, IF YOU'VE GOT PIPE THAT HAS A REALLY HIGH CONSEQUENCE ON THIS, ON THE BOTTOM AXIS HERE, AND A REALLY HIGH LIKELIHOOD OF FAILURE, THAT WOULD PUT YOU IN THE UPPER RIGHT QUADRANTS OF THIS GRAPHIC THAT WOULD REEM, UH, REPRESENT THE HIGHEST RISK AREAS IN THE LOWER LEFT.
IF YOU'VE GOT LOW LIKELIHOOD AND LOW CONSEQUENCE, OBVIOUSLY THAT'S A LOW RISK SITUATION.
SO WE USE THIS CONCEPT TO, UM, FOCUS ON ANY PIPES THAT WERE CLOSEST TO THAT UPPER RIGHT HAND QUADRANT INSTEAD.
THOSE ARE THE AREAS THAT WE WOULD PRIORITIZE.
SO LOOKING AT CONSEQUENCE, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT IMPACT THE CONSEQUENCE OF A, OF A WATER MAIN BREAK.
WE LOOK AT THE DIAMETER, THE DIAMETER, THE LARGER IT IS, UH, AS WE MENTIONED, THE LARGER, THE LIKELIHOOD IS THAT IT WILL CAUSE PROPERTY DAMAGE.
THE REPAIR ITSELF MIGHT BE MORE EXPENSIVE, UM, AND IT, AND IT PROBABLY SERVES THE MOST CUSTOMERS.
SO WHERE A PIPE INTERSECTS A ROADWAY, WHERE A PIPE INTERSECTS A, A STRUCTURE OR A WATER BODY, UM, THE, THE COST OF THE REPAIR WILL GO UP.
WE ALSO LOOKED AT THE IMPACTS ON CUSTOMERS, AND SO I'LL SHOW YOU HOW WE DID THAT HERE OVER THE NEXT FEW SLIDES.
[00:35:01]
WE, WE BROKE THE SYSTEM DOWN BY DIAMETER AND BASICALLY JUST THIS TABLE ON THE LEFT SHOWS YOU THAT ANY PIPE THAT WAS EIGHT INCHES IN DIAMETER OR LESS GOT THE LOWEST SCORE.UM, THE PIPES THAT WERE 16 INCHES AND GREATER GOT THE HIGHEST CONSEQUENCE SCORE.
WE USED A ONE TO FIVE SCORING SYSTEM FOR ALL OF THESE PARAMETERS, KIND OF A RELATIVE RATING SYSTEM.
WE LOOKED AT ADJACENCY FACTORS OF IF THE PIPE IS INTERSECTING A WATER BODY, UM, IT WOULD GET A SCORE OF FIVE.
IF A, IF IT IS, SORRY, IF A PIPE IS WITHIN 50 FEET OF A WATER BODY BUT NOT INTERSECTING IT, IT WOULD GET A SCORE OF FOUR AND SO FORTH.
AND SO THE CLOSER THE PIPE IS TO ANY OF THESE STRUCTURES, THE HIGHER THE SCORE WOULD BE.
UM, LASTLY, AND I'M SORRY, THIS IS VERY DIFFICULT TO READ ON THE SMALLER SCREENS AND MAYBE EVEN ON THE LARGER SCREEN.
IF WE HAVE A PIPE THAT INTERSECTS AN INTERSTATE HIGHWAY, IT GOT THE HIGHEST SCORE AND THERE WERE, THERE WERE A FEW.
NEXT WOULD BE PRINCIPLE ARTERIALS, MINOR ARTERIALS COLLECTORS, AND THEN LOCAL ROADS WOULD GET THE LOWEST SCORE.
IN ADDITION TO THOSE PROXIMITY FACTORS, AGAIN, WE LOOKED AT IMPACTS ON CUSTOMERS.
AND WHAT YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN HERE IS A REPRESENTATION OF THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM IS JUST A STICK FIGURE.
OBVIOUSLY NOT MEANT TO BE AN ACTUAL REPRESENTATION, BUT THE LINES IN THIS GRAPHIC REPRESENT PIPES IN THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM.
THE, UM, CIRCLES REPRESENT VALVES THAT CAN BE CLOSED TO ISOLATE PIPES TO DO A REPAIR.
AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, THE RED X REPRESENTS WHERE THERE MIGHT BE A BREAK.
IF THAT BREAK OCCURS, UH, WHERE THAT X IS, YOU WOULD ISOLATE THAT PIPE BY CLOSING ALL THE RED CIRCLES.
AND ANY CUSTOMER THAT IS SERVED BY ANY OF THOSE RED PIPES WOULD SEE AN OUTAGE OF ABOUT FOUR TO SIX HOURS WHILE THAT REPAIR TOOK PLACE.
WHAT WE'RE ABLE TO DO WITH THE CITY'S HYDRAULIC MODEL IS ACTUALLY MODEL THE IMPACTS OF A BRAKE ON EVERY SINGLE PIPE IN THE SYSTEM.
ITERATIVELY, WE MODEL A BRAKE ON ONE PIPE.
WE UNDERSTAND WHAT THE IMPACTS ARE ON CUSTOMERS IN TERMS OF NUMBER OF CUSTOMERS AND THE TYPE OF CUSTOMERS.
THEN WE, UH, MODEL IT ON A SECOND PIPE AND A THIRD PIPE AND MODEL CAN DO THIS.
UM, BASICALLY OVERNIGHT YOU HIT THE BUTTON.
WHEN YOU'RE GOING HOME AT NIGHT, YOU WAKE UP THE NEXT MORNING AND YOU HAVE RESULTS.
UM, THE TYPE, WE LOOKED AT DIFFERENT TYPES OF CUSTOMERS, UM, IN ADDITION TO THE NUMBER OF CUSTOMERS, EVERY CUSTOMER WAS INCLUDED IN THIS STUDY.
SO IF THERE WERE BREAKS THAT IMPACTED A LARGE NUMBER OF RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS, THEY WERE ACCOUNTED FOR.
UH, BUT WE ALSO LOOKED AT HOSPITALS, DIALYSIS CENTERS AS THE MOST CRITICAL.
WE LOOKED AT, UM, SCHOOLS, UM, NURSING HOMES, LARGE APARTMENT COMPLEXES AND SO FORTH.
AND THERE WERE A FEW LARGE USERS.
SO THERE ARE A NUMBER OF, UM, LARGE USERS IN TERMS OF, UM, MULTI-FAMILY HOUSING.
I BELIEVE THERE'S THE AQUATIC CENTER, UM, AND A FEW OTHER LARGE CUSTOMERS, CARWASH, THINGS OF THAT NATURE THAT IF THEY GO OUT OF SERVICE COULD HAVE AN ECONOMIC IMPACT ON THE COMMUNITY.
UM, THE SCORING SYSTEM THAT WE USED IS IN THE REPORT, BUT AGAIN, IT JUST KIND OF REITERATES WHAT I WAS SAYING BEFORE, THAT HOSPITALS, DIALYSIS CENTERS, IF, UH, IF THEY WERE TO GO OUT, THAT WOULD BE THE HIGHEST CRITICALITY.
UH, OF COURSE WORKING OUR WAY DOWN TO SCHOOLS AND, AND NURSING HOMES, ET CETERA.
OKAY, THAT INFORMATION AND HOW DO WE USE IT SPECIFICALLY FOR THIS REPORT, I'VE REALIZED THERE'S A LOT OF INFORMATION
HOPEFULLY THIS IS THE PART THAT MAKES THE MOST SENSE.
UM, WHAT, WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS JUST AN AGING CURVE.
AS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE, FOR ANY PIPE, ANY GIVEN PIPE, IT SHOWS THAT, UH, IT'S AGE ON THE BOTTOM, IT'S BREAK RATE, UH, AS IT AGES.
AND WHAT WE WOULD SAY IS FOR THE LOWEST CRITICALITY PIPE OR THE PIPE THAT HAS THE LOWEST CONSEQUENCE OF FAILURE, YOU MIGHT BE WILLING TO ACCEPT A FAIRLY HIGH BREAK RATE ON THAT PIPE BECAUSE THE CONSEQUENCES ARE FAIRLY LOW.
AND SO IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, WE SAY WE GO UP THE Y AXIS TO 100 BRAKES PER 100 MILES PER YEAR.
SO IN OTHER WORDS, YOU MIGHT BE WILLING TO ACCEPT A BRAKE PER MILE OF PIPE ON THAT LOW CONSEQUENCE PIPE.
AND WE FOLLOW IT ACROSS TO WHERE IT INTERSECTS THAT AGING CURVE FOR THAT PIPE.
AND WE COME DOWN AND WE SAY THAT PIPE SHOULD REPLACE, SHOULD BE REPLACED WHEN IT HITS ABOUT AGE 150 YEARS OLD.
WE DO THE SAME THING FOR DIFFERENT LEVELS OF CONSEQUENCE.
SO YOUR HIGHEST CONSEQUENCE OF FAILURE PIPE, YOU WOULD NOT ALLOW IT TO BREAK AS FREQUENTLY.
AND SO YOU MIGHT SAY WE'RE, WE WOULD ONLY ACCEPT ONE-TENTH OF THE BREAK RATE OF THE LOWEST CRITICALITY PIPE.
AND SO IN THIS CASE WE SAY, UH, 10 BRAKES PER 100 MILES IS ACCEPTABLE.
[00:40:01]
UH, WHERE IT HITS THE CURVE IS ABOUT AGE 75.AND SO YOU WOULD REPLACE THAT PIPE AT AGE 75.
SO SAME PIPE, BUT WHETHER IT'S A HIGH CRITICALITY PIPE OR NOT WILL DICTATE ITS REPLACEMENT AGE.
UM, THAT IS WHAT ALLOWS US TO DEVELOP THESE REPLACEMENT SCENARIOS.
WHAT IT TELLS US IS THAT THERE'S A HUGE BACKLOG OF PIPES THAT NEED TO BE REPLACED IN THE HUBER HEIGHTS SYSTEM.
WE UNDERSTOOD THE BREAK RATE WAS HIGH AS IT WAS, AND THIS IS VERY, VERY TYPICAL.
I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT WHEN WE DO THESE STUDIES, EVERY COMMUNITY THAT WE WORK WITH, IT SHOWS THAT THERE'S A BACKLOG OF REPLACEMENTS THAT NEEDS TO TAKE PLACE IN ORDER TO STABILIZE THE BREAK RATE.
BUT JUST AGAIN, UNDERSTANDING IT'S SORT OF BASED ON THEORETICAL, THE RISK APPROACH THAT WE HAVE, IT'S NOT REALISTIC FOR YOU.
IN, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, WHAT THIS IS SAYING IS THE INVESTMENT NEEDS TO BE ALMOST 20 MILLION TO REPLACE THAT BACKLOG RIGHT AWAY.
SO, UM, WHAT WE TRY TO DO IS LOOK AT DIFFERENT INVESTMENT STRATEGIES AND THAT'S, WE DID IT IN THE REPORT.
WE LOOK AT DIFFERENT INVESTMENT STRATEGIES AND SEE HOW THE SYSTEM IS PREDICTED TO RESPOND UNTIL WE COME UP WITH WHAT WE THINK IS A, A GOOD RECOMMENDA, A RECOMMENDED SOLUTION.
IF WE JUST NORMALIZED THE EXPENSE OVER THE NEXT 25 YEARS OVER THE PLANNING HORIZON.
THE MODEL SAYS THAT YOU WOULD SPEND ABOUT FOUR AND A QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS PER YEAR TO STABILIZE THE BREAK RATE.
SO THE LEFT GRAPHIC HERE JUST SHOWS YOU THE LENGTH OF PIPE THAT WOULD NEED TO BE REPLACED EACH YEAR BY THE, THAT'S THE BLUE BARS HERE.
THE, THE GOLD LINE ON THE TOP REPRESENTS THE FINANCIAL INVESTMENT IN THE SYSTEM.
SO ABOUT FOUR AND A QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS.
ON THE RIGHT IS THE PERFORMANCE, THE RESULTANT PERFORMANCE OF THE SYSTEM AS IT'S PREDICTED BASED ON THE MODELING.
AND THERE ARE TWO GRAPHICS THERE.
ONE, THE GOLD LINE SHOWS THE RISK EXPOSURE, DIPPING FIRST AND THEN SORT OF COMING BACK, BUT FAIRLY STABLE.
THE BLUE LINE THERE THAT PEAKS OUT A LITTLE BIT IS THE BREAK RATE.
AND THIS REPRESENTS A STRATEGY THAT GOES AFTER THE HIGH RISK PIPES FIRST, AS OPPOSED TO THE HIGH LIKELIHOOD OF FAILURE PIPES FIRST, WE WENT THROUGH A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT STRATEGIES.
THIS IS THE ONE THAT WE RECOMMENDED.
UM, IN THE REPORT, IT, UH, IT SHOWS A MULTI-TIERED INVESTMENT LEVEL TRYING TO BE SENSITIVE TO THE RATE PAYERS OF THE CITY.
UM, AND AT THE SAME TIME UNDERSTANDING THAT UNFORTUNATELY YOU NEED TO ADDRESS THIS.
UH, IT STARTED OFF, UM, WHEN WE PUBLISHED THE STUDY, WE UNDERSTOOD THERE WERE, UH, I BELIEVE $2 MILLION INITIALLY IN THE BUDGET FOR 2023.
I BELIEVE THAT'S BEEN RAISED TO FOUR, BUT THIS REFLECTS THAT TW UH, 2 MILLION IN 2023, A 4 MILLION INVESTMENT THROUGH THE REST OF THIS DECADE.
UM, JUMPING UP TO $5 MILLION IN THE 2030S AND THEN DROPPING BACK DOWN TO ABOUT FOUR AND A HALF MILLION DOLLARS AFTER THAT.
SO THIS IS WHAT WE RECOMMENDED.
AGAIN, THERE WILL BE SOME OPTIMIZATION OF THAT, UM, AS YOU STEP INTO THIS, MONITOR THE BREAK RATE, SEE WHAT THE IMPACT OF THOSE REPLACEMENTS ARE, UM, AND HOPEFULLY BE ABLE TO ADJUST THAT.
SO AGAIN, THIS IS JUST A TABULAR REPRESENTATION OF WHAT WE SAW ON THE PREVIOUS, UH, SLIDE SHOWING THE, THE BREAKDOWN OF WHAT WE RECOMMEND FOR INVESTMENT.
UM, WE HAVE IN THE RECENT MOST RECENTLY PUBLISHED VERSION OF THAT REPORT PROVIDED A NUMBER OF CANDIDATE PROJECTS.
SO, UM, I BELIEVE 17 OR 18 PROJECTS WERE RECOMMENDED FOR THE CITY'S CONSIDERATION.
UM, YOU'RE NOT MEANT TO BE ABLE TO SEE THIS, BUT MAPS THAT SHOW WHICH PIPES WOULD BE AFFECTED.
UM, WE TRIED TO BUNDLE THESE INTO ABOUT TWO TO $4 MILLION PROJECTS.
DOESN'T MEAN THE PROJECTS HAVE TO BE THAT BIG.
THEY CAN BE LARGER, THEY CAN BE SMALLER, HOWEVER THE CITY CHOOSES TO, TO PROCEED.
BUT WE'VE GOT A NUMBER OF CANDIDATES FOR CONSIDERATION ON THE RIGHT SIDE.
IT, IT LISTS THE INDIVIDUAL PIPES THAT WOULD BE REPLACED.
THERE'S INFORMATION ABOUT HOW MANY HISTORICAL BREAKS HAVE OCCURRED ON THOSE PIPES.
UM, AND THEN THERE'S AN OVERALL BENEFIT TO COST RATIO, UH, FOR EACH OF THOSE PROJECTS.
NOW, AGAIN, WE UNDERSTAND THERE'S MORE TO IT THAN THIS.
THERE MAY BE OTHER FACTORS THAT ARE REALLY IMPORTANT FOR THE CITY TO CONSIDER.
IF YOU'VE GOT RESURFACING ROADWAY PROJECTS THAT ARE PLANNED OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEARS, YOU CAN SHUFFLE THESE PROJECTS AROUND TO FIT THE SCHEDULE SO YOU'RE NOT DIGGING INTO THE SAME, UH, ROADWAY MULTIPLE TIMES, SAY, OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS.
UM, YOU MAY HAVE DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS, YOU MAY HAVE OTHER, UM, PRIORITIES THAT WILL DICTATE WHERE YOU DO THESE REPLACEMENTS.
[00:45:02]
CONTRACTOR AVAILABILITY IS GONNA BE AN ISSUE.CITY PROJECT MANAGER AVAILABILITY MIGHT BE AN ISSUE CUZ THIS, THIS IS A, THIS IS A BIG INCREASE RIGHT IN THE WORKLOAD FOR, UM, ENGINEER BERGMAN'S STAFF.
AND, UM, HE'LL HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, INFORM YOU ABOUT HIS RESOURCE AVAILABILITY, BUT HE CAN'T JUST TAKE ON A WHOLE LOT OF EXTRA WORK AND, AND, UH, NECESSARILY BE ABLE TO MANAGE THAT UNLESS YOU HAVE OTHER PLACES WHERE YOU CAN, UH, REDUCE WORKLOAD.
SO AG AND, AND LASTLY, AS I'VE MENTIONED, ONGOING BRAKE MONITORING IS GONNA BE VERY IMPORTANT AND THE CITY ALREADY DOES THAT, SO THAT'S, THAT'S GOOD TO KNOW AND YOU'LL SEE HOW THE SYSTEM REACTS TO THIS.
UM, LASTLY, THERE WERE A FEW OTHER RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WERE IN THE REPORT.
UH, A COUPLE OF THE HIGHLIGHTS HERE.
WE RECOMMENDED, UM, ONGOING A CONTINUATION OF A PROGRAM THAT STARTED IN 2018, UH, WHICH IS THAT ALL DUCTAL IRON PIPE NOW HAS A PROTECTIVE COATING AROUND IT.
IT'S A ZINC COATING, UM, IF YOU WILL.
IT, IT'S WHAT THEY CALL A SACRIFICIAL ANODE.
ALL THAT MEANS IS, UM, RATHER THAN THE PIPE DEGRADING THAT ZINC COATING WILL DEGRADE A WILL PROTECT THAT PIPE AND YOU'LL GET A, A MUCH LONGER USEFUL LIFE OUT OF IT.
SO WE DO, WE DO THINK THAT WAS A, A GOOD DECISION ON THE CITY'S BEHALF AND WE RECOMMEND CONTINUATION OF THAT.
TALKED ABOUT MONITORING THE BREAK RATE, AND ONE THING THAT, AND ONE ADDITIONAL RECOMMENDATION THAT WE HAVE KIND OF LATER ON IN THE FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM, UM, IS WE RECOMMEND THAT THE PERFORMANCE OF THE DUCTILE IRON PIPE IS VERIFIED.
SO DUCTILE IRON PIPE IS YOUNGER AND SO THE BREAK RATE IS SMALLER, BUT THE CAST IRON PIPE THAT'S BREAKING FREQUENTLY NOW, WHEN IT WAS THE SAME AGE AS DUCTILE IRON, YOU WOULD'VE SAID THE SAME THING.
YOU WOULD'VE SAID IT'S, IT'S YOUNG AND IT'S NOT BREAKING.
I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT FOR THE CITY TO JUST VERIFY THAT THE DUCTAL IRON PIPE IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO PERFORM WELL.
THERE ARE SOME INCREDIBLE TECHNOLOGIES THAT ARE OUT THERE THAT WILL ALLOW YOU TO ASSESS THE AVERAGE WALL THICKNESS OF THE PIPE WITHOUT EXCAVATING IT.
YOU CAN PASS THESE SIGNALS FROM HYDRANT TO HYDRANT, NOT DO ANY DESTRUCTIVE TESTING, AND YOU CAN COMPARE THE THICKNESS OF THAT DUCTILE IRON TODAY VERSUS WHEN IT WAS MANUFACTURED, JUST TO CONFIRM TO YOU THAT IT'S, IT'S GOING TO CONTINUE TO PERFORM WELL IN THE FUTURE.
SO I DON'T THINK THAT'S NECESSARY RIGHT NOW.
THE DUCTAL IS NOT BREAKING, BUT I THINK YOU WANT TO GET AHEAD OF IT.
I WOULD SAY WITHIN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS THAT WOULD BE AN IMPORTANT THING TO DO.
AND THAT'S, UH, THAT'S ALL I HAVE.
I KNOW THAT WAS A FIRE HOSE OF INFORMATION AND I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT WAS A VERY COMPLEX ISSUE, UH, THAT WE STUDIED.
I AGAIN, APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SHARE THE INFORMATION WITH YOU TODAY.
UM, AND I, I LOOK FORWARD TO COMING BACK ON THE 15TH, BUT IF THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS RIGHT NOW, I'D BE HAPPY TO TAKE THEM.
I'D JUST LIKE TO, YOU KNOW, SAY THANK YOU KEVIN FOR, FOR COMING.
YOU KNOW, I MEAN THE, THE REPORT OBVIOUSLY WAS VERY BIG AND ALL THE INFORMATION WE TALKED ABOUT, I MEAN, THIS PRESENTATION WAS GREAT.
I THINK EVEN AS YOU TALKED THROUGH IT, UM, MADE THE SLIDES VERY, VERY EASY TO UNDERSTAND AND I THINK WE ALL PROBABLY APPRECIATE THAT.
BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, I THINK MOST OF THE QUESTIONS THAT I HAD WERE, WERE REALLY KIND OF ANSWERED IN THE, IN THE PRESENTATION, BUT I WOULD CERTAINLY, UH, DEF REFER TO COUNSEL IF ANYONE HAS ANY PRESENTATION, ANY QUESTIONS NOW, OR IF EVERYBODY'S JUST KIND OF HOLDING QUESTIONS OR GOING TO INTERACT ONCE WE HAVE OUR, OUR MARCH 15TH MEETING.
BUT SORT OF COUNSEL HAS ANY QUESTIONS, UH, FEEL FREE.
NATHAN, I HAVE A COMMENT MORE THAN A QUESTION.
UM, NUMBER ONE, I APPRECIATE, UH, THE INFORMATION I REALLY DO.
IT'S BEEN VERY, UM, ENLIGHTENING.
UM, ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT, UH, SLIDES YOU PUT UP THERE, MOST ENLIGHTENING TO ME WAS THE, UH, ONE ON CONSEQUENCE OF FAILURE MM-HMM.
UM, AND I JUST, TO ME THAT MY TAKEAWAY FROM THAT IS THAT, UM, WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL IN CONCENTRATING ON JUST RANDOMLY PICKING AN AREA AND REPAIRING IT WITHOUT TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION THE MORE HIGH RISK AREAS THAT HAVE LARGER CONSEQUENCES.
UM, I, I GUESS, AND RUSS, THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR WORK.
I MEAN, THIS REALLY SOLIDIFIES THE, WHAT I KNEW ALL ALONG THAT WHEN HE PICKS STREETS OUT THAT NEED TO BE WORKED ON, HE'S NOT JUST PULLING THEM OUT OF A HAT.
UM, AND ONE THING, IF YOU COULD, IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND BACKTRACKING A LITTLE BIT MM-HMM.
IRON AND THEN THE CORROSIVITY OF THE SOIL HERE MM-HMM.
[00:50:01]
HOW DID THAT OFFSET SOME OF THE EFFECTS OF CORROSIVITY? YEAH, EXCELLENT QUESTION.SO AGAIN, ABOUT 1985 IS WHEN THOSE CHANGES TOOK PLACE.
UM, WHAT WE NOTICED IS THERE HAVE ONLY BEEN THREE BREAKS ON DUCTAL IRON PIPE SINCE 1985.
AND THAT'S AGAIN WITH THE PRE 2019 DATA.
SO THERE'S NOT A LOT OF ROOM FOR US TO, TO PREDICT WHAT THE FUTURE WILL LOOK LIKE BECAUSE IF THERE HAD BEEN FOUR BREAKS VERSUS TWO BREAKS, THERE'S A HUGE IMPACT ON WHAT THE AGING CURVE WOULD LOOK LIKE.
IN OTHER WORDS, THERE'S NOT A A ENOUGH STATISTICAL SIGNIFICANCE FOR US TO MAKE ANY REALLY DEFINITIVE CONCLUSIONS.
WHAT YOU'LL SEE IN THAT GRAPHIC, HOWEVER, IS, IS SOMEWHAT REMARKABLE.
WHAT IT SHOWS IS THE PERFORMANCE.
THAT AGING CURVE FOR ALL DUCTILE IRON PIPE PRE 1985 IS ALMOST IDENTICAL TO THE AGING CURVE FOR THE DUCTILE IRON.
SO AT THE SAME AGE, THEY WOULD HAVE THE SAME BREAK RATE AND THE SHAPE OF THAT CURVE, IF YOU THINK ABOUT YOUR MONEY, UM, IN THE BANK AND THE INTEREST RATE YOU GET, YOU KNOW, IT REFLECTS HOW MUCH IT'S GONNA GO UP EVERY YEAR THAT WE LOOKED AT THE INTEREST RATE, IF YOU WILL, OR THE RATE THAT THE BREAK RATE WILL INCREASE ON DUCTAL IRON PRE 1985, POST 1985 PIPE, AGAIN, THEY WERE ALMOST IDENTICAL.
SO WE'RE NOT SEEING A DIFFERENCE RIGHT NOW IN THE BEDDING CHANGES.
BUT I DON'T THINK THE CONCLUSION IS TO SAY THERE WAS NO IMPACT.
I THINK BECAUSE THERE HAVE ONLY BEEN THREE BREAKS, I THINK WE'RE OPTIMISTIC THAT IT WILL PERFORM BETTER.
WE JUST CAN'T PROVE IT WITH THE DATA AND WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH STATISTICS TO REALLY, TO SHOW THAT.
DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
SO KEVIN, ONE OF THE THINGS WE'VE HEARD TOO IS THAT THERE WERE A LOT OF EPA CHANGES THAT HAPPENED KIND OF IN THE EIGHTIES VERSUS HOW SOME OF THIS, SO IT ALL COMES BACK TO THE BEDDING ISSUE, I GUESS, RIGHT? OF YES.
WHAT THE, WHAT THE SITUATION WAS WHEN THE PIPE WAS PUT IN THE GROUND BACK IN THE SEVENTIES MM-HMM.
SO ARE WE SEEING A DIFFERENCE IN THE, ARE WE SEEING THAT BECAUSE, OR THE, THE LOW BREAK RATE OF THE DUCTILE IRON BECAUSE OF EPA REGULATION, THE BEDDING AND IT WAS A CHANGE FROM CAST IRON TO DUCTILE IRON.
ARE THOSE, ARE THOSE TWO THINGS WORKING TOGETHER THERE OR, OR, OR IS THAT KIND OF COINCIDENTAL? I THANK YOU MAYOR GORE.
I THINK THE ANSWER IS, I THINK SO, BUT AGAIN, WE CAN'T, WE CAN'T UNFORTUNATELY SAY DEFINITIVELY WITH THE DATA.
AND THIS IS NOT JUST TRUE OF IN HUBER HEIGHTS, THIS IS TRUE ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
WHEN WE LOOK AT BREAK RATES OF PIPES ACROSS THE COUNTRY, THE DUCTAL IRON IS PERFORMING BETTER ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
BUT BECAUSE IT IS SO YOUNG, WE DON'T FEEL LIKE WE HAVE ENOUGH DATA TO DEFINITIVELY SAY IT'S GOING TO OUTPERFORM, UH, CAST IRON.
NOW THERE'S REASON TO BELIEVE IT WILL, UH, AGAIN, JUST BY ITS VERY NATURE, BECAUSE IT IS DUCTILE, CHANGES IN PRESSURE ARE ABSORBED A LITTLE BIT BETTER BY DUCTILE IRON PIPE CUZ IT, BECAUSE IT CAN FLEX COMPARED TO CAST IRON PIPE A LITTLE BIT MORE.
THERE'S A LITTLE MORE GIVE, UM, THAT IS ALSO TRUE WHEN IT IS INSTALLED TOO.
UM, WHEN PIPE IS INSTALLED, IF THE, IF IT'S NOT INSTALLED PROPERLY, YOU CAN HAVE PRESSURES ON THAT PIPE THAT WILL IMPACT ITS LONGEVITY.
UM, SO I BELIEVE THE ANSWER IS YES.
I BELIEVE MANUFACTURING IS OF THOSE PIPES AS WELL HAS, UH, IMPROVED, UH, THE COATING THAT IS ON THOSE PIPES TODAY IS BETTER.
UM, AND SO I DO THINK THERE'S REASON TO BE OPTIMISTIC, BUT AGAIN, AS ANY GOOD DATA-DRIVEN ENGINEER WOULD RECOMMEND, I DO THINK YOU NEED TO VERIFY THAT.
JUST TO BE CLEAR FOR, FOR PLANNING PURPOSES AND, AND THAT CAN WAIT FOR NOW, BUT, UM, NOT TOO LONG.
SO NANCY HAS BROUGHT UP, YOU MEAN PART OF YOUR PRESENTATION ON THE CORROSIVENESS OF THE SOILS MM-HMM.
SO I MEAN, YOU KNOW, CLEARLY LOOKING AT THOSE DIAGRAMS AND ALL THE RED
DO WE KNOW WHAT THAT IS OR WE LIKE WHAT THE, WHAT THE PROBLEM IS OR WE, YOU KNOW, DID THEY JUST START BUILDING THE CITY BACK IN THE, IN THE FIFTIES ON A SORT OF BAD SPOT? I MEAN, WHAT, WHAT IS IT WITH THE SOIL SO WE KNOW WHAT'S MAKING CORROSIVE OR WHAT YEAH, IT, IT'S CHEMICAL PROPERTIES, UH, AS, UH, IS PREDOMINANT THROUGHOUT OHIO AND A NUMBER OF OTHER MIDWEST STATES, CLAY SOIL, IT'S VERY MINERAL RICH.
UM, AND A LOT OF THOSE MINERALS, UH, ARE DISSOLVED IN THE GROUNDWATER TABLE.
UM, EVEN IF THEY'RE JUST IN THE SOIL, THEY CONDUCT ELECTRICITY AND SO THEY, THEY PERFORM, UH, OR, OR, UH, NOT PERFORM WELL, I GUESS YOU COULD SAY PERFORM
JUST THE WAY PIPE WILL DETERIORATE IF IT'S EXPOSED TO MOISTURE AND AIR, YOU'LL SEE RUST DEVELOP ON IT.
IT'S NOT RUSTING IT, BUT IT'S A SIMILAR, UH, CHEMICAL REACTION THAT WILL DEGRADE THE PIPE FROM THE OUTSIDE IN.
AND THERE'S, THERE'S VERY LITTLE THAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT.
WE DO THINK, AND AGAIN, WE'RE HOPEFUL THAT THE BEDDING CHANGES WILL REDUCE
[00:55:01]
THAT IMPACT, UM, AND THE ZINC COATING WILL REDUCE THAT IMPACT AS WELL.SO DO YOU THINK, I, SO WHEN LOOKING AT HUB HEIGHTS IN RELATIONSHIP TO, YOU KNOW, THAT 21.4 BREAK RATE PRE 19, PRE 2019 IN RELATIONSHIP TO OTHER CITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY ON THEIR BREAK RATES MM-HMM.
AND MAYOR GORE, I THINK CONTEXT IS REALLY IMPORTANT AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE RESIDENTS AND FOR COUNCIL TO KNOW IT IS HIGH, BUT IT'S NOT, I WOULD NOT SAY IT'S ALARMING.
THE PRE 2019 BREAK RATE IS NOT ALARMING.
I, I UNDERSTAND POST 2019, YOU KNOW, IT IS OF MAJOR CONCERN, BUT UNDERSTANDING THAT IT'S A SMALLER PIPE SYSTEM.
IT'S A PREDOMINANTLY BEDROOM COMMUNITY.
UM, WHERE OTHER LARGER COMMUNITIES HAVE BIGGER PIPE WITH LARGER WALL THICKNESSES, YOU WOULD EXPECT THEIR BREAK RATE TO BE LOWER JUST BASED ON THE COMPOSITION OF THE PIPE, THE COMPOSITION OF THE SOILS AND SO FORTH.
SO THIS IS BY NO STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION AN INDICTMENT ON ANYTHING THAT'S BEEN DONE BY ANY OF RUSS'S PREDECESSORS AND THOSE, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT HAVE INSTALLED THAT PIPE.
IT, IT IS JUST THE, THE NATURE OF THE SOILS, UH, THE SIZE OF THE PIPES, ET CETERA.
SO, UM, YEAH, IT IS TO BE EXPECTED AND I, I THINK THE CITY'S TAKING APPROPRIATE MEASURES TO ADDRESS IT, APPRECIATE IT.
UH, AND I THINK JUST FOR ME IT'S ABOUT JUST TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, UNDERSTAND HOW, HOW WE, HOW WE GOT HERE MM-HMM.
SO JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND ALL THE DATA THAT YOU HAVE, CUZ A LOT OF THE SLIDES HAVE JUST REALLY GREAT INFORMATION AND, UH, AND I THINK JUST TRYING TO, UNDER, JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IT CERTAINLY HELPS ME.
NANCY, DO YOU THINK THAT WITH EVERYBODY STAYING HOME DURING THE PANDEMIC, THAT IT MIGHT HAVE ADDED EXTRA PRESSURE TO THE SYSTEM THAT MIGHT HAVE ACCELERATED THE BRAKES? I, I DO BELIEVE IT'S POSSIBLE.
UM, I DON'T THINK IT HAD A HUGE IMPACT, BUT IT IS POSSIBLE THAT IT CONTRIBUTED TO IT.
SO AGAIN, WE TALKED ABOUT HOW WHEN THE NEW WATER PLANT CAME ONLINE WITH, WITH ITS IMPROVEMENTS IN WATER QUALITY CHANGE AND FLOW RATES AND PRESSURES HAVE CHANGED THROUGHOUT THE SYSTEM, THAT YOU DO SEE A SPIKE IN BREAK RATES.
SO THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT USAGE PATTERNS CHANGED DURING THE PANDEMIC AND PEOPLE WERE STAYING AT HOME AND NOW THEY'RE CONSUMING WATER AT HOME VERSUS AT THEIR PLACE OF, OF BUSINESS.
AND SO, YES, I DO THINK THAT COULD BE A CONTRIBUTING FACTOR TO SOME DEGREE.
AND OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, THOSE IMPACTS HAVEN'T COMPLETELY GONE AWAY.
I, YOU KNOW, I KNOW AT MY COMPANY I STILL AM ALLOWED TO WORK A COUPLE OF DAYS A WEEK AT HOME, LIKE I'M SURE MANY BUSINESSES, UH, ARE AS WELL.
AND SO THAT COULD BE AN UNDERLYING, UM, CONTRIBUTOR TO SOME OF THE BASELINE BREAKS THAT ARE OCCURRING.
UM, THANKFULLY WE'VE SEEN THE, THE DROP OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS.
WE HOPE THAT CONTINUES TO, TO BE SEEN.
UH, YOU HAD MENTIONED A 25 YEAR PLAN YES.
AT ABOUT 4.25 MILLION PER YEAR.
WHAT WOULD THE PLAN BE AFTER 25 YEARS? UM, SO THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
UM, I WOULD, THE HOPE IS THAT IT WILL DROP.
AND THE REASON IS THAT AT THAT POINT, MOST OF THE CAST IRON SYSTEM WILL HAVE BEEN REPLACED, THAT THE PREDOMINANCE OF THE SYSTEM AT THAT POINT WILL BE DUCTILE IRON.
AND PRESUMING, AGAIN, OUR ASSUMPTIONS THAT THEY WILL AGE, UM, AT A SLOWER RATE, THEY WILL DETERIORATE AT A SLOWER RATE THAN CAST IRON.
WE WOULD EXPECT THAT TO DROP IN IGNORING IF WE COULD PUT 20 MILLION OF PIPE IN THE GROUND OVERNIGHT.
UM, YEAH, I CAN, UH, TRY TO EXPRESS THAT HERE.
UM, SO THIS, THIS IS THE GRAPHIC THAT SHOWS, UH, IF YOU HAD, IF YOU MAKE THAT LARGE INITIAL INVESTMENT, UM, AND AGAIN, THIS IS JUST BASED ON THAT THEORETICAL MODEL, THERE STILL IS A LARGE, UM, ANNUAL INVESTMENT THAT IS RECOMMENDED THROUGH THE THIRTIES, BUT THEN IT DROPS AND YOU CAN SEE ON THIS GRAPHIC TO ALMOST A MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR OR LESS IN THE OUT YEARS.
UM, AND SO I THINK WHAT WE TRIED TO DO WITH THE SCENARIOS IS JUST BALANCE THAT, UM, AND REALLY MINIMIZE THE SHOCK, YOU KNOW, AND RATES TO
[01:00:01]
THE RATE PAYERS AND, UH, THE CITY'S ABILITY TO, TO, UH, ABSORB THAT.THE REASON WHY I BRING THAT UP, RUSS, WHEN WE LOOKED AT AN INTERIOR STREETS MAINTENANCE PROGRAM WHERE WE WENT IN, CONTRACTED OUT AND REPLACED STREETS, WE SAW A SIGNIFICANT DECREASE.
WE SAW A SIGNIFICANT DECREASE IN LABOR COST IN THE STREETS DIVISION AND DOING POTHOLES, CRACK FILLING RIGHT.
WOULD THERE BE ANY VALUE IN LOOKING AT A STUDY AND A PLAN THAT WOULD INCORPORATE AT LEAST A REVISION OF THAT? UH, WE'RE CAPABLE OF LOOKING AT ANY INVESTMENT SCENARIO, UH, THAT YOU'D LIKE US TO? IT'S, UH, AT THIS POINT WE'VE DEVELOPED THE, THE MODEL, UM, THAT SHOWS THE IMPACT OF THE INVESTMENT LEVELS ON BREAKS.
UH, SO IF YOU, CERTAINLY, IF YOU'D LIKE US TO LOOK AT ALTERNATIVE INVESTMENT LEVELS, WE ARE ABLE, EXCUSE ME, ABLE AND WILLING TO DO THAT FAIRLY QUICKLY.
AND, AND RUSS, WE COULD WORK WITH HIS GROUP IF THERE WERE SOME OPTIONAL MODELS WE COULD WORK WITH HIS GROUP ON HOW TO EMPLOY AND GET THAT DONE, RIGHT.
I, I FAILED TO MENTION IN THE INTRODUCTION, I USED TO WORK FOR THE CITY OF COLUMBUS, DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC UTILITIES AND DID THIS TYPE OF WORK WHILE I WAS THERE, AND IT, IT, THERE WAS A HIGH BREAK RATE THERE AS WELL.
JUST, UM, THE BREAK RATE IN COLUMBUS WAS HIGHER
UM, ONE OF THE, THE VALUES OF THIS STUDY THAT GOES BEYOND JUST UNDERSTANDING WHERE TO REPLACE PIPE IS UNDERSTANDING WHERE NOT TO REPLACE IT.
SO AS YOU DO HAVE PAVING PROJECTS THAT COME UP, UM, ARE WATER ENGINEERS, WHEN I WAS IN THE CITY OF COLUMBUS, THEY WOULD BE APPROACHED BY THE STREETS FOLKS, AND THE STREETS FOLKS WOULD SAY, WE'RE REPAVING.
YOU HAVE TO REPLACE THAT PIPE.
AND SO THERE WAS A COST THAT THE WATER UTILITY WASN'T EXPECTING.
THEY NOW HAVE THE ABILITY, AND YOU WILL HAVE THE ABILITY THROUGH THIS STUDY TO MAKE SOME INFORMED DECISIONS ABOUT WHERE YOU SAY, NO, WE'RE NOT REPLACING THE PIPE UNDER THIS ROADWAY, BUT WE CAN SEE FROM THE STUDY WHERE THERE ARE HIGH RISK PIPES AND WE SHOULD REPLACE THEM AS PART OF A PAVEMENT PROJECT OR OTHER PROJECT OF THAT NATURE.
AND, AND TO RUSS'S CREDIT, THAT WAS AN EXPERIMENT THAT YOUR DIVISION DID WITH KITTRIDGE, HARSHMAN, PEPPER, THOSE TYPE OF STREETS.
AND I THINK WE SAW SIGNIFICANT BENEFIT FROM THAT, DID WE NOT? OH, YEAH.
AND FROM THAT POINT, MOVING FORWARD, YOU INCORPORATED VERY OFTEN A STREETS REPLACEMENT PACKAGE WITH WATER LINE WATER BEING REPLACEMENT.
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING THIS YEAR WITH THE PROGRAM.
SO THE CATCH UP NUMBER IS 20 MILLION.
BRIAN, REAL QUICK, SO WHEN WE DO, SO KIND OF ALONG THE LINES OF WHAT NOT TO REPLACE, WHEN WE THINK ABOUT OUR STREETS PROGRAM, I MEAN, LOOK, I KNOW WE HAVE STREETS THAT NEED TO BE RE REPAVED AND REPAIRED, BUT AS, AS PART OF ALL OF THIS, A LOT OF OUR STREETS THAT NEED TO BE REPAIRED ARE IN THE OLDER SECTION OF THE CITY ANYWAY.
CAN WE TAKE MONEY THAT'S PART OF THE STREET REPAIR MONEY AND ADD THAT TO PIPE REPLACEMENT IN THOSE AREAS WHERE WE KNOW BASED ON THE STUDY WHERE, WHERE THOSE BREAKS ARE REALLY GONNA HAPPEN AND, AND KIND OF COMBINE THAT MONEY? SO IN TERMS OF NOT KNOWING WHAT DOESN'T NEED TO BE REPLACED, BUT COMBINE AND PULL THAT MONEY WHERE WE KNOW IT DOES NEED TO BE REPLACED BASED ON THE STUDY.
SO WE WOULD LOOK TO, UM, AND THAT'S ONE OF THE SCENARIOS THAT WE'RE PIECING TOGETHER AS PART OF OUR PRESENTATION FOR THE 15TH, IS WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE TO MARRY, UM, WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE TO MARRY OUR PAVING PROGRAM WITH THE, UM, WATER MAIN REPLACEMENT PROGRAM SO THAT THESE EXPENSES, UH, RELATIVE TO HAVING TO DIG UP THE ROAD TO REPLACE THE PIPE, TO REPAVE THE ROAD, SOME OF THAT CAN BE OFFSET WITH THE REVENUES THAT WE, UH, THAT WE ALLOCATE TO THAT PROGRAM.
SO WE ARE LOOKING AT WHERE WE CAN BRING THOSE TOGETHER, UH, TO HELP KEEP THE COSTS DOWN, UM, AS IT, YOU KNOW, AS, AS WE LOOK TO RAISE THE APPROPRIATE REVENUE TO, TO MANAGE THIS SITUATION.
[01:05:01]
YEAH, NANCY.UM, AND TO ADD TO THAT AND, AND MARK'S SUGGESTION, UM, IT'S, IT'S, AS WE ALL KNOW, IT'S ALSO ABOUT OTHER FACTORS BESIDES BUDGET, BECAUSE IT WILL TAKE, IF WE ACCELERATE THIS, UH, IT'S GOING TO, WE NEED TO EVALUATE IF WE NEED EXTRA MANPOWER, WHAT OUR STORAGE CAPABILITIES ARE FOR, FOR THE PIPE SUPPLY CHAIN ISSUES.
ALL THOSE THINGS HAVE TO BE FACTORED IN.
AS WE'RE LOOKING AT SOME OF THE DUCTILE PIPING MM-HMM.
UM, WOULD YOU RECOMMEND IF SOMETHING LIKE THIS WITH THE DUCTILE, IF WE START SEEING THE NUMBERS GOING UP TO DO LINING IN THOSE OR JUST SKIP THE WHOLE LINING PROCESS? I BELIEVE ALL NEW DUCTILE IRON PIPE THAT GOES IN THE GROUND WILL BE ZINC COATED.
UM, AND SO WE'LL HAVE THAT EXTERIOR LINER.
AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT MANUFACTURERS OF DUCTILE IRON PIPE, SEVERAL OF THEM, UM, THERE'S A COMPANY CALLED US PIPE THAT'S A MANUFACTURER HAVE TOLD US THEY WILL PROBABLY STOP MANUFACTURING DUCTILE IRON PIPE WITHOUT THE LINER THAT ALMOST ALL OF THEIR CUSTOMERS EXPECT IT BECAUSE IT WILL JUST UNIVERSALLY REDUCE THE DETERIORATION RATE OF EVERYBODY'S DUCTILE IRON SYSTEM.
AND FOR THEM TO CHANGE OVER BETWEEN A MANUFACTURING LINE OF NON ZINC COATED AND ZINC COATED COSTS THEM MORE MONEY THAN IT'S WORTH.
SO, UM, WE ARE SEEING, UM, WHAT WE, WE BELIEVE WE'RE SEEING IS BETTER.
WE KNOW WE'RE SEEING BETTER PERFORMANCE OF DUCTAL IRON PIPE.
WE THINK IT'S ASSOCIATED WITH, WITH THE COATINGS AS A CONTRIBUTING FACTOR.
AND SO I, I WOULD RECOMMEND IT, AND I THINK IT MAY BE YOUR ONLY OPTION GOING FORWARD REGARDLESS, AND I, BUT I DO THINK IT IS WORTH THE INCREMENTAL INCREASE IN THE INVESTMENT.
IT, IT WILL IMPACT THE COST OF THE PIPE BY ABOUT 2%, THAT IT WILL IMPACT THE COST OF A PROJECT BY ABOUT 1% OR LESS.
BUT IF IT, IT, IF IT INCREASES THE LONGEVITY OF PIPE 10 OR 20 OF OR 30%, IT'S A TREMENDOUS INVESTMENT FOR THE CITY.
AND SO I DO RECOMMEND IT GOING FORWARD.
AND BUT ANITA, I THINK YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE INTERNAL YEAH, I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE INTERNAL MINING.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WAS ON A SEWER PIPE OR A WATER PIPE.
WE DID A, YOU DID AN A WATER PIPE WATER LINING PROJECT ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO.
AND, UH, WE HAD A FEW BREAKS AFTERWARDS AND IT OKAY.
APPARENTLY THE INTERIOR, THEY SPRAY LINE IT AND IT CAN'T HANDLE THE SHEAR.
UM,
SOMETIMES THE LINER DOESN'T ADHERE TO THE PIPE.
SOMETIMES IF THE PIPE HAS SAGS OR IT'S NOT COMPLETELY STRAIGHT, IT IMPACTS THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THE PIPE.
THERE ARE A LOT OF ISSUES WITH IT.
WE DON'T HAVE, I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF EXPERIENCE WITH CLIENTS THAT HAVE DONE THAT.
I THINK IT'S, UM, UNUSUAL AND I THINK THE BEST THING TO DO IS TO CONTINUE TO LOOK AROUND AT OTHER COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE DONE THAT AND LEARNED FROM THEIR EXAMPLE.
BUT IT'S NOT, IT CERTAINLY WAS NOT A RECOMMENDATION AS PART OF THIS STUDY.
I JUST WANTED TO KNOW AS COUNCIL, BECAUSE THAT WAS ECONOMIC REASONS IS WHY THAT MM-HMM.
SO WE SHOULD JUST NOT EVEN THINK OF THAT IN THE FUTURE PROCESS, IS WHAT I'M THINKING.
I WOULDN'T CATEGOR CATEGORICALLY ELIMINATED FROM CONSIDERATION, BUT AGAIN, I DON'T THINK IT'S TYPICAL.
AND I THINK WE WOULD, UH, AS AN ENGINEER ON THIS STUDY, I, I WOULD WANT TO SEE MORE POSITIVE PERFORMANCE OF IT BEFORE I RECOMMENDED IT.
THEN I HAD A FEW OTHER QUESTIONS.
SOME TOWARD, UM, RUSS, CAN I GET A LIST OF WHERE THE PIPES HAVE BEEN REPLACED? CUZ HE WAS SAYING WE DID LIKE A MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.
CAN I GET A LIST OF WHERE WE, WE HAVE A MAP THAT'LL SHOW IT ALL.
AND, UM, ALSO, WHAT WAS OUR TOTAL NUMBER BREAKS IN 2022? CAUSE I SAW IT ENDED JULY OF, IT WAS 85 IN JULY.
SO HOW MANY TOTAL BY THE END OF 22? 84.
IT HAD BEEN, UH, WE HAD PUBLISHED THE NUMBER OF 44 IN JULY OF 2022.
IT WAS 44 AND THE, THE OVERALL NUMBER WAS 84.
UM, AND COUNCIL MEMBER KITCHEN, I WOULD ALSO, IF YOU DO HAVE A COPY OF THE REPORT, THERE ISN'T APPENDIX THAT SHOWS THE WATER PIPES THAT HAVE BEEN REPLACED TO ANSWER YOUR PREVIOUS QUESTION.
I THINK A MAP MIGHT BE MORE HELPFUL.
[01:10:01]
TO, UH, REFERENCE, UH, THOSE PIPES, YOU CAN SEE AT LEAST, UH, THE NUMBER OF PIPES IN LENGTH THAT'S BEEN REPLACED.AND THIS IS KIND OF TO THE NEXT THING WITH THE INFRASTRUCTURE UPDATE.
SO ARE WE LOOKING TO START HUBBERT AND THOSE GUYS MARCH 1ST STILL, OR, UH, YES, I THINK SO.
AND TELL ME AGAIN WHAT KIND OF PIPE WE ARE LAYING IN THIS FOR THIS ROUND.
UH, THERE IS, IT'S THE SAME COATED DUCTILE IRON EIGHT INCH.
THERE'S A FEW COUPLE, WELL, THERE'S A FEW AREAS WE'RE GONNA BE BORING LITTLE PIPE AND THAT, UM, IT'S GONNA BE A DIFFERENT KIND OF PIPE.
I HAVE TO GIVE YOU A SPECIFICATIONS ON IT.
IT'S A DIFFERENT MANUFACTURER, BUT I BELIEVE IT'S A LITTLE THICKER, BUT IT'S NOT SYNC CODED.
ANYONE ELSE FOR THIS EVENING? RICHARD? THANK YOU, KEVIN.
IN, UH, IN YOUR REPORT, UH, IT APPEARS THAT, UH, ROUGHLY 85% OF THE CRITICAL CUSTOMERS THAT YOU LISTED OUT WAS SOUTH OF I 70.
UH, AND IT APPEARS THAT 85% OF THOSE CRITICAL CUSTOMERS, UM, ALMOST 90% OF THOSE, UH, WERE IN A YELLOW OR RED AREA.
AND, UM, I GUESS I'M JUST LOOKING FOR VERIFICATION IN YOUR PACKAGE LIST OF PROJECTS MM-HMM.
UH, NOT TRYING TO DO THEM ALL AT ONCE IN CERTAIN AREAS.
UM, I DO KNOW THAT, UM, THE DIALYSIS, UH, LOCATION WAS THE MAIN CONCERN OVER THERE.
UM, I, I NOTICED THAT THAT WAS A, A DEFINITELY HIGHLIGHTED AREA THAT YOU HAD MARKED OUT.
CAN YOU SPEAK TO SOME OF THAT MODELING? UM, COMPARED TO THE SOUTH OF I 70 WHERE, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, IT WAS PREVIOUSLY DISCUSSED OF THAT CORROSIVENESS AND, AND THE MAJOR PROJECTS.
THERE IS SOME OLDER COMMERCIAL, UH, AREAS UP THERE.
CAN YOU KIND OF GIVE US A HIGH LEVEL OF SOME OF THE DIFFERENCES THAT YOU FOUND IN THAT REPORTING? YES.
UH, FIRST YEAR YOU ARE ACCURATE COUNCIL HAW IN, IN STATING THAT THE AREAS WHERE WE DO HAVE A HIGHER BREAK RATE AND THOSE MORE CRITICAL CUSTOMERS, THAT THOSE, UH, PIPES WOULD RISE TO THE SURFACE IN TERMS OF WHICH WOULD BE PRIORITIZED FOR REPLACEMENT.
SO WE TALKED ABOUT THE PREDICTIVE TOOL AND HOW LIKELY SOMETHING IS TO FAIL AND THE CONSEQUENCES.
BASICALLY, IT'S A REALLY SIMPLE EQUATION TO DETERMINE WHERE WE PUT OR HOW WE PUT THOSE TOGETHER.
IT'S THE PROBABILITY MULTIPLIED BY THE CONSEQUENCE, AND THAT GIVES YOU AN OVERALL RISK SCORE, IF YOU WILL.
UM, SO OF COURSE THE BENEFIT OF DOING THE WATER MAIN REPLACEMENT WORK IS THAT YOU REDUCE THAT RISK IMMEDIATELY, ALMOST TO ZERO.
OBVIOUSLY THAT PIPE WILL START TO AGE.
UM, AND SO WE PRIORITIZE PIPES BASED ON WHERE THE CITY WOULD SEE THE BIGGEST RISK REDUCTION.
AND SO NATURALLY THAT'S GOING TO OCCUR, UM, WHERE YOU HAVE HIGH RISK CUSTOMERS LIKE THE HOSPITALS, DIALYSIS CENTERS, AND SO FORTH.
THE INTERESTING PART IS THAT GENERALLY SPEAKING, WATER MAIN REPLACEMENTS, YOU DON'T JUST HUNT AND PECK AND SAY, I'M GONNA REPLACE THE HIGHEST RISK PIPE AND THEN THE SECOND HIGHEST RISK PIPE BECAUSE IT WOULD BE LIKE THROWING DARTS AT THE MAP.
AND YOU DON'T WANT TO JUST, I'M GONNA CLOSE THIS STREET, DIG UP THIS 20 FOOT SECTION, THEN CLOSE ANOTHER STREET, DO A 20 FOOT SECTION.
YOU'D HAVE EVERY STREET IN THE CITY WOULD BE CLOSED WHILE YOU'RE DOING REPAIRS.
SO WHAT WE GENERALLY TRY TO DO IS CLUSTER HIGH RISK PIPES TOGETHER, UH, TO COME UP WITH A PROJECT, A PROJECT THAT, UM, MEETS THE CRITERIA THAT WOULD BE ADVERTISABLE.
AND YOU COULD GET CONTRACTORS TO DO THAT REPAIR WORK, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.
WHAT WHAT CAN HAPPEN IS YOU COULD HAVE A VERY HIGH RISK PIPE ON, ON ONE END, FOLLOWED BY MAYBE A MODERATE OR EVEN LOW RISK PIPE, AND THEN ANOTHER HIGH RISK PIPE.
YOU WOULDN'T REPLACE JUST THE TWO HIGH RISK PIPES.
YOU'RE GONNA GO IN AND REPLACE ALL THREE PIPES AT ONCE WHILE YOU'RE, UH, BECAUSE OF ALL THOSE OTHER COSTS OF EXCAVATION, RESURFACING, THE TRAFFIC IMPACTS AND SO FORTH.
UM, SO THAT'S HOW WE CAME UP WITH THE PROJECTS THAT WE RECOMMENDED.
AND AGAIN, UH, ABSOLUTELY WE FEEL LIKE THERE'S MORE OPTIMIZATION THAT CAN BE DONE IN THOSE BASED ON OTHER PRIORITIES THAT THE CITY HAS WITH RESURFACING AND DEVELOPMENT AND SO FORTH.
UM, IN, IN YOUR REPORTING, UM, AND, AND I MAY HAVE OVERLOOKED IT, THAT'S WHY I'M GONNA BRING THIS QUESTION UP.
UM, DID THIS REPORT, UH, PRIMARILY LOOK AT THE MAINS? UM, UM, OR WAS THERE ANY REVIEW OF ANY OF THE VALVES? CAUSE I KNOW VALVES WERE DISCUSSED, UM, A LITTLE BIT.
WE'VE HAD SOME MAJOR PROJECTS HERE IN THE COMMUNITY, UM, AND WE'VE HAD SOME VALVE PROBLEMS WHERE WE'VE HAD, UH, YOU KNOW, TO, TO MAKE SOME SERIOUS IMPROVEMENTS ON,
[01:15:01]
UM, THAT, YOU KNOW, WAS NOT, YOU KNOW, FORESEEN.CAN YOU KIND OF GO OVER SOME OF THE, UH, THE VALVE REPLACEMENT, UM, YOU KNOW, THE LONGEVITY AND, AND THE HEALTH, UH, OF SOME OF THOSE VALVES THAT YOU MAY HAVE REVIEWED DURING SOME OF YOUR DATA WORK? UH, YEAH.
IT, IT'S, UH, A SIMPLE ANSWER.
UNFORTUNATELY, WE DID NOT LOOK AT VALVE, UH, PERFORMANCE.
WE LOOKED AT WATER MAINS EXCLUSIVELY.
UM, THERE WAS, I WILL SAY THIS, HOWEVER, THAT THERE WAS AN ASSET MANAGEMENT PLAN THAT WAS DEVELOPED FOR THE WATER SYSTEM.
IT WAS REQUIRED BY OHIO EPA THAT THE CITY DEVELOPED THAT.
AND IN THAT STUDY THERE WAS, UM, SOME INFORMATION AND ANALYSIS ON VALVES.
UM, I BELIEVE THAT STUDY, UH, MAY BE UPDATED IN THE, IN THE COMING, UH, YEAR OR TWO, IT'S REQUIRED BY OHIO EPA, THAT THAT STUDY IS AT LEAST LOOKED AT, UM, EVERY YEAR.
AND THAT IF THERE ARE UPDATES, UH, SIGNIFICANT UPDATES TO BE MADE, THEY SHOULD BE MADE AT LEAST EVERY THREE YEARS.
SO, SO THERE MAY BE AN OPPORTUNITY TO UPDATE, UM, THAT STUDY AT THIS POINT.
UM, BUT I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE, THEY WERE LOOKED AT COMPREHENSIVELY IN 2018, AND I'M NOT SURE IF THE CITY, UM, OUTSIDE OF OUR SUP, OUR SUPPORT HAS DONE ANY ANALYSIS ON THAT.
UM, ADDITIONALLY, UM, LOOKING AT, UH, SOME OF THE, THE GRAPHS AND THE MODEL WORK THAT, UH, YOU HAD PUT INTO THE ORIGINAL, I THINK IT WAS 80 PLUS PAGE, UH, FALL REPORT THAT CAME OUT MM-HMM.
UM, DID, DID YOUR MODELING TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION ANY OF THE ADDITIONAL, UM, LARGE HOUSING PROJECTS WITHIN THE CITY? OR WAS IT JUST EXISTING STRUCTURES ONLY? UH, WE DID LOOK AT FUTURE GROWTH.
SO, UM, THERE WAS A PARALLEL STUDY, UH, IT'S ACTUALLY STILL BEING CONDUCTED, BUT WE UPDATED THE HYDRAULIC MODEL OF THE CITY, UH, LAST YEAR.
UM, IN THAT STUDY, WE LOOKED AT FUTURE GROWTH OVER THE NEXT 25 YEARS, AND THEN WE, WE USED THAT PREDICTED GROWTH AND FLOWS IN THE SYSTEM AND SO FORTH TO LOOK AT THE PERFORMANCE OF THE EXISTING DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM.
I THINK IT'S ALMOST ENTIRELY GOOD NEWS.
SO, UH, WE DO BELIEVE THAT THE, UH, THE CAPACITY OF THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM IS ADEQUATE AND WILL BE FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE.
UH, WE THOUGHT WE MAY HAVE TO RECOMMEND A WATER MASTER PLAN, UH, DOWN THE ROAD TO ACCOUNT FOR THAT GROWTH.
IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE BELIEVE NEEDS TO TAKE PLACE, UM, OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEARS.
SO THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM CAPACITY, UM, IS, UH, IS ADEQUATE.
AND I WOULD JUST, JUST TO WRAP THAT UP, I DON'T THINK IT WILL HAVE ANY IMPACT ON THE BREAK RATE OF THE SYSTEM.
IT'S NOT SIGNIFICANT ENOUGH THAT THE PRESSURES AND THE FLOWS WOULD CHANGE SIGNIFICANTLY ENOUGH TO IMPACT, UH, WHAT WE DID COVER IN THIS REPORT.
AND, AND IF I CAN PIGGYBACK ON THAT, UH, LOOKING AT SOME OF THE MODELING THAT WAS DONE ON THAT FUTURE, UM, BREAK RATE, THE FUTURE, UM, UH, KIND OF GROWTH THAT, THAT YOU SAID YOUR MODEL PUT IN THERE.
UM, UH, ACCORDING TO THE, UH, THE, UH, A W W A REPORTING ON THAT WITH THE CAPACITY REVIEW AND THAT MAJOR WATER, UM, UM, I, I'M GONNA CALL IT A WATER MASTER PLAN, I, I CAN'T REMEMBER IF THAT WAS THE SAME TERMINOLOGY WE USED.
UM, IT WAS PREVIOUSLY ASKED, YOU KNOW, KIND OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS, YOU KNOW, KIND OF THAT NEXT PLAN, YOU KNOW, AFTER 20 YEARS, UH, YOU HAD SAID, UM, I BELIEVE IN YOUR PREVIOUS COMMENTS THAT IT WAS NEAR, UM, A SUGGESTIVE MODEL FOR THE CITY TO DO A WATER MASTER REPORT, UM, BECAUSE OF SOME OF YOUR MODELING MM-HMM.
UM, AND I THINK, I DO THINK WE RECOMMEND YOU CONSIDER THE WATER MASTER PLAN AT THE END OF THIS FIVE YEAR CYCLE.
UM, OBVIOUSLY A LOT CAN CHANGE BETWEEN NOW AND THEN.
I MEAN, WE KNOW EVERYTHING THAT CHANGED OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS.
UM, AND SO I, I THINK IT'S CERTAINLY WITHIN THE PURVIEW OF THE CITY TO EITHER FOREGO THAT STUDY UNTIL FUTURE DATES, IF THE, IF THE GROWTH IS NOT, UH, AS EXPECTED OR HIGHER THAN EXPECTED.
BUT IF YOU DO, I MEAN, SEVERAL LARGE CUSTOMERS, UM, THAT ARE UNEXPECTED THAT COME TO TOWN, IF THERE'S THAT TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT THAT YOU MAY WANT TO ACCELERATE THAT WATER MASTER PLAN JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAVE CAPACITY, THERE HAVE BEEN MASTER PLANS THAT WERE CONDUCTED IN THE PAST.
WE DREW FROM THAT INFORMATION TO COME TO THE CONCLUSIONS THAT WE DID, UM, IN SAYING THAT, THAT AT LEAST FOR THE NEAR TERM FUTURE, THAT THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM, UM, THE TREATMENT PLANT
[01:20:01]
AND SO FORTH, HAVE ADEQUATE CAPACITY.UH, MAYOR, I'LL WITHHOLD ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS UNTIL THE, UH, NEXT PRESENTATION.
UH, NANCY, AND THEN WE'LL GO BACK TO MARK.
UH, FIRST, DO WE HAVE A, UH, CODE THAT REQUIRES OUR DEVELOPERS, UH, TO USE THIS, UH, DR.
LY WITH THIS ENCODING? WE DO NOT, THEY'RE STILL JUST USING DUCT IRON ON ALL CITY PROJECTS.
I'VE BEEN USING THE ZINC COATING.
SHOULD WE, WE CAN, WE CAN CHANGE THE SPECIFICATION.
I WOULD LIKE TO PROBABLY DO THAT.
UM, AFTER WHATEVER'S GOING ON RIGHT NOW IS FINISHED, LIKE IF SOMEBODY'S IN THE MIDDLE OF DESIGNING WHEN THEY GET DONE AND START A NEW SECTION, THEN WE CAN, BUT WE'D HAVE TO PROBABLY, WE MIGHT HAVE TO TAKE IT TO COUNCIL TO, UH, CHANGE OUR CODE.
BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF DEVELOPMENT GOING ON.
I KNOW THE COST OF THE PIPE ITSELF IS, I THINK, I THINK IT WAS LIKE EIGHT TO 10% HIGHER THOUGH.
WELL, BUT LIKE HE SAID, IF THEY YEAH, LIFE OF IT IS EXTENDED.
IT, ONCE IT GOES IN, WE OWN IT.
ONCE IT, ONCE IT'S IN, WE OWN IT.
YES, I, I'D LIKE TO VERIFY THREE ITEMS. MM-HMM.
IS THAT WHAT I HEARD YOU SAY? THAT IS CORRECT.
AND OUR REPLACEMENT PROGRAM HAS BEEN GOOD, ADEQUATE, AND TAKEN CARE OF THE JOB HIGHLY EFFECTIVE.
UH, ALSO THE BACKLOG OF PIPES.
APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE AND LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU ON MARCH 15TH.
[ Water Infrastructure Update]
OKAY, NEXT UP IS ITEM 3D, WHICH IS THE, UH, WATER INFRASTRUCTURE UPDATE.UH, WE'VE, UH, INCLUDED AN UPDATED, UH, SPREADSHEET WITHIN COUNCIL'S PACKET TO PROVIDE THE MOST UP-TO-DATE INFORMATION AS OF, UH, I BELIEVE IT WAS LAST THURSDAY WHEN THE PACKET WENT OUT.
AND THIS IS JUST THE UPDATED SPREADSHEET THAT, UH, YOU WERE GOING TO MAKE SURE THAT'S IN ALL OF OUR PACKETS MOVING FORWARD.
CORRECT? THAT THAT IS CORRECT, SIR.
ANY SIGNIFICANT CHANGES THERE? JUST OFF OF THE LAST ONE, JUST, UH, THE PREVIOUS SPREADSHEET MEMORIZED
AND, AND, AND, AND, AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT, UM, UH, RUSS AND I DID TALK ABOUT, MAKING SURE THAT IN THE FUTURE THAT WE ANNOTATE WHATEVER CHANGE THAT YOU CAN SEE THAT I BELIEVE IN THIS PARTICULAR, UH, CHART, IT WAS, UM, THE MARDI GRAS START DATE WAS, UH, MOVED UP.
UH, IS THE CHANGE FROM THE LAST CHART.
BUT OTHER THAN THAT, EVERYTHING ELSE REMAINS, UH, CONSISTENT.
ANY QUESTIONS? YES, I NEED TO, SO MARCH 1ST, BEING NEXT WEEK, WHAT ROAD DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO GET STARTED ON FIRST? UM, JUST IN CASE PEOPLE ARE CALLING ME, LET ME LET YOU KNOW.
I THINK IT'S THAT ONE WITH HELL WEEK.
AND THE CONTRACTOR'S SUPPOSED TO START, HE'S TRYING TO FINISH UP ANOTHER JOB.
I'M HOPING IT'S NOT THE LATER WEEK OR TWO, BUT I'LL LET YOU KNOW THAT TOO.
BUT HE'S STILL PLANS ON MARCH 1ST.
UM, RUSS, NOT SOMETHING I, I I NEED RIGHT NOW, HOWEVER, IT WAS REQUESTED BY A RESIDENT.
UH, SO I'M GONNA REACH OUT TO YOU, UH, AS I'M HERE THIS EVENING.
UM, IT WAS REQUESTED THAT, UM, IF THE CITY HAS A CHART BREAKDOWN, UH, IT'S DIS IT WAS DISCUSSED PREVIOUSLY, PREVIOUSLY THIS EVENING OF THE WATER MAINS THAT WE'VE REPLACED, UM, SINCE 2018.
UH, THE REASON I I GO TO 2018 IS THAT'S ABOUT THE TIME THAT WE STARTED PUTTING THE BOOSTER STATIONS ONLINE.
UH, STARTED, WELL, I'M SORRY, STARTED HAVING THOSE CONVERSATIONS WITH THE BOOSTER STATIONS AND THEN, UH, MAY OF 2020 WHEN THE, UH, UM, THE WATER SOFTING WENT ONLINE.
UM, I THINK THAT KIND OF GIVES AN IDEA OF, UM, WHERE WE WERE AT PROACTIVELY, UM, WITH SOME OF THAT REPLACEMENT AND WHERE WE'RE MOVING FORWARD.
I THINK THAT WOULD GIVE COUNCIL A GOOD IDEA OF WHAT WE'VE REPLACED PREVIOUSLY, UM, AND SHOW SOME OF THOSE, UM, WATER INTEGRITY, UM, ISSUES, UH, WITH SOME OF THOSE BUMPS.
UM, SO IF, IF YOU COULD, UH, PUT TOGETHER THAT CHART, I KNOW, I WOULD DEFINITELY LIKE TO SEE THAT.
I THINK THAT WOULD BE, UM, NOT ONLY MYSELF AND SOME RESIDENTS AS WELL.
I'LL PROBABLY BE A GOOD INSERT IN THE, UM, PRESENTATION AS WELL.
SO THE MAP I HAVE WITH THE REPLACEMENTS, IF I PUT DATES ON EACH LINE THAT WAS REPLACED, WOULD THAT WORK? YEAH.
NOW I'LL HAVE A LIST WITH IT TOO.
[ East Sanitary Sewer Extension Project - Award Contract]
OKAY, NEXT UP IS ITEM THREE E, WHICH IS THE EAST SANITARY SEWER EXTENSION PROJECT.UH, WANTED TO BRING THIS ITEM BACK.
THIS WAS A MATTER THAT WAS BEFORE COUNSEL, UH, AT THE PREVIOUS MEETING.
[01:25:01]
UH, AND, UH, WAS A MATTER THAT, UH, FAILED TO ADVANCE FORWARD, UH, AT THAT MEETING.AND, UH, AT THIS POINT, UH, STAFF IS IN A POSITION WHERE WE NEED TO FIND, UM, UH, DIRECTION FROM COUNSEL ON THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT.
UH, THIS IS A MATTER THAT DATES BACK TO, UH, AUGUST OF, UH, 21 WHEN WE BRIEFED COUNSEL ON, ON, UH, ON THE NEED FOR THIS PROJECT.
UH, AND WE'VE MADE CERTAIN COMMITMENTS WITH RESPECT TO, UM, UH, TO THIS PROJECT, UH, BOTH TO, UH, THE OHIO EPA AS WELL AS TO OUR CORPORATE, UH, RESIDENT OLD DOMINION.
AND, UH, AT, AT THIS POINT, UH, I'M HAPPY TO PROVIDE A, A, A SUMMARY OF THAT BRIEFING.
I HAVE THAT READY TO GO IF COUNSEL WOULD, WOULD, WOULD DEEM THAT APPROPRIATE.
BUT AT THIS POINT IN TIME, UM, YOU KNOW, EVERY MEMBER OF THIS DIAS, OR EVERY MEMBER OF THIS COUNCIL, UM, WHO SITS ON THIS DIOCESE AND HAS HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE, UH, IN SUPPORT OF THIS PROJECT, HAS DONE SO AT SOME POINT IN TIME.
UM, AS, UM, AS MOST RECENTLY, MR. LYONS.
UM, AND I BELIEVE HE EXPRESSED HIS OPINION AT THE LAST MEETING BEFORE CASTING HIS VOTE, UH, IN OPPOSITION OF THIS PROJECT.
UM, MR. LYONS HAD HAD FORMALLY CAST A NO VOTE.
UH, BUT, UM, UM, UNFORTUNATELY, UH, THERE WERE, THERE WERE ADDITIONAL MEMBERS OF COUNSEL WHO DID CAST, UH, NEGATIVE VOTES, WHICH, WHICH REQUIRED THAT MEASURE TO FAIL OR, OR COMPELLED THAT MEASURE TO FAIL.
SO NOW WE FIND OURSELVES WITH, UM, THE NEED TO CHOOSE A DIFFERENT ALTERNATIVE, UH, OR POTENTIALLY AN ALTERNATIVE POLICY ON THIS MATTER.
UH, AND WHEN WE ORIGINALLY BRIEFED COUNSEL, UH, WE PRESENTED THREE OPTIONS THAT WERE AVAILABLE.
UH, ONE WAS TO, UH, ENTER INTO AN AGREEMENT WITH CLARK COUNTY, UH, THAT, UH, STAFF DID NOT BELIEVE WAS FAVORABLE TO THE CITY.
UH, THE SECOND ALTERNATIVE, UH, THE SECOND POLICY DIRECTION WE HAD WAS TO, UH, INITIATE LITIGATION, UH, WITH CLARK COUNTY OVER THE EXISTING, UH, UTILITY SERVICE AGREEMENT.
AND, UH, WHILE WE WERE, UM, UM, OF THE OPINION THAT WE WOULD PREVAIL IN LITIGATION, UH, UNFORTUNATELY, LITIGATION TAKES TIME.
IT IS UNPREDICTABLE, UH, AND, UH, IN THIS INSTANCE WOULD ONLY PROVIDE FOR, UH, UTILITY SERVICES NECESSARY FOR OLD DOMINION, LEAVING FUTURE DEVELOPMENT STILL IN QUESTION.
AND THEN THE THIRD ALTERNATIVE THAT WE HAD PRESENTED WAS, UH, THE SANITARY SEWER EAST PROJECT, AS WELL AS THE, UM, EAST WATER MAIN PROJECT.
UH, AND THAT WAS THE DIRECTION THAT WE HAD RECEIVED.
SO, UH, WITH THE EAST WATER MAIN PROJECT MOVING FORWARD, UH, AND NOW THE, UH, THE COUNCIL VOTE, UH, NOT IN FAVOR OF ADVANCING THE EAST, UH, SANITARY SEWER PROJECT, UH, STAFF IS, UH, IN NEED OF SOME ADDITIONAL POLICY DIRECTION.
AND SO WE, UH, WE WANTED THIS MATTER BACK BEFORE COUNCIL AT THIS WORK SESSION, UM, SO WE COULD FIGURE OUT WHAT WE NEED TO DO BECAUSE WE DO HAVE CERTAIN TIME CONSTRAINTS, UH, WITH REGARD TO OUR COMMITMENT TO EPA.
I MEAN, IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION, ANY, UM, ANY ITEMS THAT HE WANTS, WANTS TO ADDRESS HERE BASED ON WHAT HAPPENED AT THE LAST COUNSEL MEETING? RICHARD? THANK YOU, MAYOR.
UH, UNFORTUNATELY I WAS NOT AT THE, UH, PREVIOUS, UH, COUNCIL MEETING.
UM, BUT I, I WILL SHARE YOU WITH YOU MY THOUGHTS.
UH, THE INTERIM CITY MANAGER IS CORRECT.
THIS COUNCIL HAS BEEN BRIEFED PREVIOUSLY.
UM, I BELIEVE IT WA CAN YOU GIMME THAT DATE AGAIN? OCTOBER, AUGUST.
SO IT, THE INTERIM CITY MANAGER IS CORRECT.
UH, WE HAVE PROVIDED, UH, UM, A MAJORITY OF COUNSEL DID PROVIDE A DIRECTION AT THAT TIME TO MOVE FORWARD.
UM, HOWEVER, I WILL TELL YOU MY POSITION, AND AGAIN, I WASN'T HERE.
UM, A LOT HAS CHANGED SINCE THAT TIME PERIOD.
UH, ONE OF THEM, UH, WE, UM, KEVIN JUST GAVE US A HUGE REPORT, UH, THAT, UH, WE HAVE A 20 MILLION BACKLOG IN OUR EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE.
UM, YES, THIS COUNCIL IS MOVING FORWARD ON THAT.
UM, BUT IN MY OPINION, I THINK IT WOULD BE VERY DISINGENUOUS OF US TO MOVE FORWARD ON ANY TYPE OF SHOULD OR COULD OR WOULDA PROJECTS AT THIS TIME UNTIL WE FIND A CONCRETE PLAN TO ADDRESS OUR CURRENT INFRASTRUCTURE AND OUR CURRENT ROADWAYS.
UM, THEREFORE WE DON'T HAVE WATER QUALITY ISSUES, WATER, WATER PRODUCTION ISSUES, SINKHOLE ISSUES, ROAD ISSUES, AND I COULD LIST GOES, GOES ON AND ON AND ON.
UM, SO ME PERSONALLY, MAYOR, LOOKING AT US, UM, UH, LOOKING BACK AT THAT MEETING, SOME OF THE DISCUSSION, LOOKING AT, UH, THE INFORMATION HERE, UM, I, I WOULD PERSONALLY LIKE TO ASK OUR, UH, LAW DIRECTOR WHAT OPTIONS ARE AVAILABLE ON A LEGAL ROUTE.
UH, WITH THAT, CAN WE SATISFY THE OLD DOMINION? UM, CAN A STATE BE PUT IN PLACE WITH, UH, CLARK COUNTY AND BETHEL CLARK, UM, ON ANY TYPE OF, UM, UH, FUNDING, UM, ASPECTS ON THAT WHILE THE LITIGATION IS MOVING FORWARD? AND THEN, UM, I KNOW I'VE PUBLICLY SPOKE UP PREVIOUSLY ON OUR USE OF ARPA FUNDING.
I'VE MADE SOME CONCESSIONS ON TRYING TO MOVE THIS FORWARD.
UM, HOWEVER, SINCE THAT PRESENTATION, UM, WE HAVE RESIDENTS, I THINK, BEATING
[01:30:01]
DOWN EVERY ONE OF OUR DOORS WHEN IT COMES TO TRAFFIC ISSUES.UM, NOW WE HAVE RESIDENTS BEATING DOWN OUR DOORS WHERE WE'RE MAKING SPECIAL PRESENTATIONS FOR WATER ISSUES.
UM, AND THEN WE JUST HAD A PRESENTATION LAST WEEK, UM, FROM TRI-CITIES THAT SAYS, HEY, WE NEED SOME MORE MONEY TOO.
UH, AND INSTEAD OF CONTINUING TO ASK OUR RESIDENTS FOR MORE AND MORE MONEY WITHOUT PUTTING IT TO THE BALLOT, UM, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE EXCESS OF 4 MILLION SIT SITTING HERE IN ARPA USE, UH, THAT THIS COUNCIL IS LEGALLY WITHIN ITS RIGHTS, UM, TO MAKE ANY TYPE OF DIRECTIONAL CHANGES AND MAKE INFRASTRUCTURE, UM, IMPROVEMENTS IMMEDIATELY.
UM, I MEAN, WE HAVE, WE HAVE WATER REPLACEMENT THAT, UH, AND RUSS CAN CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THAT THIS COUNCIL AGREED TO LAST YEAR AND WE'VE NOT EVEN PUT A PIPE ON THE GROUND YET.
SO FROM A RESIDENCE STANDPOINT, UM, DIRT LITTLE FIRED UP.
AND, UM, I WILL TELL YOU, WHEN I CAME BACK FROM MY FAMILY VACATION, UM, AND I, UH, MADE MENTION TO THIS IN A TEXT MESSAGE TO THE INTERIM CITY MANAGER, UM, MY PHONE, UH, WAS INUNDATED CUZ I DIDN'T HAVE ANY SERVICE.
UH, SO WHEN I GOT BACK INTO MIAMI, UM, I HAD, UH, EMAILS, PHONE CALLS, TEXT MESSAGES, COMPLETELY BLOWING MY PHONE UP.
UM, AND, UM, I, I KNOW WE TALKED ABOUT THIS DURING BUDGET TIME THERE, UM, BUT I THINK WE REALLY HAVE GOT TO PUT OUR, OUR FEET TO THE GRINDSTONE.
WE GOTTA LIFT UP THE COUCH CUSHIONS, UH, BEFORE WE START ANY, ANY ADDITIONAL PROJECTS.
UM, I I MEAN WE GOT MAJOR GROWTH THAT IS HAPPENING ON TROY PIKE.
UM, AND YOU KNOW, WE, WE DID OVERTIME FOR SEVERAL POLICE OFFICERS TO STAND OUT THERE AT THE, UH, TO BE PRESENT AT THE CORNER OF MERRI LEE, WAYNE, TROY.
THAT WAS GREAT FOR THE, FOR THE TIME PERIOD, AS HAS, I WAS OUT THERE AT LUNCHTIME TODAY, RIGHT BACK TO WHERE IT'S AT.
I'D BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO SHARE WITH YOU SOME VIDEOS.
THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN ONE, BUT I'VE BEEN THROUGH THERE NUMEROUS TIMES AND IT'S STILL CLEAR.
I'M NOT TRYING TO, TO ARGUE THE POINT, AN ARGUMENT ABOUT TRUMP.
SO BRIAN AND RICHARD, I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS.
SO I THINK WE THINK ABOUT THE, THE, THE EAST SUR MAIN PROJECT, BRIAN, BUT BEFORE YOU GO, WHAT IS, OKAY? YEAH, BECAUSE I THINK, I THINK MAYBE EVERYBODY PROBABLY NEEDS SOME INFORMATION ON, ON WHAT THIS PROJECT ACTUALLY DOES.
COULD YOU GRAB ME BACK QUICK, RUSS? UM, BECAUSE CUZ FROM A WATER PERSPECTIVE TOO, WHAT, WHAT, HOW DOES THIS AFFECT, I MEAN, CAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WATER AND SEWER NOW, NOT JUST FOR OLD DOMINION, BUT FOR EVERYBODY AT WHAT DOES IT DO TO INCREASE OUR CUSTOMER BASE AT CENTER POINT 70, UH, WHICH ARE OUR CORPORATE CUSTOMERS AND TAXPAYERS AS WELL? SURE.
UM, FOR WATER ACCESS AND SEWER ACCESS.
IT'S NOT JUST GOING DOWN CHAMBERSBURG.
I MEAN, SO, SO WHAT DOES THIS, WHAT DOES THIS DO? AND THEN WHAT, WHAT, WHAT ARE, WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES, RIGHT? AND THEN VERSE, AND I'M JUST GONNA ASK AND WHAT, WHAT IS THE OVERALL FINANCIAL PICTURE FROM WHAT THIS COST NOW TO WHAT THE OVERALL COST TO TAXPAYERS IS GONNA BE BASED ON NEW REVENUE OF ALL THESE NEW WATER CUSTOMERS? RIGHT.
UM, THE, UM, AND, AND I'LL, I'LL, I DON'T WANNA REHASH, UM, ALL OF THIS, BUT, UH, JUST TO PUT THIS IN CONTEXT VERY QUICKLY, UM, THIS MAP REPRESENTS OUR EXISTING UTILITY, UM, ARRANGEMENT UP ON THE, UH, NORTHEAST SIDE OF THE CITY.
SO THE COLORED AREAS, THE PEACH AND THE PURPLE CURRENTLY REPRESENT THE AREAS THAT ARE SERVICED, UH, BY CLARK COUNTY WATER AND SEWER.
AND, UH, THIS LITTLE DOT RIGHT HERE, UH, REPRESENTS OLD DOMINION.
AND, UH, WE CAN TALK ABOUT, UH, SOME OTHER COMPONENTS HERE.
BUT, UM, THIS IS EFFECTIVELY THE UTILITY SYSTEM IN AND OF ITSELF, UM, THAT, THAT WE'RE WORKING OR THAT WE'RE TRYING TO, TO ADDRESS.
UM, THE PROJECT INVOLVES A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT COMPONENTS.
UH, THE PROJECT INVOLVES, UM, BOTH THE AGREEMENT FOR CLARK COUNTY TO PROVIDE UTILITIES IN THE COLORED AREAS, BUT THEN THERE ALSO EXISTS, UH, THIS JOINT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT, UM, CREATED, UM, 20 SOME YEARS AGO.
WE'VE NEVER HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO USE IT.
AND OLD DOMINION PRESENTS THE LAST BEST OPPORTUNITY, UH, FOR THE CITY TO BE, OR FOR CLARK COUNTY TO BE ABLE TO UTILIZE, UH, THIS JOINT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT.
THE SHORT VERSION OF THE JOINT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT IS THAT, UM, THE PROPERTY STAYS WITHIN, UH, BETHEL CLARK, BUT THE CITY HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO LEVY ITS INCOME TAX ON THAT PROPERTY.
THE TRADE OFF FOR, UH, THE CITY IS WE COLLECT INCOME TAX OR PORTION OF INCOME TAX IN THIS INSTANCE, 80, I BELIEVE IT'S 80%, UM, FROM PROPERTY THAT'S NOT IN THE CITY.
SO WE WOULDN'T HAVE ACCESS TO THAT REVENUE.
UH, BUT WE GIVE A LITTLE BIT TO, UH, BETHEL CLARK.
THE BENEFIT TO, UH, BETHEL CLARK IS THAT THE TERMS OF THE JED PROHIBIT FURTHER ANNEXATION.
SO THAT'S, UH, A A KIND OF A SPLIT THE BABY, IF YOU WILL, FOR FOR BOTH PARTIES.
EVERYBODY KIND OF GETS SOMETHING.
UM, CAN YOU FRAME REAL QUICK, DO YOU HAVE, AS PART OF YOUR PRESENTATION, ADDITIONAL
[01:35:01]
REVENUES FROM INCOME TAX? THAT'S GONNA, UH, YEAH, AND WE CAN, WE CAN TALK SPECIFICALLY RELATED TO OLD DOMINION.UH, WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO PUT TOGETHER, UM, IN LIGHT OF WHAT OCCURRED AT THE LAST MEETING.
WE HAVEN'T HAD TIME TO PUT TOGETHER IN THE BROADER PERSPECTIVE, BUT THERE ARE SOME OTHER THINGS THAT WE CAN TALK ABOUT, UM, WHAT THIS, UH, LOOKS TO BENEFIT.
UM, AGAIN, WE TALKED ABOUT THE THREE OPTIONS AT THE TIME.
THERE'S LITIGATION, UH, THERE'S A NEW AGREEMENT, UH, AND THEN THERE IS, UM, UH, THE EXTENSION EFFECTIVELY THE, UH, LAST NEGOTIATED TERMS THAT CLARK COUNTY PUT ON THE TABLE.
AND THEY ARE UNWILLING TO NEGOTIATE OTHER TERMS BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT.
IS THAT IN EXCHANGE NOW FOR ALL OF THE PEACH AREA, THE CITY WOULD AGREE TO, UM, ENSURE THAT ALL OF THESE PROPERTIES IN RED ARE NOW SUBJECT TO THE JED AND WE WOULD NOT ATTEMPT ANY ANNEXATION FOR A HUNDRED YEARS.
UM, IN ADDITION TO THAT, THEY ALSO WANT TO CHANGE THE TERMS OF THE JED, WHERE THE INCOME TAX IS NOW SPLIT, A THIRD, A THIRD, A THIRD, AND THE CITY WOULD BE REQUIRED TO PAY FOR ONE THIRD OF ALL INFRASTRUCTURE IN THE JED WITH A SIMPLE MAJORITY OF THE JED BEING ABLE TO EXPAND THE DISTRICT.
NOW, WHY THAT MATTERS IS BECAUSE, UH, THESE COLOR AREAS ARE IN, UH, BETHEL CLARK.
THEY ARE OWNED BY, UM, UH, AN INVESTMENT, UH, UH, PARTY.
AND THEY ARE ALSO NOW CURRENTLY ALL UNDER CONTRACT, UH, WITH I BELIEVE IT IS, UH, I, UH, WITH THE LISTING AGENT.
THE MAJORITY OF THESE PROPERTIES ARE OWNED BY, UH, MCMAHON, UH, AND, UH, THEY ALL HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO BE DEVELOPED FOR INDUSTRIAL PURPOSES.
IF YOU LOOK AT, UH, COMPARATIVELY SPEAKING, CENTER POINT, SEVENTIES, APPROXIMATELY 500 ACRES, UH, IF WE WERE TO LOOK AT THE SAME TYPE OF WATER INFRASTRUCTURE, SEWER INFRASTRUCTURE AND, UH, STREET INFRASTRUCTURE, IF WE WERE TO APPLY THOSE MEASUREMENTS TO THE CLARK COUNTY SIDE OF THE LINE UNDER THE TERMS OF THEIR JED, THE CITY WOULD BE ON THE HOOK FOR ALMOST $6.8 MILLION WORTH OF INFRASTRUCTURE, WHICH WE WOULD BE OBLIGATED TO PAY AND NO ABILITY TO, UM, AND, UH, AND NO ABILITY TO PROHIBIT OR PRECLUDE FROM HAPPENING.
SO THAT'S, UM, WHERE WE ARE, UH, CURRENTLY WITH, SO UNDER THE CURRENT AGREEMENT, ANYTHING THERE IN BLUE THAT GETS DEVELOPED INDUSTRIAL, WE'RE ON THE HOOK FOR INFRASTRUCTURE WITHOUT ANY OF THE REVENUE.
BETHEL AND CLARKE COULD EFFECTIVELY VOTE TO EXPAND THIS DISTRICT ON A SIMPLE MAJORITY FROM THE JED TO ANY ONE OF THESE PROPERTIES.
AND IN SO DOING AUTOMATICALLY WOULD THEN COMPEL THE CITY TO PAY ONE THIRD OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE.
AND WE WOULDN'T HAVE AN ABILITY TO SAY NO IF ALL OF THIS ACREAGE WAS DEVELOPED.
IN THE SAME WAY THAT ALL OF THIS ACREAGE IS, WE ESTIMATE THAT OUR ONE THIRD PRICE TAG WOULD BE ABOUT SIX.
I THINK IT'S $6.8 MILLION, ABOUT $6 MILLION IS WHAT THAT WOULD BE.
SO ARE WE GOING TO GET, GET ENOUGH OFFSETTING REVENUE FROM OUR ONE THIRD TO COVER OUR 6.8 MILLION? I DON'T BELIEVE SO, BUT, UM, IT'S POSSIBLE, BUT I DO NOT BELIEVE SO.
UM, THEN THERE IS THE PROJECT THAT WE PROPOSED BECAUSE CLARK AND, UM, BECAUSE CLARK AND, UH, EXCUSE ME, CLARK COUNTY PROVIDES BOTH WATER AND SEWER.
UH, WE WOULD EXTEND OUR EXISTING WATER, UH, MAIN UP HERE TO COLLECT AND NOW MAKE SERVICEABLE.
THESE RESIDENTS ARE THESE CORPORATE RESIDENTS.
SO THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE SENDING THEIR WATER REVENUE TO CLARK COUNTY.
THAT'S MONEY THAT WE CAN'T USE TO UPGRADE OR MAINTAIN OUR SYSTEM BY CONNECTING THIS.
AND WE OWN THE PIPE THAT'S IN THE GROUND UP HERE ALREADY.
SO ALL WE'RE DOING IS CONNECTING OUR SYSTEM TO OUR SYSTEM, PUSHING IT FULL OF OUR WATER SO THAT WE CAN COLLECT THE REVENUE.
SO THIS WOULD ALLOW US TO GARNER ADDITIONAL CUSTOMERS.
I BELIEVE THE FLOW WAS ABOUT 65,000 GALLONS OR SO ANNUALLY.
UM, SO WHAT WE CAN EXTRAPOLATE THAT, WE JUST HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO DO THAT, BUT IT'S ABOUT 65,000 GALLONS ANNUALLY FROM THE EXISTING, UH, CUSTOMERS.
THEN, UM, THIS IS THE PROJECT IN QUESTION.
THIS HAS ALREADY BEEN APPROVED BY COUNSEL.
THIS HAS ALREADY BEEN AWARDED TO A CONTRACTOR, OR THIS PROJECT IS SET TO BEGIN.
UH, I BELIEVE IT IS IN THE NEXT TWO OR THREE WEEKS.
THIS IS THE PROJECT IN QUESTION HERE.
THIS IS, UM, SANITARY SEWER AND, UH, WOULD CONNECT THE EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE HERE.
AND RATHER THAN SEND IT TO CLARK COUNTY, UH, WE WOULD SEND IT TO THE FAIRBORNE PLANT.
UH, FAIRBORNE UNDER ITS CONTRACT IS PROVIDING, UH, OUR CUSTOMERS THE SAME, UH, UTILITY RATE THAT IT'S PROVIDING ITS CUSTOMERS.
THERE ARE NO MARKUPS, THERE'S NO PLUS UPS.
UH, WE, UH, BEING THAT, UH, FAIRBORNE IS A, UM, MUNICIPAL CORPORATION RECOGNIZED UNDER THE STATE OF OHIO, WE HAVE NO ABILITY TO ANNEX ANY OF ITS PROPERTY.
IT IS NOT FEARFUL OF US DOING A LAND GRAB, AND WE ARE NOT FEARFUL OF IT AND DOING A LAND GRAB OF US.
SO IT'S A MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL AGREEMENT IN THE FACT THAT WE KNOW THAT OUR BORDERS ARE STABLE, UH, AND, UH, THAT THAT PRICING IS, IS FIXED.
[01:40:01]
IS BEING PAID FOR SOLELY BY, UH, REVENUES THAT, EXCUSE ME, BY FUNDS THAT EXIST WITHIN THE SANITARY, UH, SEWER FUND.SO THESE ARE FUNDS THAT CAN'T BE USED TO HIRE FIREFIGHTERS.
THESE ARE FUNDS THAT CAN'T BE USED TO BUILD ROADS.
THESE ARE FUNDS THAT CAN'T BE USED TO BUILD WATER MAIN.
THESE ARE FUNDS THAT CAN ONLY BE USED TO CONSTRUCT AND PAY FOR EXPENSES RELATED TO SEWER, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE WITH RESPECT TO THE ARPA MONEY.
WHEN WE PUT THE 2000, UH, AND 23 BUDGET TOGETHER, ALL OF THE ARPA MONEY WAS ASSIGNED TO THE WATER FUND.
THE EAST WATER MAIN PROJECT WILL TAKE APPROXIMATELY 3.2 MILLION OF THAT MONEY, BUT THAT LEAVES AN ADDITIONAL $800,000 AVAILABLE FOR WATER RELATED EXPENSES.
THE ISSUE IS, IS THAT NOT THAT WE DON'T WANNA SPEND THE MONEY ON WATER, THE ISSUE IS THERE'S NO PIPE AVAILABLE, THERE'S NO ENGINEERED WORK.
SO THE FUNDS ARE AVAILABLE TO COMMIT TO WATER THAT WE HAVE BEEN PROVIDED BY ARPA.
BUT AGAIN, WE CAN'T MAKE THE PIPE GET HERE FASTER.
WE CAN'T MAKE THE ENGINEERING HAPPEN SOONER.
WELL, WHEN IT IS, THERE'LL BE AN EXTRA $800,000 GIVE OR TAKE AVAILABLE THAT WOULD OTHERWISE NOT BE.
SO TO SAY THAT ASKING COUNSEL TO SUPPORT THIS PROJECT TO SAY THAT THIS PROJECT IS DERIVING US OF, UM, OTHER, OTHER PROJECTS THAT ARE NEEDED BY THE COMMUNITY IS NOT AN ACCURATE REPRESENTATION BASED ON THE DEMANDS THAT HAVE BEEN PROVIDED HERE.
THAT BY DOING THIS PROJECT, WE'RE NOT TAKING CARE OF EXISTING ROAD INFRASTRUCTURE BY BUILDING THIS PROJECT.
WE'RE NOT TAKING CARE OF EXISTING WATER INFRASTRUCTURE.
THE FUNDS USED TO BUILD THIS PROJECT ARE SPECIFICALLY DEDICATED FOR SEWER PURPOSES.
WE'RE NOT BUILDING ANY NEW STREET INFRASTRUCTURE HERE.
AND THE MONEY THAT WE ARE USING ISN'T MONEY THAT COULD BE USED FOR STREET INFRASTRUCTURE OR OTHER OPERATIONAL EXPENSES.
SO, UM, THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE WE FIND OURSELVES AND THAT'S WHY WE NEED SOME TYPE OF DIRECTION BECAUSE WE'VE MADE THIS COMMITMENT TO, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'VE MADE THIS COMMITMENT TO, UH, BOTH, UH, OLD DOMINION AND TO THE EPA.
SO THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, IS THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE COULD BE ADDITIONAL CONSEQUENCES, NOT JUST WITH UM, UH, CLARK COUNTY, BUT WITH THE EPA.
THERE, THERE'S ADDITIONAL DEVELOPABLE PROPERTY WITHIN CENTER POINT 70 THAT IF THIS ISSUE ISN'T RECTIFIED, WE WON'T BE ABLE TO DEVELOP THAT EITHER, BECAUSE THERE WON'T BE A WAY TO PROVIDE THEM SANITARY SEWER WORK IF WE ARE UNABLE TO REACH AN, UH, AN ACCEPTABLE OUTCOME TO THE CITY WITH CLARK COUNTY OVER THE MATTER OF UTILITY SERVICES.
SO IF WE LITIGATE AND THE LITIGATION LIMITS CONNECTIVITY ONLY TO OLD DOMINION, WHAT ABOUT ALL THE OTHER, UH, LOTS? AND BY THE WAY, ALL OF THE PROPERTY THAT H R I HAS LISTED WITHIN THE CITY OF HUBER HEIGHTS IS ALSO CURRENTLY UNDER CONTRACT.
SO IF THOSE PROJECTS ALL COME FORWARD IN SOME WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM, WE HAVE NO WAY TO GUARANTEE THAT THEY CAN PROVIDE SEWER.
WE HAVE AN ABILITY TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY CAN GET WATER BECAUSE THE COUNTY, UH, PUBLIC HEALTH WILL ISSUE THEM A WELL, THAT'S WHAT THEY DID IN THE INCIDENCE OF, UM, OF OLD DOMINION.
SO WE HAVE AN ABILITY TO DO THAT.
BUT IF THE SOILS DON'T PERK, IF FOR WHATEVER REASON THERE ARE OTHER ISSUES, UM, THE, UM, WE CAN'T GUARANTEE THAT THEY'RE GONNA HAVE ACCESS TO SEWER UTILITY.
THE OTHER THING THAT, UM, THAT THIS SYSTEM DOES IS IT OPENS UP ALL OF THESE PROPERTIES.
IT'S ABOUT 3,400 ACRES, I THINK IT IS, 3,600 ACRES.
AND THIS AREA IN BLUE IS NOW ALL SERVICEABLE, OR AT LEAST HAS AN ABILITY, UH, TO RECEIVE SERVICE, UH, THROUGH THIS PIPE.
SO THESE RESIDENTS, THESE HOMEOWNERS, THESE PROPERTY OWNERS, THEY ALL NOW HAVE AN ABILITY TO ACCESS IN SOME WAY, SHAPE OR FORM.
UM, PUBLIC UTILITIES, WHICH DON'T EXIST RIGHT NOW, UH, DON'T EXIST TO THEM RIGHT NOW.
THE PRESENCE OF THIS LINE MEANS THAT ANY FURTHER DEVELOPMENT IN HERE, WHICH WOULD OTHERWISE CREATE ADDITIONAL INFRASTRUCTURE COST.
SO IF YOU CONSIDER THE CITY IS, THERE'S BASICALLY A BIG RIDGE THAT RUNS RIGHT DOWN THIS WAY.
AND THERE'S A BIG RIDGE THAT RUNS RIGHT DOWN THIS WAY.
YOU'D HAVE TO BASICALLY BUILD THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND PUMP ALL THE WASTEWATER OVER TO THE PLANT.
SO THIS ACTUALLY HELPS ADDRESS THE ISSUE, UH, OF CAPACITY OVER AT TRI-CITIES BECAUSE IT'S CREATING AN OUTLET FOR, UM, YOU KNOW, FOR UM, WHAT WOULD BE THIS FUTURE DEVELOPMENT.
BUT IT ALSO CREATES, UM, AVENUES FOR THIS SEWAGE AT SOME POINT IN TIME TO BE DIVERTED AWAY FROM TRI-CITIES AND DOWN TO THE FAIRBORNE PLANT.
[01:45:01]
THE MAYOR'S QUESTION ABOUT WHAT DOES, UH, REVENUE LOOK LIKE BASED ON THE, UM, UH, BASED ON THE CURRENT, UH, INFORMATION THAT THE CITY HAS WITH REGARD TO, UH, THE OLD DOMINION PROJECT, WHICH IS A 5 MILLION TO PAYROLL, UH, AND A 5 MILLION INITIAL INVESTMENT.AND BY THE WAY, THIS IS A LOCATION WHERE THEY DO PLAN TO, UM, CONSOLIDATE, UH, OTHER HUBS, UH, OTHER TRANSIT HUBS WITHIN THE REGION.
UH, JUST FROM, UH, JUST FROM THE, THESE TWO PROJECTS, WE WOULD LOOK TO SEE, UH, APPROX OR JUST FROM THE, THIS ONE COMPONENT, THE 5 MILLION INFRASTRUCTURE AND THEN THE 5 MILLION PAYROLL, UH, OVER THE NEXT, UH, 10 YEAR PERIOD, WE'D SEE APPROXIMATELY 83,000, UH, $900 IN PROPERTY TAX AND ANOTHER, UH, $1.2 MILLION, UM, IN INCOME TAX.
AND THAT'S MONEY THAT CAN BE SPENT ON ROADS AND THAT'S MONEY THAT CAN BE SPENT ON FIREFIGHTERS.
AND THAT IS MONEY THAT THAT CAN BE SPENT ON, ON OTHER OPERATIONAL COMPONENTS OF THE CITY.
UM, AND SO, AND THAT IS WITHOUT ANY INCENTIVES OR ANY OTHER ADDITIONAL, UH, BENEFITS WHICH THE CITY MIGHT BE ABLE TO NEGOTIATE WITH, UH, OLD DOMINION, THEY ARE STILL OPERATING, I BELIEVE, UNDER A TEMPORARY OCCUPANCY PERMIT.
AND THAT OCCUPANCY PERMIT IS SET TO EXPIRE.
I BELIEVE IT IS JUNE 1ST, UM, BECAUSE THAT'S WHEN THEY'RE, UH, THAT'S, UM, WHEN THEY NEED TO BE CONNECTED TO UM, SANITARY SEWER UTILITY.
BUT, UM, SO IS WHAT, 1.2, 1.3 MILLION, 1.2 MILLION CONSERVATIVELY, UH, CORRECT, THAT'S ON CORRECT.
THAT ASSUMES THAT THERE IS NO INFLATION OVER TIME AND THAT ALSO ASSUMES THAT OUR INCOME TAX, UH, RATE DOES NOT CHANGE NOR DO THEY EXPAND.
SO, AND THEN, UM, AS WE TALK ABOUT LOOKING UNDER THE COUCH CUSHIONS, I MEAN THAT'S ABOUT A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS OR $110,000 A YEAR OVER THE NEXT 10 YEARS.
THAT CAN GO TO A LOT OF OTHER THINGS.
THAT SOUNDS LIKE DIGGING UNDER THE COUCH CUSHION.
UM, BRIAN, I I I WANT TO TALK ABOUT, UM, OLD DOMINION CUZ I, I KNOW THE MERIT BROUGHT IT UP.
WE JUST DISCUSSED IT TO TAX MONEY.
UM, IS IT YOUR BELIEF? AND IF NOT, WE CAN ASK THE LAW DIRECTOR THAT IF WE WENT INTO LITIGATION, CUZ I BELIEVE IN YOUR SLIDE IT SAYS WE WOULD BE HIGHLY SUCCESSFUL IN THAT, THAT EVEN WITH THE, UM, GOING THROUGH LITIGATION AND OBTAINING A STAY ON THAT, THAT THE OLD DOMINION, UM, WOULD STILL FALL UNDERNEATH US AND WE WOULD STILL GET THAT TAX REVENUE.
SO I JUST WANNA STOP THERE FOR A MOMENT.
SO OPTION ONE, LITIGATION MAYOR, WE'D STILL GET THAT TAX MONEY.
UM, QUESTION TWO, AS OF RIGHT NOW, AND IF WE NEED TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION, I'D BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO SUGGEST THAT.
IS THERE ANYTHING IN THAT ORANGE AREA RIGHT THERE THAT IS CURRENTLY INKED, NOT SUDA, NOT COULDA, NOT POSSIBLE, NOT UNDER CONTRACT.
IS THERE ANYTHING 100% GUARANTEED IN THAT ORANGE RIGHT NOW THAT WOULD BENEFIT THE CITY OF HUBER HEIGHTS? NO, THERE IS NOT.
SECOND QUESTION, IF I MAY, IN THE BLUE AREA DOWN THERE, UH, THAT'S HIGHLIGHTED, IS THERE ANYTHING CURRENTLY INKED OR CURRENTLY A BENEFICIAL ASSET TO THE RESIDENTS OF HUBER HEIGHTS IN THAT BLUE AREA AS FAR AS ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT? NO, THERE IS NO.
SO MAYOR, BASED ON THOSE QUESTIONS THAT THE INTERIM CITY MANAGERS PROVIDED US GOING THROUGH LITIGATION WILL STILL BE ABLE TO GET THE OLD DOMINION PROPERTY.
WE'LL STILL BE ABLE TO GET THE INCOME TAX.
THERE'S NOTHING CURRENTLY OF ASSET INKED SIGNED SEAL AND DELIVERED TO THE RESIDENTS AND TO THIS COUNCIL IN THE ORANGE OR BLUE AREA.
IS THERE POSSIBILITIES? YES, WE HAVE POSSIBILITIES ALL OVER OUR COMMUNITY THAT WE CAN TALK ABOUT, BUT IN MY OPINION RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF WHAT WE HAVE.
NOW, THE INTERIM CITY MANAGER IS CORRECT ON A STATEMENT THAT I KIND OF MISSPOKE ON.
CAN WE USE ARPA MONEY DIRECTLY FOR CERTAIN ITEMS? NO, WE CAN'T JUST LIKE TO BUILD BACK BETTER FUNDS THAT'S AVAILABLE, THE INFRASTRUCTURE FUNDS THAT'S AVAILABLE, THEY HAVE TO BE TIED TO CERTAIN THINGS.
HOWEVER, ALL OF THOSE MONIES GO DIRECTLY INTO OUR GENERAL FUND.
CAN WE REALLOCATE THOSE MONIES, UM, TO LESSEN UP, UH, DIFFERENT FUND AVAILABILITIES? WE SURE CAN.
AND MAYOR, I BELIEVE YOU'VE EVEN SAID IT DIRECTLY, WE'VE GOT X AMOUNT OF DOLLARS IN OUR GENERAL FUND, WE CAN SPEND IT.
SO WITH THAT BEING PRESENTED, COUNSEL, THAT IS, THAT IS WHERE I'M AT.
AND, AND, AND YES, I'VE HAD THE CONVERSATION, BRIAN, AND WE HAVE SAT DOWN AT LENGTH AND, AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, AUGUST, OCTOBER, UM,
[01:50:01]
THAT WAS BEFORE THIS REPORT.YOU KNOW, I'M GETTING PICTURES OF, OF SEEING CALLS.
UH, YOU KNOW, THAT'S BEFORE, YOU KNOW, WE DID A WHOLE, YOU KNOW, OVERTIME A POLICE STUDY.
UM, AND WE'RE NOW, WE'RE WAITING ON A WHOLE TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY REPORT.
UM, I JUST THINK THAT I, I CAN'T, I, I REALLY CAN'T MOVE.
I MEAN, I HAVE COMPROMISED, I KNOW I'VE HAD GREAT CONVERSATIONS WITH COUNCILMAN CAMPBELL, UM, YOU KNOW, I I BEHIND CLOSED DOORS AND, AND A GREAT TELEPHONE CONVERSATION.
UM, AND I WANTED TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION, UH, WITH THESE INDIVIDUALS, UH, WHEN I CAME BACK FROM MY FAMILY VACATION.
BUT WE'VE GOT TO WORK ON WHAT WE GOT FOLKS.
I CAN'T, I, I'M, THAT'S WHERE I'M AT.
I'LL, I'LL CONCUR WITH MR. SHAW.
I THINK WE HAVE SO MUCH, IT'S NOT REALLY EVEN AS MONEY DRIVEN AS IT IS, JUST FOCUS DRIVEN FOR ME AND SO MUCH TO WORK ON CURRENTLY AND, AND, AND WHAT WE HAVE TO SERVICE THE 43,000 RESIDENTS THAT ARE HERE RIGHT NOW.
UH, I'M NOT SO SURE WE SHOULD BE FOCUSED ON CREATING ADDITIONAL, WE'RE GONNA HAVE NATURAL GROWTH ANYWAY.
UM, BUT I THINK RIGHT NOW I THINK OUR FOCUS NEEDS TO BE TURNED INWARD ON APPROVING AND, UM, AND CREATING SPACE FOR WHO WE HAVE RIGHT NOW.
UM, THAT'S THE REASON I'M, I'M PUSHING BACK AGAINST THIS.
UH, ADDITIONALLY, JUST A QUICK QUESTION.
IF THESE ARE SEWER FUNDS, UM, OR WE'RE GONNA BE, UH, WELL IT'S, IT'S, IT'S ALREADY CAME OUT OF THE POCKET AND IT'S COMING OUT.
UM, WE'RE GONNA BE ASKED FOR MONEY FROM TRI-CITIES, RIGHT? CORRECT.
THIS IS MONEY THAT COULD GO TO TRI-CITIES CORRECT.
SO THERE ARE OTHER THINGS WE CAN USE IT FOR.
I JUST, YOU KNOW, AND, AND I, LIKE MR. SHAW SAID THE SAME THING, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE WERE EARLY DISCUSSING SOME OF THESE THINGS, IT, IT WAS KIND OF EXCITING TO ME AS WELL, SOME OF THE POTENTIAL THAT WAS OUT THERE.
BUT THAT WAS A COUPLE YEARS AGO AND THINGS HAVE CHANGED.
UM, I JUST THINK OUR FOCUS NEEDS TO REMAIN TURNED INWARD A LITTLE BIT.
AND RIGHT NOW, I DON'T THINK THIS IS THE, THE PROJECT WE NEED TO FOCUS ON.
UM, I ALSO HAVE ONE OTHER QUESTION.
UM, YOU MENTIONED, UH, WHAT WAS IT, YOU MENTIONED THESE THREE OPTIONS.
JUST, JUST OUTTA CURIOSITY, IF YOU CAN JUST ENTERTAIN ME WITH THIS.
W WHAT'S A DO NOTHING OPTION? WHAT DOES THAT, WHAT WHAT ENDS UP HAPPENING IF
AND ABOUT THE ONLY THING WE CAN DO IS SUE TO ENFORCE THAT.
IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? LITIGATE TO ENFORCE THE CURRENT AGREEMENT, THE UTILITY AGREEMENT.
SO WOULD A DO NOTHING SITUATION LOOK LIKE? WHAT WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE? UM, WE'RE GETTING WALKED ON AND WE CONTINUE TO GET WALKED ON.
IS THAT THE WAY YOU SEE IT OR JUST NO, NO.
WE'RE IN A SITUATION AND IT STAYS UNTIL 25 AND THEN WE GOTTA FIGURE OUT A NEW SITUATION.
WELL, THE JET AGREEMENT AND THE UTILITY AGREEMENT ARE TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS.
SO IF I WERE, I'LL PUT MY, UM, I'LL PUT MY OLD DOMINION HAT ON.
SO I'M OLD DOMINION AND I'VE CHOSEN TO LOCATE IN THIS COMMUNITY AND THE COMMUNITY HAS WORKED AGGRESSIVELY TO ADDRESS MY NEEDS.
I EMPLOY PEOPLE WHO, UH, MAY LIVE IN THAT COMMUNITY.
UH, I PAY TAX TO THAT COMMUNITY.
AND, UH, THROUGH NO FAULT OF MY OWN, UH, AS THE BUSINESS, I'M BEING TREATED THIS WAY FOR CLARK COUNTY, BY CLARK COUNTY, I HAVE THE OPTION NOW TO EXPAND MY BUSINESS.
I HAVE THE OPTION TO PAY MORE TAX TO THE CITY.
I HAVE THE OPTION TO EMPLOY MORE PEOPLE WHO WOULD WORK IN THE CITY, MIGHT LIVE IN THE CITY.
UM, BUT WHEN I, AS OLD DOMINION LOOKED TO MY PARTNER, THE CITY, UM, TO HELP ME, THE CITY TURNED AROUND AND SAID, UH, THANKS, BUT NO, UM, DON'T NECESSARILY KNOW THAT I WOULD THEN CHOOSE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH MY PLANS TO EXPAND BOTH MY FACILITY AND MY EMPLOYMENT BASE.
IF I'M THE NEIGHBORING BUSINESS, IF I'M IA, IF I'M, UM, UH, IF I'M MULO INDUSTRIES, IF I'M ANY ONE OF THOSE MS. HELL, I MIGHT NOT EVEN BE A BUSINESS LOCATED IN CENTER POINT 70.
MAYBE I'M, MAYBE I'M TRIMBLE AND, AND I SEE THE CITY TREAT ANOTHER CORPORATE CITIZEN THAT PARTICULAR WAY.
WELL, GOSH, I I DON'T NECESSARILY KNOW WHETHER OR NOT, UM, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER OR NOT I, I'D LIKE TO IN INCREASE THE INVESTMENT OF MY BUSINESS WITHIN THE COMMUNITY.
BUT TO YOUR QUESTION, IF WE DO NOTHING, UM, WILLOW DOMINION STILL PAY TAX ON THEIR 5 MILLION FACILITY? YEAH.
WILL THEY STILL EMPLOY APPROXIMATELY 5 MILLION PEOPLE? YEAH.
WILL THE EPA STEP IN, IN FINE THE CITY? MAYBE WILL THE EPA STEP IN AND FIND, UM, UH, OLD DOMINION? MAYBE WILL THE EPA STEP IN AND ORDER, UH, UH, CONSENT DECREE TO CLARK COUNTY TO ACCEPT?
[01:55:01]
I DON'T KNOW, BUT UM, I CAN TELL YOU THIS MUCH.UM, IF WE WIND UP IN THAT TYPE OF SITUATION, WE LITIGATE.
WHILE THERE MIGHT NOT BE A DEAL INKED TODAY, WHILE THERE MIGHT NOT BE AN DEAL INKED TOMORROW THOSE PROPERTIES ARE ACTIVELY FOR SALE.
THOSE PROPERTIES ARE ALL ACTIVELY, UM, UM, UNDER, UM, UNDER CONTRACT.
HOW, HOW ARE WE GOING TO BE ABLE TO SERVICE THOSE BUSINESSES WHEN THE SERVICE COMES FROM AN ORGANIZATION WHERE THE BEST RELATIONSHIP WE HAVE IS STANDING IN FRONT OF A JUDGE.
UH, YOU MENTIONED EARLIER, UH, IF, UH, REFERRING TO, UM, HOW CLARK COUNTY TREATS, UM, WHO WAS IT WE MENTIONED, OR WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE PARTICULAR BUSINESS UP THERE? OLD ION, SORRY, OLD DOMINION.
UM, CAN YOU ELABORATE? I, I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS, THE WAY CLARK COUNTY TREATS THEM.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
SO WE HAVE AN AGREEMENT, WE HAVE A CONTRACT WITH CLARK COUNTY THAT SAYS UNDER CERTAIN TERMS AND CONDITIONS, THEY ARE, THEY ARE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE SERVICE, UTILITY SERVICE TO OUR, OUR RESIDENTS, OUR CUSTOMERS, OUR CONSUMERS.
SO IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE, UM, CLARK COUNTY IS CHOOSING TO DISREGARD THAT.
AND EFFECTIVELY, UM, THEY ARE, THEY'VE, THEY'VE DRIVEN COSTS EXCEEDINGLY HIGH FOR OLD DOMINION TO BE ABLE TO COMPLETE THEIR PROJECT AT ITS CURRENT LOCATION.
THAT'S THE BEHAVIOR THAT I'M REFERRING TO.
AND THAT, AND THAT SOUNDS LIKE TO ME THAT, UH, LITIGATION, UH, UH, UM, SOMETHING WE PROBABLY SHOULD DO TO PROTECT THOSE PEOPLE.
UH, WELL, AND IF THAT'S THE DIRECTION OF COUNSEL, THEN THAT'S WHAT WE AS STAFF ARE LOOKING FOR.
IT'S NOT THE DIRECTION, OBVIOUSLY, WE'VE PROVIDED YOU THE RECOMMENDATION THAT WE THOUGHT WAS MOST APPROPRIATE, BUT AS THE POLICY BODY, IF YOU FEEL THAT IT'S THE MORE APPROPRIATE DIRECTION TO, WELL, HERE'S WHAT I INITIATE LITIGATION ON THIS PARTICULAR MATTER, THEN THAT'LL BE THE DIRECTION THAT STAFF TAKES.
HERE'S WHAT I KNOW FOR A FACT.
WE NEED A LOT OF INFRASTRUCTURE WORK, WATER, MAIN WORK, UH, ROAD WORK.
UM, WE NEED A LOT OF, UH, GENERAL, UM, GENERAL WORK WITHIN THE CITY TO SERVICE OUR PEOPLE.
I KNOW THESE THINGS TO BE FACT.
UM, WHAT I DON'T KNOW ARE A LOT OF THESE OTHER THINGS, CUZ I'M GETTING A LOT OF IFS, MAYBES AND COULDS, POSSIBLES.
SO THIS IS ALL POSTULATION FOR THE MOST PART.
UM, SO FROM THAT STANDPOINT, BRIAN, I GOTTA SAY THAT AGAIN.
I, I GOTTA STAND BEHIND WHAT I KNOW TO BE FACT.
AND THAT IS THAT OUR, OUR CURRENT CITY AND OUR CURRENT POPULATION OF 43,000 NEED A LOT OF ATTENTION.
UM, AND WE ARE, WE ARE DIVERTING THAT ATTENTION TOWARDS OTHER OUTSIDE NEWER PROJECTS.
AND I'M JUST, RIGHT NOW, I CAN'T SUPPORT THAT UNTIL I SEE SOME SIGNIFICANT WORK UNDERWAY WITHIN THE CITY ON THESE OTHER THINGS.
HOW LONG HAVE WE BEEN TALKING ABOUT WATER? IN MY TENURE, SIR, UM, RELATIVELY RECENTLY THAT IT'S BUBBLED TO THE TOP OF, IT WAS ONE OF THE FIRST MEETINGS THAT IN MY CAPACITY, IN MY CAPACITY, IT WAS ONE OF THE VERY FIRST THINGS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT WHEN I ASSUMED THE ROLE OF INTERIM MANAGER.
AND I THINK THAT THAT WAS ONE OF THE VERY FIRST THINGS THAT WE COMMITTED TO DO, WAS TO, UH, PROVIDE FOR THE UTILITY INFRASTRUCTURE, UH, THE INFRASTRUCTURE PRESENTATION THAT YOU SAW TONIGHT.
AND THAT WOULD'VE BEEN IN NOVEMBER OF 21.
YOU KNOW, LIKE, AND, AND I UNDERSTAND EVERYBODY'S ISSUES.
I THINK SOME OF THE DISCUSSION ABOUT DIVERTING ATTENTION, THINGS LIKE THAT, I WOULD JUST SAY I THINK IS NOT GENUINE.
UM, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE, AND FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, WHEN YOU WERE ABSENT DURING THE MEETING WHERE COUNSEL AGREED TO FACTS, SO ON SEPTEMBER THE 6TH OF SEPTEMBER, THE 12TH OF 2022, IS WHEN THIS COUNCIL VOTED SEVEN TO ZERO WITH GLENN BEING ABSENT TO APPROVE THE CITY MANAGER ENTERING INTO A CONTRACT WITH FAIRBORNE TO TIE INTO THEIR WASTEWATER PLANT.
SO WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, IT'S NOT LIKE ANY OF YOU DIDN'T KNOW WE DIDN'T HAVE WATER ISSUES IN SEPTEMBER OF LAST YEAR.
THAT'S JUST NOT EVEN, THAT'S SIX MONTHS AGO.
SO NOW TO ALL OF A SUDDEN SAY, WE KNOW SO MUCH MORE ABOUT WATER, THAT WE'RE GONNA GO BACK AND NEGATE THE
[02:00:01]
CONTRACT THAT YOU ALL APPROVED FOR HIM TO ENTER INTO WITH FAIRBORNE IN THEIR WASTEWATER PLANT.THAT'S THAT SEWER LINE THAT NOW YOU HAVE A QUESTION WITH.
AND I THINK JUST AS MUCH AS YOUR OPINIONS, WHICH YOU'RE ENTITLED TO HAVE THEM, I THINK A LOT OF THE OTHER PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR THIS HAS THE SAME OPINION THAT WE'RE NOW BACKTRACKING ON AN AGREEMENT THAT YOU APPROVED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS WASTEWATER TYING IT INTO FAIRBORNE.
THAT AGREEMENT WAS MADE, THAT WAS LEGISLATION THAT WAS PASSED.
AND WITH THE EXCEPTION OF GLENN BEING ABSENT, ALL SEVEN OF THE OTHERS OF YOU VOTED YES.
AND THAT WAS JUST SIX MONTHS AGO.
IF YOU COULD MAKE ME AND EVERYBODY IN THIS COMMUNITY BELIEVE THAT YOU DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS HAPPENING WITH OUR WATER INFRASTRUCTURE OR, OR THE WATER PROBLEM THAT WE HAD, AND NOW THE MONEY THAT'S, THAT'S BEING DESIGNATED WITH THIS CAN'T EVEN BE USED FOR WATER TO NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, I WAS BEFORE IT, BEFORE I WAS AGAINST, IT JUST DOESN'T JIVE WITH ME AND WITH A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE, LOT OF NEW WATER INFORMATION.
SO, UM, AND IF WE COULD TAKE ALL THAT MONEY AND PUT IT INTO WATER, MIGHT NOT SAY, I WOULDN'T DISAGREE WITH YOU, BUT YOU'VE ALREADY PASSED THE LEGISLATION.
YOU'VE ALREADY MADE THE AGREEMENT, YOU'VE ALREADY DONE IT, AND NOW YOU DON'T.
AND NOW I AGREE THAT IF RICHARD, IF NONE OF THAT STUFF UP THERE HAPPENS OR DEVELOPMENT HAPPENS, I GET THAT'S ALL ONLY POSSIBILITIES.
BUT I'D ALSO SAY, BRIAN, WHAT'S THE POSSIBILITY OF DEVELOPMENT HAPPENING WITHOUT SEWER AND MOTOR COOK UPS? I WOULD SAY THAT IT'S NEXT TO NOTHING.
NEXT TO NOTHING NEXT TO NOTHING.
I MEAN, WE'VE, I MEAN YOU ASKED VERY POIGNANT QUESTION, RICHARD, ABOUT DO WE HAVE A DEAL LINKED NO, WE DON'T.
BUT DO WE HAVE PEOPLE INTERESTED IN BUILDING WITHIN THAT BLUE AREA? SURE.
AS RECENTLY AS 16 OR 17 DAYS AGO, WE SENT ADDITIONAL DUE DILIGENCE INFORMATION TO INTERESTED PARTIES.
ARE, IS THAT A GUARANTEE THAT THEY'RE GONNA BUILD? NO.
WELL, AND IS IS, IS ANY OF THESE CONTRACTS, ARE THEY GUARANTEES? NO, THEY'RE NOT.
BUT I WOULD POINT TO WHAT IS CENTER POINT 70? I MEAN, CENTER POINT 70 HOUSES SOME OF OUR LARGEST TAXPAYERS AND A FEW OF OUR LARGEST EMPLOYERS.
AS A MATTER OF FACT, OUR LARGEST TAXPAYER, OUR LARGEST EMPLOYER.
NOW, IT WAS BEFORE MY TIME, I WAS A WE BABE, WHEN CENTER POINT 70 WAS CREATED.
BUT CENTER POINT 70 WAS THE ACQUISITION AS IT'S BEEN EXPLAINED TO ME, WAS THE ACQUISITION OF A BUNCH OF, OF FARMLAND AND THE EXTENSION OF UTILITIES ON THE PRAYER.
AND I CAN TELL YOU NOW WHETHER OR NOT IT'S THIS AREA OF THE CITY OR ANOTHER AREA OF CITY THAT'S GREENFIELD, UNLESS THERE ARE UTILITIES THERE, YOU WOULD BE HARD PRESSED TO SEE DEVELOPMENT HAPPEN.
MAYOR, MAY I RESPOND? YEAH, I, I'LL JUST MAKE ONE MORE COMMENT.
I, I THINK THE GROWTH SIDE OF THIS IN THE DEVELOPMENT SIDE, ALTHOUGH EXCITING AND GLEN, BACK WHEN WE STARTED TALKING ABOUT THIS, YOU WERE THE BIG PROPONENT OF ALL THE JOBS THAT THIS COULD POSSIBLY BRING.
I THINK EVEN THOUGH THAT, THAT ISN'T GUARANTEED, THE OTHER ISSUE OF THIS IS YOU PASSED LEGISLATION, YOU AGREED TO DO THE WORK.
YOU, YOU AGREED TO ENTER INTO THE AGREEMENT WITH FAIRBORNE TO EXTEND THIS WASTEWATER DOWN ROUTE FOUR TO TIE INTO THEIR PLANT.
AND AND NOW YOU WANT TO UNDO THAT.
AND THE SPECIFIC MONEY BEING USED FOR THIS CAN'T BE USED FOR WATER.
SO I DON'T, SO I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE IDEA OF WE CAN'T CHEW GUM AND WALK AT THE SAME TIME.
THIS WHOLE IDEA OF FOCUS, WE'RE FOCUSING TOO MUCH ON THIS AND NOT ON EVERYTHING ELSE.
IF THE MONEY CAN'T BE USED FOR WATER, WHAT IS THE OTHER FOCUS? WE AREN'T THE ONES, STAFF HASN'T GOT THE ONES DIGGING THE HOLES IN THE GROUND TO LAY THE PIPE.
IT'S PEOPLE THAT WE'RE HIRING, UH, TO, TO SAY THAT WE CAN'T WALK AND CHEW GUM, FOCUS ON THE WATER ISSUES, SPEND WATER MONEY THAT'S AVAILABLE ON WATER PROJECTS AND SPEND SEWER MONEY THAT'S AVAILABLE ON SEWER PROJECTS, TO ME IS LUDICROUS.
ESPECIALLY AFTER WE'VE ALL AGREED, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF GLENN TO MOVE THAT A MASSIVE SEWER BILL COMING UP TO MOVE, TO MOVE THAT PROJECT FORWARD.
AND, BUT, BUT AGAIN, YES, A MASSIVE SEWER PROJECT COMING UP.
AND SO WHAT, YOU KNOW, I THINK WHAT'S FRUSTRATING IS WE HEAR, AND I'VE HEARD SO MUCH THAT WE HAVE TO FIND MONEY, WE HAVE TO, UH, DIG THE CUSHIONS.
THERE'S, WE KNOW ALL THIS EXCESS MONEY THAT'S
[02:05:01]
COMING UP, THAT'S COMING DUE.AND IF YOU, IF YOU GUYS AREN'T WILLING TO PASS THOSE COSTS ON TO THE RESIDENCE, YOU'VE GOTTA FIND THE MONEY SOMEWHERE.
AND IF YOU'RE ELIMINATING OR NOT APPROVING ANY OF THE PROJECTS OR THE WORK THAT COULD BRING IN NEW PAYING CUSTOMERS AND A NEW TAX BASE, THAT JUST SEEMS LIKE WE'RE ALL JUST RUNNING AROUND IN CIRCLES.
YOU'RE SPEAKING ON THIS HAND OF ALL THE REVENUE WE NEED.
BUT ON THIS HAND, YOU DENY EVERY PROJECT THAT CAN BRING IN POSSIBLE REVENUE.
I I I CANNOT BE THE ONLY ONE IN THIS CITY WHO THINKS THAT THAT DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE AT AMERICAN.
I DIDN'T MEAN TO TAKE THE FLOOR FROM YOU, MR. LY.
UM, BRIAN, WHEN IT COMES TO THE DEVELOPMENT, I, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT FROM MY SEAT, I HAVE SEEN THE INKED DEALS, THE SHOULDA WOULDA COULDAS THE GOOD SPORTS, THE Q Q E MM-HMM.
THE HEIGHTS 2.0, THE HEIGHTS 2.1.
I'VE SEEN THE DEVELOPMENT PIECES THAT'S COME IN FRONT OF THIS COUNCIL THAT COULD HAVE BEEN BILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND IT NEVER TOOK PLACE.
SO PLEASE UNDERSTAND MY HESITANCY WHEN I SAY SHOULD OR WOULD'VE COULD AND NOT INK, I SEE POSSIBILITIES ALL DAY LONG.
I, I, I MEAN, I WILL TELL YOU MYSELF AND COUNCILMAN CAMPBELL'S HAD GREAT DEAL OF CONVERSATIONS WHEN IT COMES TO POSSIBILITIES MM-HMM.
AND IN MY, AND IN MY 25 YEARS, SIR, I'VE SEEN IT TOO.
NOT ALWAYS HERE, BUT I'VE SEEN IT HERE.
BUT WHAT I CAN TELL YOU IS RIGHT, WRONG, OR INDIFFERENT, THIS CITY HAS TO SPEND MONEY TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM.
SO WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANT TO SUE TO WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANT TO SPEND THAT MONEY TO LITIGATE SO YOU CAN USE WHAT'S ALREADY YOURS WITH THE POTENTIAL OF HAVING TO SUE AGAIN IN THE FUTURE TO USE WHAT IS ALREADY YOURS.
SO THERE'S THAT EXPENSE AND YOU MIGHT GET THE PRIVILEGE OF HAVING TO LITIGATE AGAIN FOR THE SAME PRIVILEGE THAT'S ALREADY YOURS.
THE OTHER ALTERNATIVE IS YOU CAN COMMIT TO TERMS AND AGREEMENTS THAT ARE NOT AS FAVORABLE TO THE CITY IN THE LONG TERM BECAUSE THEY BENEFIT THE CITY IN THE SHORT TERM.
AND YOU'LL HAVE TO PAY, MOST LIKELY IT'S AN IF, BUT MOST LIKELY YOU'LL HAVE TO PAY AT SOME POINT IN TIME IN THE FUTURE FOR INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WILL ACTUALLY COST YOU MORE THAN THE REVENUE IT WILL GENERATE.
OR THIRD, YOU CAN GET SOMETHING FOR YOUR EXPENSE.
YOU'LL PHYSICALLY OWN THE PIPE.
YOU'LL PHYSICALLY HAVE AUTONOMY, YOU WILL HAVE CONTROL.
I WORK AT THE DIRECTION OF COUNSEL.
AND IF THE MAJORITY OF COUNSEL SAYS THAT WE'RE GONNA LITIGATE THIS, THEN LET'S GO IN THE BACK ROOM AND MR. ZURG WILL BE ABLE TO TELL US WHAT THE BEST OPTION IS.
COUNSEL WANTS TO ENTERTAIN THE AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE CITY AND CLARK COUNTY UNDER THE NEW TERMS OF THE JET.
WE'LL MAKE THE BEST GO OF IT THAT WE CAN.
MY ADVICE IS, MY JOB IS TO GIVE YOU THE BEST ADVICE I THINK I CAN GIVE YOU.
AND MY ADVICE IS YOU'RE GONNA SPEND MONEY ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
YOU MIGHT AS WELL GET SOMETHING FOR THE MONEY YOU'RE GONNA SPEND.
AND THAT'S WHY I'M MAKING THE RECOMMENDATION THAT I AM.
AND THAT'S WHY WE MADE THE RECOMMENDATION THAT WE DID.
AND SO IF YOUR POLICY DECISION NOW IS DON'T PUT THE PIPE IN THE GROUND, THAT'S FINE, THEN I NEED DIRECTION ON WHAT YOU DO WANT TO DO.
MAYOR, MAY I HAVE ONE OTHER FOLLOW UP AND THEN, AND I SHOULD BE DONE ON THIS TOPIC.
UM, AS, AS FAR AS OUR, OUR LEGAL COUNSEL GOES, HOW QUICKLY WOULD YOU BE ABLE TO REVIEW THE CURRENT JET AGREEMENT? UM, AND FROM WHAT IT APPEARS THE INTERIM CITY MANAGER HAS, UH, TOLD THIS COUNSEL, UH, THAT CERTAIN PARTIES ARE NOT LIVING UP TO THEIR PART OF THE AGREEMENT.
UM, WOULD YOU BE ABLE TO HAVE A, AN EXTENSIVE REPORT, UH, TO COUNSEL AN EXECUTIVE SESSION ON MONDAY? UH, PROBABLY MONDAY IS PROBABLY PUSHING IT BECAUSE I WOULD NEED A OF YOU TO FIGURE OUT WHETHER BE ME OR JERRY TAKING A LOOK AT THAT.
JERRY MAY HAVE SOME SORT OF ALREADY PRE UNDERSTANDING ON IT.
I'D BE STARTED FROM SCRATCH ON IT.
I'VE HEARD WHAT THE, UH, ACTING CITY MANAGER HAS PROVIDED TO US, UH, THAT WE OPEN THAT DOOR OF LITIGATION.
SO YEAH, YOU LITERALLY HAVE TO BE RIGHT AT OKAY,
SO, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S GONNA BE ME OR JERRY'S GONNA HANDLE THAT.
MOSTLY WHAT I'M HEARING IS THAT IF WE OPEN THE DOOR OF LITIGATION, IT'S GONNA CLOSE SOME OTHER DOORS.
AND, AND THAT'S WHAT I WOULD HAVE TO COUNSEL YOU ON.
NOT NECESSARILY THE WHAT DOOR CAN WE DO THROUGH LITIGATION.
I THINK WE KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT.
WHAT I'M HEARING, EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT CLARK COUNTY'S NOT, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY NEED TO DO, BUT DOES THAT CLOSE THE OTHER DOORS? THAT'S WHAT I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN GIVE YOU BY MONDAY.
AND MR. MCDONALD WAS INTIMATELY INVOLVED IN A GREAT DEAL OF THIS WORK AS IT RELATES TO ASSESSING, UM, THE RISK REWARD OF LITIGATION AND IN THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS THAT WERE BEING NEGOTIATED AS PART OF THE JET.
[02:10:01]
THERE IS ALREADY, UH, THAT ELEMENT.BUT, UM, MR. MCDONALD, I WILL SAY, I I I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR, UM, SOME OF THOSE FRESH OPTIONS OF LITIGATION.
UM, I MEAN WE'VE, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT OLD DOMINION, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT SECURING THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, LITIGATION COULD DEFINITELY DO THAT.
UM, AND I MEAN, WE HAVE OUR SENIOR MEMBER OF CITY STAFF THAT SAYS WE HAVE A CURRENT AGREEMENT THAT PREVIOUS COUNCIL AGREED TO THAT'S NOT BEING UPHELD TO.
UM, SO TO YOUR PREVIOUS COMMENTS ABOUT THIS COUNCIL PASSING PREVIOUS LEGISLATION WITH, UH, FAIRBORNE, UM, WE HAVE A MASTER, UH, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT THAT NOT ALL PARTIES ARE LIVING UP TO.
AND, UH, I THINK THIS COUNCIL OWES IT TO THE COMMUNITY TO, UH, TAKE ACTION ON THAT.
UM, BRIAN, UM, THE AMOUNT OF TIME AND EFFORT THAT YOU'VE PUT INTO THIS PRESENTATION TONIGHT, UH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
IT'S ALWAYS HEALTHY, UH, PLENTY OF TIME IN PREPARATION.
UM, I JUST WISH YOU WOULD'VE, UH, PUT A LITTLE BIT MORE OF THAT TIME AND EFFORT INTO PREPARATION TO FINDING THAT WATER MAIN REPLACEMENT, TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE CAN GET PIPING FASTER, UM, HOW WE CAN GET THAT PROJECT DONE SOONER.
UH, THERE'S GONNA BE TWO MORE ITEMS ON THE AGENDA DOWN HERE, AND WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT 42 FIREFIGHTERS.
I CERTAINLY HOPE YOU PUT TIME AND EFFORT INTO FINDING, UH, THOSE FIREFIGHTERS LIKE YOU DID ON THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT.
UH, MAYOR, WE HAD AN AGREEMENT LAST AUGUST ABOUT 42 FIREFIGHTERS, AND WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT THAT HERE SHORTLY.
BUT TO YOUR POINT, I THINK WE CAN WALK AND CHEW GUM AT THE SAME TIME.
PROBLEM IS WE'VE HAD TWO PROJECTS, FIREFIGHTERS AND WATER MAIN REPLACEMENT.
AND LIKE I SAID, LAST MEETING, I'LL SAY AGAIN, WE'RE, I'M NOT SEEING THE ATTENTION AND THE PRIORITIES BEING ON THOSE TWO PROJECTS.
AND CERTAINLY THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IS IMPORTANT, BUT IF WE'RE NOT TAKING CARE OF THE PROMISES THAT WE'VE ALREADY HAD AND WHAT WE'RE WORKING ON NOW, I THINK THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE HEARING TONIGHT FROM SEVERAL COUNCIL MEMBERS.
AND I UNDERSTAND THE FRUSTRATION.
I WOULD PUT IT ON THE WATER MAIN EAST PROJECT ON JUST A HOLDING PATTERN UNTIL WE GET SOME OF THESE OTHER PRIORITIES WORKED OUT.
AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT SO WE CAN MOVE FORWARD.
ED, I PROMISE YOU NO ONE WOULD LIKE TO SEE 42 FIREFIGHTERS HIRED MORE THAN ME.
THAT DOES NOT SEEM TO BE ACCURATE.
I BECAUSE BUT YOU CAN'T HIRE FIREFIGHTERS WHO AREN'T QUALIFIED TO BE FIREFIGHTERS.
NO, I NEVER SAID TO HIRE WHO'S NOT QUALIFIED.
I JUST SAID PUT EMPHASIS ON IT.
I MEAN, WE, WE, WE TALK ABOUT FIREFIGHTERS, AT LEAST YOU DO.
AND, AND LISTEN, WHEN I'M ALLOWED TALK ABOUT FIREFIGHTERS, FIREFIGHTERS EVERY TIME, ALMOST EVERY TIME THIS COUNCIL HAS A MEETING, THAT, THAT WE'RE TOGETHER AS A COUNCIL.
AND WE TALK A LOT WHEN WE DO ABOUT IT.
AND WE HAVE THE, WELL, I MEAN, AGAIN, I THREE TO FOUR MONTHS TO HIRE FIREFIGHTERS AND WE'RE ON, IF THE PAST MONTH SIX, ED, I'M, I'M NOT SURE.
I'M NOT SURE HOW YOU OR ANYONE ELSE THINKS WE CAN HIRE PEOPLE WHO AREN'T IN A POOL TO BE HIRED IF THE PEOPLE AREN'T THERE.
THE CHIEF GAVE A PRESENTATION THAT SAID BACK AFTER NINE 11 IN 2011, THERE WERE 115 PEOPLE IN THE POOL TO BE HIRED.
IF THE PEOPLE PHYSICALLY AREN'T THERE, IF KIDS AREN'T IN YOUR CLASSROOM, YOU CAN'T TEACH THEM.
IF FIREFIGHTER PARAMEDIC PEOPLE WHO ARE QUALIFIED TO BE HIRED AREN'T IN THE POOL TO BE HIRED, WE CAN'T HIRE THEM.
AND I'M NOT HEARING WHAT WE CAN DO TO IMPROVE THAT.
WELL, I I'M NOT HEARING ANY INITIATIVE.
I'M NOT HEARING ANY RECOMMENDATIONS.
I'M HEARING A LOT OF TALK AND WE DON'T EVEN HAVE AN END DATE.
AND WE'LL GET TO THE FIREFIGHTERS IN TWO ISSUES.
I REALLY DON'T WANT TALK ABOUT THAT DIRECTLY, BUT I'M JUST BRINGING THAT UP.
SO THERE'S JUST NOT AN EMPHASIS, THERE'S NOT A PRIORITY ON IT AND THERE HASN'T BEEN FOR QUITE A WHILE.
SO I'LL LET YOU THINK ABOUT THIS CUZ THE QUESTION I'M GONNA ASK YOU WHEN WE GET TO FIRE DIVISION STAFFING UPDATE, WHAT HAVE YOU PROPOSED OR WHAT IS YOUR SOLUTION TO GETTING MORE PEOPLE INTERESTED IN BECOMING FIREFIGHTERS? SO YOU HAVE A LITTLE BIT TO THINK ABOUT THAT CUZ I, I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE ANSWER TO THAT IS.
IF PEOPLE AREN'T INTERESTED IN BEING FIREFIGHTERS, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO SCHOOL TO BE FIREFIGHTERS AND THEY'RE NOT COMPLETING THE TESTING TO BE FIREFIGHTERS.
AND IF THEY'RE NOT IN THE POOL THAT WE'RE ALLOWED TO HIRE, THEN I'M NOT SURE.
AND WE'RE COMPETING FOR THOSE FIREFIGHTERS FROM ALL THE OTHER COMMUNITIES WHO ARE TRYING TO HIRE FIREFIGHTERS.
[02:15:01]
WE'LL, WE'LL, WE'LL GET TO THAT QUESTION.WE'LL GET THAT QUESTION WHEN WE GET THERE.
MARK, WERE YOU FIRST, GO AHEAD, UH, BRIAN, A FEW QUESTIONS.
MY EFFORT IS TO REACH A COMPROMISE.
IT'S THE ONLY REASON I'M TALKING DATE OF THE JED.
WHEN IS IT? UH, I BELIEVE IT ENDS AT THE END OF NO, NO, NO.
THE ORIGINAL DATE WHEN WE ENTERED INTO A JED WITH CLARK COUNTY.
WHEN DID IT START? UH, THE ORIGINAL JED BEGAN ON JANUARY, WENT INTO EFFECT JANUARY 22ND, 2001.
AND WHAT HAPPENED THAT WE UNCOVERED THAT CLARK COUNTY ISN'T A VERY GOOD PARTNER.
AND THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE WHEN OLD DOMINION ORIGINALLY CAME FORWARD, UH, AND THIS WAS WHEN MR. FALKOWSKI WAS HERE.
SO, UH, I'M A LITTLE VAGUE ON THE DATES, BUT PRIOR TO THAT'S OLD DOMINION, BUT OLD DOMINION CAME FORWARD, BUT THAT'S REALLY THE ONLY ANSWER I NEED TONIGHT.
OLD DOMINION WAS ORIGINALLY GOING TO RELOCATE.
OLD DOMINION WAS ORIGINALLY GOING TO LOCATE BACK HERE, WOULD'VE TRIGGERED THE JED GIVING BENEFIT TO CLARK COUNTY.
THAT WAS THEIR ORIGINAL PROPOSAL.
CLARK OLD DOMINION THEN CHANGED THEIR MIND AND DECIDED TO MOVE HERE WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS OUTSIDE OF THE JED BECAUSE THAT SAVED THEM DEVELOPMENT COSTS.
AND THAT IS WHAT TRIGGERED THE BEHAVIOR FROM CLARK COUNTY THAT WE'VE BEEN DEALING WITH SINCE 2000.
AND, AND WHAT OTHER PROJECTS DID WE APPRECIATE IN THE JED SINCE 2001 WITH CLARK COUNTY? NONE.
NEXT, UH, TOTAL COST OF THIS PROJECT THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED TONIGHT.
TOTAL COST 4 MILLION IN CHANGE HARPA MONEY.
DID I, DID I SAY THAT RIGHT? ARPA MONEY, SIR.
HARPA H HOW MUCH IS THAT UP TO 4 MILLION.
SO THE, WELL, THE ARPA, WE RECEIVED 4 MILLION IN ARPA MONEY AND THAT'S ALL BEEN DEDICATED TO WATER? NO ARPA MONEY IS GOING TO PUT IN THIS SEWER PROJECT.
SO WHERE ARE WE GETTING THE 4 MILLION TO DO THIS PROJECT? IT'S COMING OUT OF THE EXISTING SANITARY SEWER FUND BALANCE OF, I BELIEVE IT'S APPROXIMATELY 10 MILLION.
OKAY, SO IT'S A TOTAL OF 4 MILLION.
AND YOU'VE DONE A REALLY NICE JOB TELLING US WHAT THE FUTURE COULD LOOK LIKE IF WE INVESTED THIS MONEY, HOW MUCH HAVE WE SPENT TO DATE ON THIS PROJECT? IT'D BE CLOSE TO HALF A MILLION DOLLARS.
THERE WAS, UM, EXCUSE ME, DOC 400,000, EXCUSE ME, JUST R ROUGH NUMBERS ARE GOOD ENOUGH.
FOR ME IT'S, UM, UH, AND ROUND NUMBERS.
IT'S $400,000 FOR ENGINEERING AND ANOTHER APPROXIMATELY $125,000 IN RIGHT OF WAY ACQUISITIONS AND EASEMENT ACQUISITIONS.
SO WE'VE SPENT $500,000, WE'VE HAD COUNCIL LEGISLATION THAT'S BEEN PASSED THAT'S SPENT ALL THIS MONEY.
IF WE STOP AND WE DON'T MOVE FORWARD, WHAT DO WE DO WITH THE PRODUCT THAT WE PURCHASED FOR $500,000 OR SERVICES, PRODUCT, WHATEVER IT IS.
SO THE EASEMENTS AND THE, UH, RIGHT OF WAY WILL CONTINUE TO, TO OWN AND THEN THE PLANS THEMSELVES WILL SIT ON THE SHELF UNTIL COUNCIL DECIDES THIS IS INAPPROPRIATE PROJECT.
AND HOW MUCH DID WE SPEND ON THE EASEMENTS AND SUCH OF THAT? 500,000? UH, ABOUT 1 25.
SO 375,000 IS GONNA, WE'RE GONNA PUT IT ON THE SHELF.
SO YOU'VE DONE A REALLY GREAT JOB IN YOUR PRESENTATION.
THE ONE THING THAT I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE PRESENTED, NOT TONIGHT, BUT GET ALL YOUR FACTS TOGETHER, IS A COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS.
WE'VE SPENT 500 OF THAT ALREADY.
AND I'D LIKE TO SEE A COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS NOT ON THE COME.
I'D LIKE TO SEE A COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS BASED ON WE'RE GONNA HAVE NEW WATER CUSTOMERS AND A PORTION OF WHAT THEY PAY IS GONNA BE PROFIT.
YOU'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO CREATE PROBABLY A CRA OR A TIFF WITH OLD DOMINION.
UH, WE ARE, WE ARE HOPEFUL TO DO
[02:20:01]
SO.THIS IS A COMPLICATED SITUATION, BUT WE'RE HOPEFUL TO DO SO.
AND HOW LONG WOULD IT TAKE TO ESTABLISH ONE OR THE OTHER? THE CRA DISTRICT, UH, WOULD BE THE CRA OVERLAY WOULD BE RELATIVELY, UM, EASY TO DO.
THAT'S SOMETHING THAT COUNCIL COULD DO LEGISLATIVELY WITHIN, UH, A FEW WEEKS OF TODAY.
UH, THE APPLICABILITY WILL NEED TO HAVE SOME ADDITIONAL CONVERSATIONS WITH THE, UM, UH, THE LAW DIRECTOR.
UH, CURRENTLY THE, UH, FACILITY IS OPERATING ON A, UH, TEMPORARY CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY.
AND SO THEY MAY, AT THIS POINT OF TIME HAVE ALREADY PAID PROPERTY TAX, WHICH WOULD COMPLICATE OUR ABILITY TO GARNER THE BENEFIT OF THE CRA.
BUT WE'D HAVE HAVE SOME CONVERSATIONS, BUT WE COULD POTENTIALLY, YES, SIR.
SO WHY DON'T YOU PUT TOGETHER A COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS AND LET'S SEE, HOW MUCH OF THE 4 MILLION COULD BE COVERED IN INCREASED REVENUE TO THE CITY? SIR, HOW SOON COULD YOU DO THAT? UM, WELL, WE'LL, WE'LL DO OUR BEST TO GET IT DONE AS QUICKLY AS WE CAN.
I'M, I'D BE INTERESTED IN SEEING THAT COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS.
UM, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THAT DISTURBS ME ABOUT THIS CONVERSATION IS, UM, IS COMMITMENTS.
AND TO ME, COMMITMENTS ARE SIGNAL INTEGRITY.
UM, WE ARE, WE ARE, IT, IT'S BEING SAID HERE WHERE WE ARE NOT ADDRESSING, UH, OUR COMMITMENTS TO OUR, UM, RESIDENTS AS FAR AS THE WATER IS CONCERNED.
AND I THINK ESPECIALLY WITH THE, UH, ES AND NIELS PRESENTATION TONIGHT, ALL THE DISCUSSIONS THAT WE'VE HAD, ALL THE EXTRA MONEY THAT WE'VE PUT TOWARD FIXING OUR WATER MAINS, UM, WE ARE ADDRESSING, UM, OUR CUSTOMER COMMITMENT.
UM, WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THE, UH, THE INABILITY TO STORE PIPES.
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, UH, LEAD TIMES.
UM, I, I THINK FROM THAT RESPECT, WE ARE DOING A LOT, UH, TO ADDRESS, UM, THE RESIDENT'S CONCERN.
THERE'S ONLY SO MUCH THAT WE CAN BUMP UP AND MAKE HAPPEN FASTER.
WE ALSO MADE A COMMITMENT TO OLD DOMINION WHEN WE'VE INVITED THEM IN.
WE TOLD THEM THAT, UH, THAT WHILE THEY WERE ON A WELL, WE WOULD GET WATER TO THEM.
WE MADE A MI A COMMITMENT IN PA IN FACT, WE PASSED LEGISLATION TO USE OUR ARPA FUNDS TO EXTEND OUR SEWER LINE TO, UH, FAIRBORNE.
AND NOW WE'RE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOT LIVING UP TO THAT COMMITMENT.
I PERSONALLY DON'T WANNA BE HELD HOSTAGE BY CLARK COUNTY THROUGH THAT JET OR FACE A POTENTIAL 6.8 MILLION BILL WHEN THAT MONEY COULD BE USED FOR OUR RESIDENTS TO IMPROVE OUR INFRASTRUCTURE OR DO OTHER THINGS TO IMPROVE OUR CITY.
UH, THIS CONVERSATION IS VERY DISTURBING.
UH, THAT, THAT WE'RE MOVING FORWARD AND NOW WE'RE MOVING BACKWARDS, OR THE DISCUSSION IS MOVING BACKWARDS.
UM, I HOPE THAT, UM, ANY RESIDENTS, THIS LISTENING WILL FEEL A LITTLE BIT OF, UM, DISAPPOINTMENT ABOUT THE, UH, LACK OF COMMITMENT THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT TONIGHT.
AND, UM, I HOPE THAT, UH, SMARTER MINDS WILL PREVAIL IN THE FUTURE.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMENTS? OKAY.
SO BRIAN, I THINK, UM, AT LEAST FROM THIS POINT, UH, THERE'S SOME INFORMATION THAT, UH, WE'VE BEEN ASKED BY COUNCILMAN HAW FROM THE LAW DIRECTOR, UH, AND FROM MARK IN TERMS OF, UH, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT SOME, SOME REVENUE, THE COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS.
YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT DOES, WHAT DOES THIS ACTUALLY DO? THE REVENUE IT GENERATES, WHO THAT REVENUE COMES FROM AND FOR WHAT PRODUCT, WHETHER IT'S SEWER, CUSTOMER, WATER, CUSTOMER, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE WHEN THIS IS COMPLETED AND BUILT? NOT WITH, WITHOUT, WITH NOT STANDING ANY FUTURE GROWTH, FUTURE DEVELOPMENT, JUST WHAT IS CURRENTLY THERE AND WHAT WILL BECOME NEW WATER CUSTOMERS TO CENTER POINT 70 THAT STOPS PAYING CLARK COUNTY AND STARTS PAYING HE RIGHTS.
SO WE GET TO THE NEXT WORK SESSION.
[ County Assessments Removals]
NEXT UP IS THE COUNTY ASSESSMENT REMOVALS.[02:25:01]
ON THIS PARTICULAR MATTER, THERE IS A PROPERTY OWNER WHO PURCHASED, UH, GOSH, I CAN'T REMEMBER THE ADDRESS, UH, PURCHASED PROPERTY.I'M GONNA, IS IT CLAYBURN? UM, I PURCHASED THE PROPERTY.
IT WAS A DILAPIDATED PROPERTY.
THEY HAD COME TO THE CITY, UH, AND ASKED WHETHER OR NOT THERE WERE ANY OUTSTANDING ASSESSMENTS OR FEES OR FINES ASSIGNED TO THE PROPERTY BECAUSE OF, UH, THEIR INTENT TO ACQUIRE THE PROPERTY, REHABILITATE IT, AND PUT IT BACK ON THE MARKET.
UH, AT THAT TIME, UH, BASED ON THEIR INQUIRY, WE HAD TOLD THE INDIVIDUAL NO, THERE WAS NOT, UH, UNBEKNOWNST TO THE FINANCE DIVISION, UH, THE CODE ENFORCEMENT DIVISION HAD ACTUALLY ORDERED ABATEMENT WORK ON THE PROPERTY.
THOSE BILLS CAME IN, THEY WENT UNPAID, AND THEN WE PASSED THAT INFORMATION ONTO THE COUNTY TO BE ASSESSED TO THE PROPERTY.
NEEDLESS TO SAY, THE NEW OWNER WAS SOMEWHAT DISENFRANCHISED BY THE FACT THAT THEY DID WHAT THEY THOUGHT WAS APPROPRIATE BY COMING TO THE CITY TO VALIDATE, TO VERIFY, UH, WHAT THOSE EXPENSES ARE.
SO BASED ON THE SITUATION AS IT UNFOLDED, IT'S THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE FINANCE, UH, DIRECTOR.
UH, AND I CONCUR WITH HIS RECOMMENDATION THAT COUNSEL, UM, MOVED TO, UH, EFFECTIVELY WAIVE THE ASSESSMENTS FOR THIS PROPERTY AS THE, UH, AS THE CURRENT OWNER DID EVERYTHING THAT THEY COULD IN ADVANCE OF THE ASSESSMENTS TO COME TO THE CITY AND MAKE SURE THAT, UH, ALL WAS RIGHT AT THAT LOCATION.
SO WE WOULD ASK THAT COUNCIL DOPP LEGISLATION ON MONDAY, UH, TO, UH, WAIVE THE ASSESSMENTS THAT ARE ASSIGNED TO THE PROPERTY IN QUESTION.
UM, BRIAN, BY WAIVING THESE ASSESSMENTS, UH, THERE'S NOT GONNA BE ANY PENALTIES OR INTEREST ASSESSED, UH, FROM THE COUNTY TO THE PROPERTY OWNER BEHIND THE SCENES AFTER THE CITY'S DONE TO THE BEST OF OUR KNOWLEDGE, NO, THAT'S NOT THE CASE.
AND WE'VE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH THE AUDITOR'S OFFICE ABOUT THAT.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? OBJECTION.
[ Fire Division Staffing Update]
NEXT UP IS ITEM THREE G, FIRE DIVISION STAFFING UPDATE.INCLUDED IN THE PACKET IS THE UP-TO-DATE CHART FROM THE HUMAN RESOURCES DEPARTMENT.
UH, THERE IS, UH, ONE ADDITIONAL ITEM OF NOTE, UH, AND OF COURSE NOW I'VE PUSHED MY NOTES IN WITH THE REST OF ALL OF THIS STUFF.
SO ME, LET'S SEE IF I GOT HERE.
IT IS, UH, HERE WE'RE, UM, I BELIEVE THE CHART INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKET WAS DATED THE 16TH.
UM, ON THE 17TH, UH, THE CITY DID RECEIVE, UH, NOTICE THAT I BELIEVE IT IS THE PHYSICAL OF CANDIDATE 11 WAS, UH, TURNED INTO THE CITY AND THAT, UH, CANDIDATE 11 WAS ABLE TO SUCCESSFULLY PASS THEIR PHYSICAL.
SO THAT IS THE ONLY OTHER UPDATE THAT WE HAVE TO THE, UH, HIRING STATUS CHART.
HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS THAT COUNCIL MAY HAVE.
SO ONCE, SO NOW THAT THAT CANDIDATE NUMBER 11 IS PASSED THE PHYSICAL, EVERYTHING ELSE IS GOOD.
SO THAT CURRENT BRINGS OUR CURRENT TOTAL TO 40.
IS THAT CORRECT? UH, THAT IS CORRECT.
THIS INDIVIDUAL ALREADY HAS A CONDITIONAL OFFER AND THAT WOULD BRING US TO 40? YES.
ANY QUESTIONS, ED? YES, BRIAN? UM, THE LAST MEETING, UM, WE TALKED ABOUT FIREFIGHTERS, BUT WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT WHEN WE CAN EXPECT, UM, TO HIT THAT NUMBER 42.
UM, THERE WAS DISCUSSION ABOUT STARTING A NEW LIST.
SO WHEN CAN I EXPECT TO HIT NUMBER 42? CAN'T ANSWER THAT QUESTION WITH ANY ACCURACY, SIR BRIAN.
ARE, ARE YOU AND STAFF AND THE CHIEF DOING EVERYTHING THAT YOU KNOW HOW TO DO SHORT OF LOWERING THE STANDARD OF WHAT WE WOULD PREFER A FIREFIGHTER HAVE TO COME WORK FOR THE CITY OF HEBREW HEIGHTS? YES.
IS THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU ARE NOT DOING? IS THERE ANY RESOURCE THAT YOU DON'T HAVE THAT THIS COUNCIL COULD PROVIDE TO YOU TO HIRE THE REMAINING TWO FIREFIGHTERS ANY FASTER THAN YOU'RE CURRENTLY WORKING ON? NO.
WE CANNOT CONTROL THINGS SUCH AS WHEN A FIREFIGHTER MAY CHOOSE TO RETIRE.
WE CANNOT CONTROL WHEN A FIREFIGHTER MAY CHOOSE TO LEAVE FOR ANOTHER POSITION.
WE CANNOT CONTROL WHEN A CANDIDATE WILL OR WILL NOT COMPLETE THEIR BACKGROUND PACKET.
SO WE CAN PERFORM THAT BACKGROUND.
WE CANNOT PROVIDE ANY CONTROL OVER A CANDIDATE'S PAST HISTORY, WHICH MAY REQUIRE THEIR, UH, BACKGROUND PACKET TO TAKE LONGER THAN ANOTHER.
WE CANNOT CONTROL, UM, WHAT A DR. MAY FIND WITH RESPECT TO THEIR PHYSICAL.
WE CANNOT CONTROL WHEN THE DOCTOR CAN SCHEDULE THE CANDIDATE FOR THE PHYSICAL.
THOSE ARE ALL THINGS THAT ARE OUTSIDE OF OUR CONTROL.
WE CAN'T CONTROL WHEN A CANDIDATE WILL EVEN RETURN A PACKET IF WE'VE CALLED THEM AND ASKED THEM AND NOTIFIED THEM THAT THEY'RE THE NEXT PERSON ON THE LIST.
THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT ARE INHIBITING
[02:30:01]
OUR ABILITY TO GET TO 42.IT'S NOT THAT WE'RE NOT TRYING, IT'S NOT THAT WE DON'T CARE.
IT'S NOT THAT THIS ISN'T THE HIGHEST PRIORITY, UH, FOR THE HUMAN RESOURCES DIRECTOR.
IT IS THAT WE CANNOT CONTROL A MULTITUDE OF FACTORS WHICH GO INTO THE PROCESS OF GETTING TO 42 STAFFED FIREFIGHTERS.
SO, SO ED, I KNOW AT THE, AT THE LAST, AND I HOPE YOU, I'M TRYING TO WORK WITH YOU ON THIS.
YOU MAY NOT BELIEVE THAT, BUT I AM.
AND I, I HAVE A SUGGESTION AND WE'LL, AND WE'LL SEE HOW THIS PLAYS OUT.
SO YOU HAD SAID AT THE LAST, AT THE COUNCIL MEETING THAT ONCE, OR YOU FELT THAT WE WERE DOING WHAT WE COULD DO TO GET FIREFIGHTERS THAT YOU HAD, YOU HAD SUPPORTED THIS EAST MAIN PROJECT IN THE SEWER PROJECT FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS AND YOU LOOKED FORWARD TO BEING ABLE TO GET BACK AND SUPPORT CONTINUING THE BUSINESS OF THE CITY.
SO, SO IS THERE A COMPROMISE HERE? AND MY QUESTION IS, BECAUSE I, I'M, I'M GONNA THROW THIS OUT HERE.
I THINK, CUZ I THINK ED, WHAT THE BIGGER PROBLEM IS HERE IS THAT WHEN WE GET TO 42, HOW LONG CAN WE MAINTAIN 42? RIGHT? SO TO AVOID THE ISSUE OF 42 FIREFIGHTERS BEING A PROBLEM, WE'RE NOT BEING, BECAUSE AS, AS BRIAN SAID, WE MAY GET TO 42 AND THEN WE HAVE TWO PEOPLE PUT IN THEIR RETIREMENT AND THEN THEY'RE DONE.
NOW WE'RE, NOW WE'RE AT 40 AGAIN.
SO I DON'T KNOW THAT THE PROBLEM IS GETTING TO 42 EVEN THOUGH THAT'S SLOWER THAN, THAN, THAN YOU AGREE.
AND I DO AGREE THAT, THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO GET TO 42, BUT WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO CHANGE THE STAFFING LEVEL? WHAT ABOUT THIS COMPROMISE? S WHAT IF WE CHANGED THE STAFFING LEVEL TO 44 OR 45 FIREFIGHTERS? SO WE WOULD HAVE THE ABILITY, CUZ NOW THIS IS JUST MATH, HAVE THE ABILITY TO HIRE MORE THAN 42.
SO WHEN WE GET TO THAT LEVEL, IF WE HAD PEOPLE RETIRE AND QUIT OR LEAVE OR FOR WHATEVER OTHER REASON WE, WE FOUND THE ISSUE TO BE KEEPING 42.
SO I'M JUST, I'M JUST GONNA ASK YOU IS THE, IS THE ISSUE, BECAUSE I THINK THE ISSUE IS MAINTAINING 42, NOT GETTING TO 42.
IF WE HIRE TWO MORE PEOPLE, WE'RE AT 42.
BUT THEN AS SOON AS TWO PEOPLE RETIRE, WE'RE BACK TO 40 AND THEN YOU'RE FRUSTRATED AGAIN.
SO WHAT ABOUT THE COMPROMISE OF CHANGING OUR ORG CHART AND ADDING THE EXTRA FIREFIGHTERS IN THE ORG CHART THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO HIRE MORE SO WE CAN MAINTAIN THE AVERAGE OF 42? CUZ THAT'S REALLY WHAT YOU'RE WANTING, RIGHT? AN AVERAGE OF 42 FIREFIGHTERS ON THE PAYROLL.
THAT'S THE NUMBER WE AGREED TO.
OH, I MEAN, BUT YOU ADVOCATED FOR THAT, RIGHT? I MEAN, LET'S, WELL YES, COUNCIL, COUNCIL APPROVED THAT ON THAT.
SO I THINK, BRIAN, WHEN I THINK ABOUT THIS, MY FRUSTRATION IS GOING TO BE THE SAME THING.
WE GET TO 42 AND IS THAT SOMETHING WE CAN GO RING THE BELL AND SAY, HEY, WE'RE AT 42 AND THEN ONLY TO FIND NEXT MONTH, TWO PEOPLE RETIRED AND NOW WE'RE, NOW WE'RE AT 40 AGAIN.
I MEAN, I WOULD FIND THAT TO BE A PROBLEM.
WOULD YOU? NO, I, I MEAN THAT'S JUST NATURAL, UM, MANAGEMENT.
THAT'S NATURAL HUMAN RESOURCES EDITION.
I'M NOT ASKING FOR THE MOON AND WELL I, BUT DO YOU WANNA MAINTAIN, AND THE COMPROMISE YOU MENTIONED, UH, MAYOR, UH, YOU KNOW, FIRST LET'S TALK ABOUT, THERE WAS AN AGREEMENT LAST AUGUST IN THE LAST SUMMER.
THAT'S ALL I'VE BEEN ASKING FOR.
IF WE'RE HAVING TROUBLE HITTING 42, THEN, YOU KNOW, BUMP IT UP A COUPLE NUMBERS AND IF WE FALL SHORT, WE'RE STILL HITTING 42.
BUT IT'S TAKEN SIX MONTHS TO HAVE THIS KIND OF CONVERSATION AND YOU'RE NOT A FIREFIGHTER AND I'M NOT, UH, MAKING A DEROGATORY COMMENT TO YOU.
I'M NOT A FIREFIGHTER, BUT I'VE BEEN ON THE DIAS 12 YEARS AND I HAVEN'T HAD THIS KIND OF PROBLEM OUTTA STAFF BEFORE.
THERE'S NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM.
NOW I UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING SAID, AND BRIAN KNOWS THAT I HAVE A GOOD DEAL OF RESPECT FOR HIM.
CHIEF KNIK, RUSS, KATIE, THEY ALL DO.
BUT OUR STAFF, WE DIRECT THEM TO HIT THAT NUMBER.
WE HAVE MONEY IN THE BUDGET AND IT'S BEEN PLENTY OF TIME.
IF OUR STAFF CAN'T HIT THAT NUMBER, THEN WE NEED TO START LOOKING AT UNFORTUNATELY FINDING NEW STAFF MEMBERS THAT CAN'T HIT THAT NUMBER.
I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS THAT OUR STAFF IS QUALITY AND TALENT ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT.
WE JUST NEED TO GIVE THEM THAT DIRECTION AND THE FOCUS AND THAT FOCUS HAS NOT BEEN THERE BECAUSE WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION SIX MONTHS AFTER WE HAD THAT AGREEMENT.
THAT'S THE POINT I'M MAKING NOW.
HOWEVER YOU WANT TO GET THERE, I'M GREAT WITH THAT.
IF YOU WANT TO BUMP IT UP TO 45, YOU WANT TO FUND THEM.
HERE'S THE THING, IF WE HIRE, UH, WE GET A LIST AND WE GO 45 AND WE HIT 42, THE CHIEF KNIK WANTS TO HIRE THREE MORE
[02:35:01]
NEXT YEAR.I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S GONNA BE SOMETHING COUNCIL'S GONNA AGREE WITH, BUT WE CAN HOLD THOSE THREE OVER FOR NEXT YEAR OR WE CAN HIRE 'EM NOW AT YOUR RECOMMENDATION.
HEY, YOU'RE, YOU'RE PREACHING THE CHOIR, YOU WANT TO GO 45? I'LL GO 45.
I, I'M, I'M TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH THE DISCUSSION THAT THAT GETS YOU BACK TO WHAT YOU SAID YOU WANTED TO DO.
AND I WAS CONCERNED GET BACK TO THE BUSINESS, TO THE BUSINESS OF THE CITY.
AND I'M NOT SEEING THAT ON FIREFIGHTERS.
I'M NOT SEEING THAT ON WATER MAIN PROJECT.
OKAY, SO WELL, I THINK SO I THINK WE CAN HAVE, WE CAN, WE'RE JUST GONNA HAVE TO AGREE TO DISAGREE ABOUT THE WATER MAIN PROJECT BECAUSE WE'VE PUT THE MONEY IN IT, WE'VE BUDGETED THE MONEY, WE'VE ALLOCATED THE MONEY, AND I THINK WE ARE ENGINEERING IT AND WE'RE ORDERING THE PIPE AS FAST AS WHAT OUR STAFF CAN DO.
BUT ED, I I I MEAN, I GOTTA BE HONEST, IF YOU, IF I JUST, I DON'T BELIEVE FOR A MINUTE THAT IF WE HIRED 42 FIREFIGHTERS AND WITHIN TWO MONTHS, TWO OF 'EM OR THREE OF 'EM RETIRED OR RESIGNED OR WENT SOMEPLACE ELSE OR, OR GOT FIRED FOR WHATEVER AND, AND WE'RE BACK AT 39, THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN YOUR PLIGHT OF HIRING 42 FIREFIGHTERS IS JUST GONNA SUDDENLY GO AWAY.
ARE WE GONNA REPLACE 'EM? WELL, I MEAN, I MEAN IT'S, IT'S, WE LOSE, IT'S PROVING.
WELL, OF COURSE, BUT, BUT THAT, SO 42 IS A MYTHICAL NUMBER.
IT'S JUST THE NUMBER THAT WE'VE AGREED TO THAT, THAT YOU ARE, THAT YOU ARE AIMING FOR AND I THINK WE'RE ALL AIMING FOR AND WE'VE, WE'VE HEARD FROM STAFF AND WE'VE, SO UNLESS YOU THINK THAT CHIEF NISLEY AND BRIAN IS JUST LYING ABOUT THE CANDIDATE POOL, WELL THEN THAT'S ANOTHER DISCUSSION THAT WE PROBABLY NEED TO HAVE PROBABLY IN AN EXECUTIVE SESSION.
BUT IF YOU THINK THAT THEY'RE DOING WHAT THEY CAN DO TO HIRE PEOPLE BASED ON THE POOL THAT WE HAVE, BASED ON THE MONEY THAT WE PAY IN OUR ORG CHART AND OUR PAY SCALE OF WHAT A NEW FIREFIGHTER EARNS WHEN THEY COME HERE, I WAS, WE HAD A, UM, A YEAR AGO AT THE HIGH SCHOOL, THE CHIEF, UH, LIEUTENANT RUSSELL, THEY, THEY WERE ALL THERE AT A CAREER FAIR.
SO IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DOING THOSE THINGS, I WAS AT THAT CAREER FAIR WHERE THE FIRE DEPARTMENT WAS TRYING TO GET INTEREST IN STUDENTS COMING INTO THE FIRE FIELD, INTO THE FIREFIGHTING FIELD, IN THE PARAMEDIC FIELD.
SO I'VE SEEN SOME WORK HAPPENING, I'VE SEEN PEOPLE TRYING, BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS, IS THIS POOL IS NOT AS BIG AS IT USED TO BE.
NOW IF 42, IF YOU, IF YOU TELL ME THAT 42 IS A NUMBER YOU'D LIKE TO MAINTAIN THAT GETTING TO 42 AND THEN GOING BACK TO 39, YOU'RE OKAY WITH, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT BECAUSE THE NUMBER OF 42 HAS BEEN THAT IMPORTANT TO YOU FOR THIS, FOR THIS LONG.
WHAT I'M TRYING TO SUGGEST IS A COMPROMISE TO CHANGE THE ORG CHART TO ALLOW US TO, IF THE GOAL IS TO MAINTAIN 42, TO HIRE 45 BECAUSE WE DO KNOW WE HAVE THE EBB AND FLOW OF PEOPLE WHO LEAVE AND RETIRE AND, AND, AND FOR WHATEVER OTHER REASON, I THINK IN MY MIND THE GOAL OF HAVING 42 FIREFIGHTERS AND INCREASING THAT THREE TO GET TO 42, THE GOAL WAS TO HAVE 42, NOT TO HAVE 39 NOT TO HAVE 40 NOT TO HAVE 41.
IF THE GOAL IS TO HAVE 42, I THINK WE HAVE TO HAVE THE FLEXIBILITY TO HIRE MORE THAN 42 TO KEEP 42.
AND THAT'S WHAT I'M SUGGESTING.
IF WE CHANGE THE ORG CHARGE, THIS COUNCIL WOULD AGREE TO CHANGE THE ORG CHART SO WE CAN HIRE MORE FIREFIGHTERS TO MAINTAIN 42.
THEN IS THAT A COMPROMISE THAT WORKS WITH YOU WHERE YOU WILL START VOTING TO GET BACK TO THE BUSINESS OF THE CITY? THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING.
I WILL START VOTING TO GET BACK TO THE BUSINESS CITY WHEN THE AGREEMENT WE HAD HIT 42, NOW YOU WANT TO GO 45 WHEN WE HIT 42? I'M GOOD.
YOU'RE ASKING ME TO MOVE THE ORG CHART TO 45 WHEN WE CAN'T HIRE APPARENTLY 42 FIREFIGHTERS AND SO YOU GET MY VOTE ON MONDAY THEN THE ANSWER IS NO, WE NOT STILL WORKING OFF THE ORIGINAL AGREEMENT.
WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT VOTING ON MONDAY FIREFIGHTERS.
SO I'M JUST GONNA ASK YOU POINT BLANK BECAUSE THEN IF IT IS, IF YOUR ANSWER TO THIS, DEPENDING ON OUR ANSWER, I'M GONNA RECOMMEND THAT WE GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSIONS.
DO YOU BELIEVE THAT BRIAN TARKOWSKI, THE INTERIM CITY MANAGER AND OUR FIRE CHIEF KEITH KNIK ARE NOT DOING WHAT EVERYTHING THEY CAN DO TO HIRE FIREFIGHTERS? I KNOW THEY'RE, BECAUSE OKAY, TAKES, TAKES THREE TO FOUR MONTHS TO HIRE FIREFIGHTER AND WE'RE ON MONTH, WE'LL PASS MONTH SIX.
SO IT'S NOT WHOSE FAULT STAFFS.
WELL I THOUGHT YOU WERE JUST BLAMING STAFF.
NO, WHY WOULD I BLAME STAFF JUST DOING WHAT THEY WERE TOLD TO DO? I, SO MY QUESTION WAS DO YOU BELIEVE THAT BRIAN AND AND CHIEF KNIK ARE DOING EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO HIRE FIREFIGHTERS? AND I SAID NO AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE AND YOU SAID NO, BUT THEN YOU SAID YOU'RE, IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT.
REMEMBER THE HUBER HEIGHTS TWO STEP? I HAVEN'T SAID ABOUT IT BUT WELL, IT COMES BACK HERE.
SO HERE, SO I WOULD, WE'RE NOT MOTIVATED TO DO IT.
SO I WOULD MAKE A RECOMMENDATION.
WE GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION SO WE CAN DISCUSS THE NON-PERFORMANCE OF BRIAN KOWSKI AND OUR FIRE CHIEF BASED ON THE STAFFING LEVELS OF OUR FIRE DEPARTMENT.
CUZ WE HAVE AN COUNCIL MEMBER WHO BELIEVES THAT.
[02:40:01]
SO NOW YOU'RE MAKING THIS A, THIS AN ISSUE.I'M I'M, YOU YOU HAVE SEEN YOU'RE HURTING OFF THE ISSUE.
WHAT WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO TO GET 42 FIREFIGHTERS.
I THINK WE HAVE TO, I THINK WE HAVE TO CHANGE YOUR CHART TO 45 TO KEEP 42.
I THOUGHT I AND THAT'S A COMPROMISE THAT I THOUGHT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT CUZ 42 IS IN THERE ALREADY.
BUT I THINK IF YOU, YOU HAVE STATED OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN THAT YOU WANT 42 FIREFIGHTERS.
I'M ASKING YOU IF YOU WANNA MAINTAIN 42 FIREFIGHTERS, WHY DO YOU WANT TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT ON THE QUESTION 42? UH, YOU WANT 45? WE CAN'T HIT 42 RIGHT NOW APPARENTLY FOR THE STAFF.
I I WANT TO BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN 42.
I DON'T THINK THAT'S A DIFFICULT CONCEPT TO UNDERSTAND THAT.
IT'S BEEN SIX MONTHS SINCE YOU BROUGHT THIS OUT.
WHEN I'M A I'M AGREEING WITH YOU CHIEF.
I'M TRYING, YOU WANT SEVEN? I'M TRYING TO, AND I'M JUST TRYING TO, I'M JUST TRYING TO COMPROMISE.
I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO MOVE THE CITY FORWARD AND I'M, I'M, I'M JUST USING WHAT ALL WE USED TO TO DO IS DIRECT STAFF TO GET US TO 42 FIREFIGHTERS.
WELL I THINK WE HAVE AND THEY'RE NOW GIVING US UPDATES ON HAS STAFF PRODUCED THAT ON THE CANDIDATE POOL? HAS STAFF PRODUCED 42 AS FAR FIREFIGHTERS IN SIX MONTHS? HAVE THERE BEEN THE FIREFIGHTERS, BRIAN, HOW MANY HAVE WE HAD ANY RETIREMENTS, HAVE WE HAD PEOPLE THAT HAVE LEFT IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS? YES.
SINCE, SINCE WE MADE, SINCE WE'VE MADE THE AGREEMENT TO MOVE TO 42.
UM, AND, AND MAYBE THIS IS ANOTHER DISCUSSION THAT WE NEED TO HAVE, BUT I'D LIKE TO KNOW HOW MANY THAT WE'VE HIRED AND HOW MANY HAVE LEFT SINCE WE HAD THAT AGREEMENT.
UM, THERE WAS A CHART, I BELIEVE THAT ALL MEMBERS OF COUNSEL RECEIVED THAT FROM CHIEF NISLEY AT A PREVIOUS MEETING THAT HIGHLIGHTED, UH, ALL OF THOSE WHO CAME, WE AND ALL OF THOSE WHO WENT AND UM, I BELIEVE THERE WAS A VERY BRIEF WINDOW FOR ABOUT 30 MINUTES OR SO WHERE WE HAD FULLY STAFFED FIRE DIVISION AND THEN WE LOST PEOPLE TO, UH, RETIREMENTS AND UH, AND UH, UH, OPPORTUNITIES WITH OTHER DEPARTMENTS.
AND I I'M LOOKING TO SEE IF THAT, UM, REPORT FROM THE MORE DETAILED REPORT FROM CHIEF NISLEY LOOKING TO SEE WHETHER OR NOT THAT DOES, OKAY.
THE, THE ONLY POINTS I'M TRYING TO MAKE IS, IS OUR GOAL TO HIRE 42 AND AND OR IS OUR GOAL TO MAINTAIN 42 AND I MEAN SHORT OF A QUERY ON OF, OF EVERYBODY ON COUNCIL, WHAT'S THE GOAL? IS THE GOAL TO JUST HIT THIS MAGIC NUMBER AND THEN WATCH ATTRITION HAPPEN AND THEN BE BACK IN THAT CYCLE ALL OVER AGAIN TRYING TO FIND AND MAINTAIN 40 TO KEEP 42? OR IS THE, IS THE IDEA TO ACTUALLY HAVE 42 FIREFIGHTERS ON STAFF THE MAJORITY OF THE TIME OF THE YEAR? WHAT I MEAN WHAT I'M ASKING FOR SOME DISCUSSION.
WHAT'S, WHAT'S, WHAT'S THE GOAL OF THIS COUNCIL TO GET TO 42 OR IS TO MAINTAIN 42? NANCY, THE GOAL IS TO GET TO 42, BUT WE MAY NEVER GET TO 42 BECAUSE OF ATTRITION, JUST THE WAY THAT THINGS GO.
SO, AND I BELIEVE THAT YOU, SO I HAVE TO ASK THEN, SO WHEN YOU GET TO 42, YOU'RE GOOD, BUT WE JUST, WE GOT 42 NOW WHATEVER HAPPENS HAPPENS WHEN WE GET TO 42, IF SOMEONE RETIRES OR LEAVES, THEN WE PUT A, A JOB OPENING OUT THERE AND AND TRY TO FILL THAT 40 SEC 42ND POSITION.
THAT'S WHAT WE'VE BEEN, YOU CAN NEVER GUARANTEE THAT YOU'RE GONNA ALWAYS HAVE 42, BUT THAT'S ON POINT.
THAT'S WHAT WE'VE BEEN, WE WERE CAPPED AT 42.
AND WE'VE BEEN, AND I AGREE WITH THAT.
WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO THE 45 THEN AND HE'S GONNA WANT THE FUNDING FOR THE 45.
WHAT'S THE GOAL OF HAVING 42? IT'S, IT'S INSANE.
I I I MEAN I WE, WE DISAGREE THERE.
I THINK, UM, I THINK IT'S, I I THINK IT'S CRAZY TO WANT TO HAVE 42 FIREFIGHTERS BUT NOT BE ABLE TO HIRE ANY MORE THAN 42 BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT GONNA, WE'VE PROVEN YOU'RE NOT GONNA MAINTAIN 42 FOR ANY LENGTH OF PERIOD OF TIME.
IF 42 IS THE MAXIMUM NUMBER WE CAN HAVE ON THE, THAT WE CAN HIRE, I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A STATEMENT IF I COULD AND, AND TO MAKE THIS POSITIVE, BRIAN, THERE WAS A VERY, VERY NICE ARTICLE ON THE PAPER THE OTHER DAY ABOUT THE LATEST TWO FIREFIGHTERS THAT THEY HIRED AND THEY SAID THEY CAME HERE BECAUSE OF THE QUALITY OF OUR FIRE DEPARTMENT, THE REPUTATION THAT THEY HAVE.
AND, AND IN THE LITTLE TIME THAT THEY'VE BEEN HERE, THEY ARE JUST SOAKING UP THE GREAT TRAINING AND, AND SOAKING IN THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE FELLOW FIREFIGHTERS AND PARAMEDICS.
TO ME THE QUALITY OF OUR FIREFIGHTERS IS FAR MORE IMPORTANT THAN, THAN THE, THAN THE QUANTITY.
UM, CHIEF NICELEY WILL ALWAYS MAKE SURE HE HAS THE MANPOWER THAT HE NEEDS OR IS IN THE PROCESS OF GETTING THE MANPOWER THAT HE NEEDS AND ANY CHIEF IN THAT POSITION WILL DO THE SAME THING.
BUT TO ME IT'S FAR MORE IMPORTANT THAT WE HAVE THE BEST QUALITY, UH, DEPARTMENT THAT WE CAN HAVE.
[02:45:01]
AND, AND I THINK EVERYBODY AGREES THAT THERE'S JUST NOT ANOTHER ONE IN THE AREA THAT'S AS GOOD AS OUR FIRE DIVISION.I DON'T DISAGREE WITH THAT AT ALL.
MY ONLY POINT IS TO MAINTAIN 40, I'M NOT SUGGESTING JUST BECAUSE YOU MAKE IT 45, THAT YOU, WE CHANGE THE QUALITY OF THE PEOPLE THAT WE HIRE.
I'M JUST, I'M LOOKING AT, LOOK, IN ANY COMPANY, ANY BUSINESS WHERE YOU'RE TRYING TO HIRE PEOPLE, YOU HAVE A RETENTION RATE, RIGHT? AND YOU HAVE AN ATTRITION RATE.
THE RETENTION RATE SHOULD BE WHAT WE'RE FOCUSED ON OF 42 FIREFIGHTERS.
BUT YOU CAN'T RETAIN 42 IF YOU CAN'T HIRE 43 OR 44.
WE'VE SEEN THE NUMBER GO BACK AND FORTH FROM 42 TO 37 TO 38.
SO I'M JUST TRYING TO GET A SIMPLE ANSWER.
IS THE GOAL TO MAINTAIN 42 FIREFIGHTERS OR IS THE GOAL TO GET TO 42 AND THEN SAY, WELL, WHAT THE HELL WE CAN'T KEEP 'EM.
I MEAN THAT, THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME AT ALL.
AND I DON'T THINK ANY OF YOU BELIEVE THAT THAT IS THE CASE.
I DON'T THINK ANY OF YOU THINK THAT IF WE HIRE 42 AND WE GET THE DOWN TO 40, MR. LYONS ISN'T GONNA HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.
AND THEN JUST WANNA KNOW WHY WE, WHY WE DON'T HAVE 42.
AGAIN, I'M JUST TRYING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM BEFORE WE EVER GET THERE.
I MEAN, JUST, JUST TO PUT IT IN CONTEXT, ON JANUARY 15TH I RECEIVED AN EMAIL FROM CHIEF KNIK THAT BASED ON THE TOTAL NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES ACTIVELY EMPLOYED WITHIN THE, THE DEPARTMENT AND CONDITIONAL OFFERS THAT WERE OUT WAITING ON PRE-APP APPOINTMENT SCREENINGS, WE WERE AT 41.
THAT WAS, THAT WAS A MONTH AGO.
AND THOSE ARE CONDITIONAL OFFERS THAT WE'RE WAITING ON BACKGROUND CHECKS, WE'RE WAITING ON PHYSICALS, WE'RE WAITING ON, UM, PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATIONS.
THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE WERE WAITING ON.
SO JUST BETWEEN WHERE WE WERE 30 DAYS AGO, PEOPLE RESIGN, PEOPLE RETIRE, WHATEVER THE ISSUE IS, PEOPLE MAY NOT MEET ALL OF THE QUALIFICATIONS OF THEIR CONDITIONAL OFFER.
THOSE ARE ALL THINGS THAT WE CANNOT CONTROL.
SO 30 DAYS AGO WE WERE ONE PERSON AWAY.
WE'RE DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN TO REACH THE OBJECTIVE THAT'S BEEN GIVEN TO COUNCIL OR TO GIVEN TO STAFF BY COUNCIL, WHICH IS TO GET TO 42.
RIGHT? HOW LONG WILL WE HAVE, HOW, IN YOUR OPINION, WHEN WE GET TO 42, HOW LONG DO YOU THINK WE CAN KEEP 42 BASED ON, BASED ON THE PAST, BASED ON PEOPLE LEAVING, BASED ON RETIREMENTS? I MEAN, HAVE WE EVER BEEN ABLE TO KEEP, TO GET TO A POINT OF, EVEN IF IT WAS, YOU KNOW, I MEAN BEFORE WE EVEN INCREASED THE NUMBER TO 46, WE WENT FROM 36 TO 39 AND WE WEREN'T ABLE TO KEEP 39.
WE, IN FACT, SO LOOKING AT THIS NOW, CANDIDATE FOUR, THE START DATE IS TO BE DETERMINED.
THAT'S FIREFIGHTER NUMBER 39, RIGHT? IN 2018, ONE OF THE FIRST PIECES OF LEGISLATION THAT WE DID IN 2018 WAS INCREASE THE ORG CHART FOR FIREFIGHTERS FROM 36 TO 39.
SO FROM 2018 TO NOW FIVE YEARS LATER, WE HAVE THE EXACT SAME NUMBER OF FIREFIGHTERS THAT WE AGREED TO INCREASE THE NUMBER TWO, FIVE YEARS AGO.
SO THIS WHOLE IDEA OF BEING ABLE TO MAINTAIN AND HAVE FIREFIGHTERS IN THE SYSTEM WHO ARE CURRENTLY WORKING TO BE AT A CERTAIN LEVEL UNTIL, UNLESS YOU CAN HIRE MORE, IS JUST A FARCE.
WE WILL NEVER GET TO THAT NUMBER.
AND THERE'S THE PROOF RIGHT THERE.
WE HAVE 38 CURRENTLY ONE LESS THAN WE APPROVED FIVE YEARS AGO BECAUSE OF ATTRITION AND LEAVING AND QUITTING AND WE'VE HAD THE ABILITY TO HIRE THOSE PEOPLE AND WE STILL HAVEN'T.
SO IF WE'RE SERIOUS ABOUT HAVING 42 FIREFIGHTERS AND MAINTAINING THAT LEVEL OF FIRE SERVICE, YOU BETTER AGREE TO HIRE MORE.
SO YOU CAN KEEP 42 BECAUSE WE CAN'T EVEN KEEP 39 THAT WE AGREE TO FIVE YEARS AGO.
AND I WOULD NOTE THAT ON THE FIRE DIVISION'S FACEBOOK PAGE SEVEN HOURS AGO THEY POSTED A PICTURE OF OUR NEWEST FULL-TIME FIREFIGHTER, UH, NICK WHO JOINED STAFF TODAY.
SO, SO I MEAN, I, I, YOU KNOW, IF, IF WE'RE GONNA HAVE REAL DISCUSSION AROUND THIS NUMBER, THEN LET'S HAVE REAL DISCUSSION AROUND THE NUMBER AND NOT, LET'S JUST TRY TO, UM, YOU KNOW, MAKE IT AN ISSUE THAT, THAT THAT DOESN'T EXIST.
BECAUSE TRYING TO GET TO 42 FIREFIGHTERS, IF YOU CAN'T HIRE MORE THAN THAT, YOU'RE NEVER GONNA GET 42.
MARK, YOU HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE ON THIS.
YOU'VE BEEN AROUND HERE FOR 35 YEARS.
IF YOU WANNA, IF YOU WANNA HIRE PEOPLE, HOW MANY HAVE YOU GOTTA HIRE TO MAINTAIN PEOPLE? SO WE HAD THE SAME PROBLEM WHEN SCOTT SCHRADER WAS OUR CITY MANAGER IN THE, UH, DISPATCH.
[02:50:01]
WAS TO INCREASE THE STAFFING LEVEL TO MAINTAIN THE NUMBER OF DISPATCHERS PUBLIC SAFETY FELT WE NEEDED TO HAVE.AND THAT WAS THE SOLUTION BACK THEN.
SO WE DID WHAT YOU SAID, WE INCREASED THE NUMBER, WE WERE ABLE TO OVERHIRE AND BECAUSE OF ATTRITION AND WHATEVER, UH, BACK THEN, UH, DISPATCH WAS HIGH TURNOVER.
SO, SO WE HAD HIGH TURNOVER AND WE JUST INCREASED THE STAFFING LEVEL TO REACH A MINIMUM AMOUNT OF EMPLOYEES.
THE, THE ONE THING THAT KEITH BROUGHT UP IN PUBLIC WAS RIGHT AFTER NINE 11 THERE WERE A HUNDRED EMPLOYEES, UH, OR A HUNDRED APPLICANTS.
AND TODAY WE MIGHT HAVE 10, 10 APPLICANTS.
BACK IN THE DAY WE HAD A RETENTION ISSUE WITH DISPATCH MM-HMM
DO DO WE HAVE A RETENTION ISSUE TODAY IN THE FIRE DIVISION? NO, SIR.
WE, UM, WE HAVE THE BENEFIT OF OUR EMPLOYEES ENJOY WORKING HERE.
OUR ISSUE ISN'T RETENTION FROM THE STANDPOINT WE HIRE SOMEBODY, THEY DON'T LIKE THE ENVIRONMENT AND THEY LEAVE.
OUR ISSUE ISN'T THAT WE HIRE SOMEBODY AND THERE'S ANOTHER JOB OPPORTUNITY THAT'S AVAILABLE THAT PAYS THEM MORE MONEY AND THEY GO, OUR ISSUE IS THAT OUR PERSONNEL COME HERE AND THEY STAY.
AND THE BULK OF PEOPLE, IF YOU WOULD'VE STARTED RIGHT AROUND NINE 11 BASED ON OHIO POLICE AND FIRE PENSION REQUIREMENTS, YOU'RE ELIGIBLE TO RETIRE RIGHT NOW.
OUR ISSUE ISN'T THAT WE CAN'T HOLD ON TO PEOPLE BECAUSE WE'RE A TERRIBLE PLACE TO WORK.
OUR ISSUE IS WE'RE LOSING PEOPLE CUZ WE WERE A GREAT PLACE TO WORK.
AND AS TALKED ABOUT THE LAST TIME THIS MATTER CAME UP, THERE AREN'T THE PEOPLE INTERESTED IN PUBLIC SAFETY TODAY THAT WERE INTERESTED IN PUBLIC SAFETY IN THE LATE NINETIES AND EARLY TWO THOUSANDS.
AND YOU CAN SIT HERE AND LAMENT THIS ISSUE AND BROWBEAT THE EFFORTS OF STAFF, BUT NONE OF THAT CHANGES THE FACT THAT THE AVAILABILITY, THE AVAILABILITY OF QUALIFIED PERSONNEL FOR THESE TYPES OF JOBS IS EXTREMELY LIMITED AND IT'S LIMITED IN ALL FACETS OF MUNICIPAL WORK.
WE ARE STRUGGLING TO GET QUALIFIED CANDIDATES IN FINANCE.
WE ARE STRUGGLING TO GET, UM, YOU KNOW, QUALIFIED CANDIDATES IN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.
THOSE ARE ALL AREAS WHERE WE ARE ALL STRUGGLING TO FIND CANDIDATES.
AND BECAUSE OF THAT STRUGGLE, AS A MATTER OF FACT, UH, THE HUMAN RESOURCES DIRECTORS NUMBER TWO IS LEAVING OUR ORGANIZATION AT THE END OF THIS WEEK FOR EFFECTIVELY THE SAME JOB WITH BETTER PAY AT ANOTHER ORGANIZATION BECAUSE THAT ORGANIZATION WENT SO LONG WITHOUT STAFF THAT THEY PLUS PAID TO GET OUR STAFF.
THAT'S THE ENVIRONMENT WE WORK.
GOOD PEOPLE ARE HARD TO FIND AND WHEN YOU FIND THEM, YOU PAY THEM A LOT.
SO, SO YOU MENTIONED IN JANUARY WE HAD 41 FIREFIGHTERS.
WHEN DID WE HAVE 42? TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, WE HAVEN'T REACHED THAT NUMBER, BUT I WOULD HAVE TO CONFIRM THAT WITH, UH, THE FIRE CHIEF AND WITH THE HUMAN RESOURCES DIRECTOR.
COULD YOU CONFIRM THAT AND GET BACK? I I WILL DO THAT.
IS THERE ANY SIGN ON BONUSES OR ANY IDEAS LIKE THAT YOU COULD COME UP WITH? UM, THAT IS NOT A PRACTICE THAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE, BUT I AM AWARE THAT THERE ARE OTHER JURISDICTIONS THAT ARE REVERTING TO THOSE KINDS OF TACTICS TO, UM, RECRUIT QUALIFIED PEOPLE TO THEIR ORGANIZATIONS.
AND IS THERE LOCALLY A FIRE ASSOCIATION THAT, THAT WE BELONG TO AND OTHER FIRE DIVISIONS BELONG TO? THERE IS.
AND WOULD THEY ELECT A CHAIRPERSON OR, OR THE HEAD OF THAT ORGANIZATION? YES SIR.
COULD YOU SCHEDULE WHOEVER THAT IS TO COME AND SPEAK TO THIS ISSUE.
UH, I, I'M HAPPY TO GET THEM HERE AS QUICKLY AS THEY'RE AVAILABLE.
YEAH, BECAUSE IF THEY HAVE IN THE REGION THE SAME PROBLEM, IT SPEAKS TO WHAT IS GOING ON.
IF THEY COME AND SPEAK TO THE FACT THAT THEY'RE NOT HAVING A PROBLEM, THEN WE HAVE ANOTHER ISSUE WE NEED TO LOOK AT.
THE PROFESSIONAL PERIODICAL, FOUR CITY MANAGERS THIS MONTH WAS DEVOTED TO NOTHING BUT ADDRESSING THE HIRING PROBLEM.
SO I WILL, UH, REACH OUT TO THE, UM, CHIEF'S ASSOCIATION AND SEE IF WE CAN'T HAVE SOMEBODY AVAILABLE TO COME AND TALK TO THIS PROBLEM.
UH, BRIAN, NOT TO, I'M NOT GONNA ASK FOR SPECIFIC NAMES OR POSITIONS, BUT IS
[02:55:01]
THERE ANY WAY TO SAY, UH, UM, CREATE A LIST OF, UM, FIRE DEPARTMENT, UH, THE, THE FIREFIGHTER EMT POSITIONS THAT WE HA THAT HAVE LEFT US IN THE LAST, SAY, 12 OR 24 MONTHS? AND, UH, YOU KNOW, HOW MANY OF THOSE WERE RETIRES? HOW MANY OF THOSE WERE WENT TO ANOTHER DEPARTMENT? HOW MANY JUST QUIT AND WE DON'T KNOW WHY.UM, YOU KNOW, IS THERE ANY WAY TO GET SOMETHING LIKE THAT TO JUST GENERAL? I, I DON'T NEED DEEP DETAIL, BUT JUST OUTTA CURIOSITY, BECAUSE I MEAN, THAT MAY BE A POINT.
I MEAN, IF WE GOT PEOPLE WHO ARE LEAVING RETIREMENTS, WE PAT 'EM ON THE BACK AND SAY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
YOU'VE DONE A GREAT JOB AND ENJOY THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.
NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT THAT GUYS LEAVING BECAUSE WE DON'T PAY ENOUGH AND OTHER LOCALS ARE, WELL, THAT'S A PROBLEM, RIGHT? GUYS LEAVING BECAUSE OUR WORK ENVIRONMENT'S BAD, BUT OTHERS AREN'T.
THAT'S A PROBLEM WE CAN FIX IF PEOPLE ARE LEAVING BECAUSE, UH, WE DON'T HAVE THE PERKS.
OTHER DEPARTMENTS, THAT'S A PROBLEM THAT WE CAN FIX.
SO IF, DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? CAN WE FIGURE THAT OUT? AGAIN, RETIREES, GOOD LUCK TO 'EM.
AND HEY, I, I'M GLAD YOU'RE HERE, BUT THE REST OF 'EM, THERE'S GOTTA BE A REASON THEY LEFT.
AND I'M SURE WE COULD POSSIBLY ADDRESS THOSE.
UH, IN FEBRUARY OF, EXCUSE ME, IN MARCH OF 2022, A FIRE FIGHTER WHO HAD COME TO WORK WITH US FROM ANOTHER ORGANIZATION, UH, WAS RECRUITED BACK TO HIS, UH, PREVIOUS ORGANIZATION.
IN JUNE OF THAT YEAR, WE HAD A FIREFIGHTER RETIRE.
THEN IN, LET'S SEE, AUGUST OF THAT YEAR, WE HAD A CANDIDATE WITHDRAWAL.
UM, UM, THEN WE HAD, UH, IN SEPTEMBER WE HAD A, SORRY, UM, CANDIDATE ASIDE, IF WE'RE TALKING FULL-TIME PERSONNEL.
THEN IN SEPTEMBER WE HAD ANOTHER, UM, INDIVIDUAL RESIGN.
THEN IN NOVEMBER WE HAD A THIRD MEMBER RESIGN.
THEN IN LATER IN NOVEMBER, WE HAD ANOTHER MEMBER MEDICALLY SEPARATE.
THEN IN DECEMBER OF 2022, WE HAD ANOTHER FIREFIGHTER MEDICALLY SEPARATE.
IN JANUARY OF 2023, A FIREFIGHTER WHO HAD COME TO JOIN OUR ORGANIZATION WAS RECRUITED TO RETURN TO THEIR ORGANIZATION.
UH, AND I BELIEVE THAT THAT RECRUITMENT WAS ACTUALLY ASSOCIATED WITH THE RELOCATION OF THAT PERSON'S SPOUSE.
SO THE, SO I HEARD ONE, RETIRED, TWO MEDICAL, UM, THE OTHERS, OR POSSIBLY WAS THE WAY WE COULD HAVE KEPT HIM.
I MEAN, THEY WERE LOOKING FOR SOMETHING.
SO, SO I WAS JUST CURIOUS IF WE WRAP ALL THIS UP IN A BALL.
I THINK SO IF I GO BACK TO JANUARY 1ST, 2018, WE MADE A COMMITMENT TO, AT THAT POINT WAS CHIEF ASHWORTH TO HIRE THREE ADDITIONAL FIREFIGHTERS TO GO FROM 36 TO 39.
AND THEN LAST YEAR WE MADE THE COMMITMENT TO GO FROM 39 TO 42.
SO WE'VE ADDED IN THE ORG CHART, SIX FIREFIGHTER PARAMEDICS IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS, FROM JANUARY OF 2018 UNTIL NOW.
BRIAN, WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, IF YOU COULD HAVE FOR US THE NEXT WORK SESSION, HOW MANY FIREFIGHTERS DID WE HAVE? WE HIRED TOTAL, WHETHER THEY BE LATERAL ENTRY, THEY WERE NEW PEOPLE, WHATEVER THE CASE IS.
BECAUSE WE HAD 36 FIREFIGHTERS IN 2018.
ACTUALLY, I THINK WE MIGHT HAVE HAD 35 WHEN WE, WHEN WE PASSED THAT LEGISLATION.
CAUSE WE WERE, WE WERE AGAIN, SHORT ONE OF BEING FULLY STAFFED.
SO WHAT WAS THE NUMBER? UH, SO THIS IS WHAT I WANT TO KNOW.
WHAT WAS THE NUMBER OF FIREFIGHTERS WE HAD PARAMEDICS, EMTS ON JANUARY 1ST, 2018.
HOW MANY HAVE WE HIRED? AS OF FEBRUARY? THE WHAT? WHATEVER TODAY IS FEBRUARY, 2020 FIRST.
SO HOW MANY WE'VE HIRED SINCE JANUARY OF 18 THROUGH TODAY.
AND THEN HOW MANY HAVE LEFT? AND I THINK WE'LL BE ABLE TO KNOW HOW MANY HAVE LEFT.
CUZ IF WE STARTED WITH 36 AND IF WE'VE HIRED 20 FIREFIGHTERS OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST FIVE YEARS, AND RIGHT NOW WE HAVE 39 WAITING FOR THE 39TH ONE TO START, WE HAVE 38.
MAYBE THAT'S, MAYBE THAT'S WHERE WE STARTED LOOKING.
WHICH OF THEM WOULD GO TO MY POINT, IF WE WANNA MAINTAIN A LEVEL OF 42 FIREFIGHTERS, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO HIRE MORE THAN 42.
SO, UH, BRIAN, I ASKED YOU A QUESTION ABOUT DO WE HAVE A RETENTION PROBLEM? AND IF I RECALL TONIGHT, YOUR ANSWER WAS NO.
THEN GLENN ASKED IF WE COULD HAVE SOME INFORMATION BASED ON WHO LEFT AND WHY YOU THEN REFERENCED YOUR COMPUTER MONITOR.
AFTER READING THAT OFF TO US, IS YOUR ANSWER STILL, WE DON'T HAVE A RETENTION PROBLEM? IT IS.
[03:00:01]
BACK TO 2018 AND WE LOOK AT HOW MANY FIREFIGHTERS LEFT, AND WE HAVE A REASON ASSOCIATED TO EACH, WE COULD THEN EXAMINE A LITTLE DEEPER IF WE HAVE A RETENTION PROBLEM.AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE A RETENTION PROBLEM, THEN YOU MUST HAVE A HIRING PROBLEM.
FOR WHATEVER REASONS, AND WE CAN FOCUS OUR EFFORT AND ATTENTION TO THAT.
SO YOU CAN GET US THAT DATA BACK TO 2018.
UH, WE CAN, UH, I MEAN WE'LL DO OUR BEST TO GET THE INFORMATION.
I APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF ISSUES ON TONIGHT'S AGENDA THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO A LOT OF MEMBERS OF COUNCIL.
WE WILL DO OUR BEST TO GET YOU THE INFORMATION AS QUICKLY AS WE CAN, BUT WE HAVE OTHER OBLIGATIONS AS PART OF THE BUSINESS OPERATIONS, AND WE HAVE SOME STAFFING CONSTRAINTS AT THE ADMINISTRATIVE LEVEL.
AND SO WE DO OUR MOTION TO GET ALL OF THE REQUESTS FILLED AS QUICKLY AS WE CAN.
BUT KEEP IN MIND THAT IF IT TAKES YOU THROUGH TOMORROW AFTERNOON, THAT'S OKAY.
YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO A FIRST THING IN THE MORNING.
SO AFTER LUNCH WOULD BE ALL RIGHT.
I WILL, UH, I WILL AFTER LUNCH.
I'LL PENCIL THAT ON MY CALENDAR.
THANK YOU FOR THE, UH, AND I WAS JUST KIDDING ABOUT THAT.
UH, BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE, ED, I WANNA COME BACK TO YOU AND ASK YOU WHAT YOUR PROPOSAL MAY BE OR THINGS THAT WE COULD DO BETTER, UM, TO HIRE MORE PEOPLE FASTER TO GET TO THAT NUMBER, TO GET, TO GET TO NUMBER 42.
AND I'M NOT EVEN ABOUT MAINTAINING 42, JUST TO GET, JUST TO GET TO THE NUMBER 42.
UM, I'VE ALREADY GIVEN MY PROPOSAL, BUT I'LL REITERATE.
UM, WE HAVE A VERY GOOD STAFF.
WE TELL THEM WHAT A PRIORITY IS AND THEY'LL MEET IT.
AND IF THEY CAN'T MEET IT, WE WILL GET ADDITIONAL STAFF THAT WILL BE ABLE TO DO THAT.
THAT'S ALL THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.
I HAVE FAITH AND CONFIDENCE IN BRYANT, CHIEF KNIK HUMAN RESOURCES DIRECTOR.
IF WE DO THAT, MAKE IT A PRIORITY, IT'LL BE DONE.
I THINK, I THINK STAFF KNOWS THAT THIS IS A PRIORITY.
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS SO MUCH.
I DON'T KNOW HOW ANYBODY DOESN'T KNOW THAT IT'S A PRIORITY.
AND WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING AT THE SHEETS THAT SHOW WHO'S AVAILABLE AND WHAT STEP OF THE PROCESS THAT THEY'RE, THAT THEY'RE IN.
SO, WITH ALL THAT SAID AND TRYING TO FIND COMPROMISE, UH, WE'VE SPENT 45 MINUTES AND I DON'T FEEL LIKE WE ACCOMPLISHED ANYTHING.
[ Case TA 22-42.1 - City Of Huber Heights - Text Amendment - Home Occupations ]
NEXT UP IS ITEM THREE H, CASE TA 22 DASH 42 1 CITY OF RIGHTS TAX AMENDMENT FOR HOME OCCUPATIONS, RIGHT? UH, YES, SIR.UH, THIS MATTER WAS, UH, BOUND OVER FROM THE LAST MEETING, UH, REGARDING, UH, WHAT WAS, UM, PERCEIVED TO BE A CONFLICT OF THE EXISTING SIGN CODE AS IT RELATES TO, UH, SOME PROPOSED PROVISIONS OF THIS CODE AMENDMENT.
HAVING HAD A DISCUSSION WITH, UH, THE PLANNER, UH, THE, UH, DISCREPANCY WAS INTENTIONAL.
UH, THE IDEA WAS THAT, UH, THE SIGN IN QUESTION WOULD ALLOW, UH, FOLKS TO IDENTIFY THE LOCATION OF THE BUSINESS, THE HOME WITH THE BUSINESS, AND THE APPROPRIATE LOCATION, UH, AT THAT HOME TO ACCESS THAT BUSINESS, WHICH IS WHY THE, UH, ATTENTION, THE, UM, HOME OCCUPATION SIGN WAS INTENTIONALLY LARGER, UH, THAN, UM, THAN, UH, THE OTHER SIGNED PARAMETERS WITHIN THE RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT.
KNOWING THAT THAT WAS THE QUESTION THAT WAS POSED BY COUNSEL, THAT WAS THE INFORMATION THAT WE RECEIVED BACK FROM THE PLANNER.
UH, AND WE HOPE THAT THIS IS SATISFACTORY TO COUNCIL AS THIS MATTER IS ON THE, UH, AGENDA FOR THE NEXT COUNCIL MEETING ON MONDAY.
ANY QUESTIONS? DON? THANK YOU, MAYOR.
I CAN ONLY GO ON RECORD IS SAYING THAT, UM, ALTHOUGH THE, THE FOUR SQUARE FOOT SIGNAGE FOR, UH, HOME OCCUPATION, UH, MAY BE INTENTIONAL HERE, UH, IT DOES GO AGAINST THE TWO SQUARE FOOT SIGNAGE REQUIREMENTS, UM, ARE LIMITATIONS FOR A RESIDENTIAL AREA.
AND, UH, SO BECAUSE OF THAT, I WILL NOT BE SUPPORTING THIS, UH, LANGUAGE AS IT'S WRITTEN.
I THINK A FOUR SQUARE FOOT SIGN IN A RESIDENTIAL AREA, IF YOU JUST PICTURE ONE OUT OF EVERY SO MANY HOUSES WITH A FOUR SQUARE FOOT SIGN IN A RESIDENTIAL AREA, UH, PRETTY MUCH DESTROYS THE INTEGRITY OF THE RESIDENTIAL AREA AND DOES NOT COMPLY WITH WHAT THE INTENTION OF A HOME OCCUPATION IS.
AND THAT IS THAT IT BE BASICALLY INVISIBLE TO THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORS.
ANY OTHER QUES? YES, MARK, I AGREE WITH DON AND WE'LL BE VOTING, NO.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, ANY OBJECTIONS TO THOSE? MOVING THIS ON TO MONDAY'S MEETING? IT'S, IT'S ALREADY ON THE AGENDA FOR
[03:05:01]
A THIRD MEETING, SO IT WOULD JUST BE A VOTE.DISPENSE WITHIN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.
[ Vacation Rental Properties]
ITEM THREE I, VOCATIONAL PROPERTIES.UH, AGAIN, THE PLANNER'S DONE SOME ADDITIONAL RESEARCH, UH, IN REVIEW AND EVALUATING THIS PARTICULAR MATTER.
UH, 17 LISTINGS WERE IDENTIFIED, UH, HERE LOCATED WITHIN, UH, THE CITY.
UH, THE, UH, INFORMATION AVAILABLE DEMONSTRATES THAT, UH, OF THE 17 LISTINGS, 11 CHARGED LESS THAN A HUNDRED DOLLARS A DAY, NONE ARE MORE THAN 190 A NIGHT.
UM, ALL OF THE REVIEWS, UH, THAT WERE AVAILABLE FOR THESE PROPERTIES REFERENCED, UH, POSITIVE EXPERIENCES.
AND BASED ON THE INFORMATION AVAILABLE, IT APPEARS THAT A THIRD, UH, OF THESE UNITS ARE, UH, EXECUTIVE RENTALS ASSOCIATED, UH, MOST LIKELY FOR, UH, WRIGHT PATTERSON AIR FORCE BASE.
UH, THEY'RE APPROXIMATELY A THIRD, UH, ARE DEDICATED OR, UH, GEARED TOWARD MILITARY PERSONNEL.
AND THEN THE OTHER THIRD, UH, WOULD BE MORE COMMON OR RELATIVE, UH, PURPOSES, ALTHOUGH THE MAJORITY POST, UH, REGIONAL VISITING INFORMATION SUCH AS THE MUSEUM OR CARRIAGE HILL.
AND IT IS THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE PLANNER AND, UH, SUPPORTED BY MYSELF THAT FOR THE NUMBER OF UNITS THAT ARE LISTED FOR THE RENTAL RATES THAT ARE PROVIDED IN THE NATURE OF THEIR PURPOSES, THAT, UH, THE RE THE REGULATORY JUICE ON THIS PARTICULAR MATTER WOULD NOT NECESSARILY BE WORTH THE SQUEEZE.
BUT WE ARE HAPPY TO FOLLOW ANY FURTHER DIRECTION, UH, AND, UH, ADVICE THAT COUNSEL MAY OFFER ON THIS MATTER.
COMMENTS, RICHARD? THANK YOU, MAYOR.
UH, THIS WAS, UH, BROUGHT FORTH, UH, OUT OF THE RECOMMENDATION OF, UH, THE NATIONAL LEAGUE OF CITIES WHO WAS PUT TOGETHER A 22 PAGE, UM, GUIDE, UH, FOR COMMUNITIES DEALING WITH, UM, UH, VACATION RENTALS, VERBOS, THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
UM, I KNOW THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF COMMUNITIES, UH, ATHENS, COLUMBUS, UH, CUYAHOGA FALLS, UM, AND THE LISTS ON AND ON THAT HAS PUT, UM, ORDINANCES ON THE BOOKS, UM, TO TRY TO BE PROACTIVE.
I THAT HAVE REACTIVE WHEN IT COMES TO THIS MERIT IS MY BELIEF AS THIS COMMUNITY CONTINUES TO GROW, UH, WITH SEVERAL HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS AND PROJECTS, UH, IN THE WORKS, UM, ESPECIALLY THOSE CLOSE TO I 70, UM, THAT WE MAY NOT HAVE A, AN ABUNDANCE, UM, YOU KNOW, 20 PLUS.
UM, HOWEVER, UH, BEING PROACTIVELY, UH, YOU KNOW, UM, LOOKING FORWARD, UM, THE OPPORTUNITY IS GOING TO PRESENT ITSELF.
UM, I THINK IT'S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THIS COUNCIL TO AT LEAST, UH, PUT TOGETHER, UH, UH, AN ORDINANCE, UM, UH, WITH THE NLC, UM, UM, GUIDELINES AS WELL AS SOME OF THOSE ALREADY EXISTING, UM, SO THAT THE CITY CAN, UH, BE ABLE TO PROTECT ITS INTEREST.
UM, INSTEAD OF, UH, WORKING ON A REACTIVE BASIS, YOU KNOW, THREE, FOUR YEARS FROM NOW WHEN, UH, WE HAVE, UH, BRAND NEW APARTMENTS, UH, AT TROY AND, UH, 70 AND, UH, THOSE, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, BECOME, YOU KNOW, RENTALS OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE, OR HOUSING DEVELOPMENT, UM, DOWN OFF OF, UH, CHAMBERSBURG.
UM, I, I JUST THINK THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY.
UM, AND AGAIN, I'M JUST ONE COUNCIL MEMBER.
UM, BUT, UM, IN MY WORK WITH NLC, I'VE SEEN SMALL COMMUNITIES, UM, BECOME INUNDATED WITH THESE ITEMS WITH NO ORDINANCES ON THE BOOKS FOLLOWING TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.
AND JUST LAST MAY, UM, YOU KNOW, A COMMITTEE, UM, OUT OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY TRIED TO, UM, UM, HOLD BACK, UM, WHAT CITIES COULD AND COULD NOT DO WHEN IT COMES TO VACATION RENTALS.
FORTUNATELY, THAT JUST CAME OUTTA COMMITTEE AND IT DID NOT PASS.
UH, WHICH IS WHY A LOT OF COMMUNITIES, ESPECIALLY IN NORTHEAST OHIO AND CENTRAL OHIO HAS JUMPED ON AND, UM, PUT THOSE ON THE BOOKS, UM, TO BE PROACTIVE.
UM, I'D BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO WORK WITH OUR CLERK OF COUNSEL TO SEND THESE ITEMS OVER FOR REVIEW.
UM, I KNOW HIS GREAT WORK WITH, UM, UH, WITH HIS, UH, CLERK OF COUNSEL'S ADMINISTRATION, UM, WOULD BE ABLE TO, UH, PULL TOGETHER SOME, UH, DIFFERENT ORDINANCES FOR THIS COUNCIL TO TAKE A LOOK AT.
UM, I JUST WANTED THIS AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO START THE DISCUSSION TO SEE IF THE APPETITE WAS THERE.
UM, AGAIN, I'M NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT MARRIED TO IT.
UH, THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT CAME OUT OF THE CED COMMITTEE THAT I WAS THE VICE CHAIR OF LAST YEAR.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, ANY OBJECTIONS TO MOVING THIS ON MONDAY? OKAY, NEXT UP AS ITEM THREE.
SO THIS MATTER WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK, UH, TO A WORK SESSION ASSOCIATED WITH LEGISLATION, IF THAT WAS THE WILL OF COUNSEL.
[ Indigent Burial Policy]
NEXT UP I THREE J, THE INDIGENT BURIAL POLICY.SO, UM, THE OHIO REVISED CODE REQUIRES THAT WHEN THERE'S A DEATH OF
[03:10:01]
AN INDIGENT PERSON WITHIN, UH, A CITY'S LIMITS, AND THERE'S NO ONE, UM, TO CLAIM THAT, UM, WHO HAS MEANS TO PROVIDE FOR A CREMATION OR BURIAL OF THE INDIGENT PERSON, THEN IT BECOMES THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE CITY TO DO SO.UM, THIS HAS BEEN A LONGSTANDING PRACTICE THROUGHOUT THE STATE OF OHIO, AND AS I SAID, IT'S CODIFIED THROUGH THE OHIO REVISED CODE.
SO WE DO, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY LESS THAN SEVEN OF THESE A YEAR.
UM, THEY DO DO HAPPEN, UM, AND, UH, IT'S BEEN JUST KIND OF BEEN DONE ON AN AD HOC BASIS TO THIS POINT WHERE, UH, SOMEONE, A FUNERAL HOME CALLS WITH A CORONER CALLS AND SAYS, UH, WE HAVE THIS INDIGENT, UH, BURIAL, UM, YOU NEED TO MAKE ARRANGEMENTS TO DO IT.
SO IT'S JUST BEEN KIND OF DONE BY THE PERSON WHO'S BEEN TASKED WITH HAVING THAT RESPONSIBILITY TO THIS.
UM, AND THAT'S PASSED THROUGH A LOT OF PEOPLE OVER THE YEARS.
UM, BRIAN AND I HAD A DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS, AND I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH, UH, RACHEL, UH, DILLA HUNT, WHO'S OUR RECEPTIONIST, BUT SHE'S THE PERSON WHO'S CURRENTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR HANDLING THESE.
AND WE KIND OF, ID IDENTIFIED AN ISSUE WITH THIS WHEN THE PREVIOUS PERSON HAD LEFT THE CITY THAT WAS HANDLING THESE.
AND, YOU KNOW, WHEN RACHEL TOOK OVER, THERE WAS NOTHING TO DIRECT HER ABOUT HOW TO HANDLE IT AND THE PROCESS FOR, UM, ENSURING THAT THIS WAS HANDLED PROPERLY.
SO, UM, HER AND I HAVE BEEN WORKING TOGETHER, HAVE DRAFTED A POLICY, WHICH WAS INCLUDED IN THE PACKET.
UM, I DID SOME RESEARCH WITH THE, UH, MUNICIPAL CLERKS ASSOCIATION TO SEE, UM, SOME OF THE POLICIES THAT WERE AROUND IN OUR SURROUNDING COMMUNITIES, WHICH WE USE TO DEVELOP THIS POLICY.
UM, IT HAS GONE, UNDERGONE A LEGAL REVIEW BY THE LAW DIRECTOR WHO'S, UH, SANCTIONED IT.
SO, UM, I'M ASKING, UH, FOR COUNSEL'S APPROVAL TO, UH, PUT AN ORDINANCE, UH, ADOPTING THIS POLICY AS A FORMAL POLICY OF THE CITY, UM, ON THE AGENDA FOR MONDAY.
IT WOULD ALSO, UH, THE ORDINANCE WOULD SPECIFY THAT THIS, UH, POLICY WOULD BE CODIFIED INTO OUR HUBER HEIGHTS CODIFIED ORDINANCES, UM, SO THAT THE PROCESS WOULD BE THERE AND COULD BE DRAWN UPON SHOULD THE CIRCUMSTANCES WARRANT IT.
AND, UM, IT COULD GO FOR TWO READINGS, UH, PRIOR TO A VOTE ON ADOPTION.
IS THERE ANYTHING IN HERE? UM, AND THERE'S A, THERE'S A SPELLING THING THERE.
UH, IS THERE ANYTHING IN HERE THAT SAYS THAT THE CITY WILL NOT BE HELD LIABLE FOR DOING THAT? UH, LIKE I SAID, THIS WAS, UH, UNDERTAKEN BY THE, UH, LAW DIRECTOR.
UM, PART OF THIS PROCESS IS THERE'S AN APPLICATION WHICH IS INCLUDED IN HERE.
AND SO, UH, THE PERSON WHO'S WANTING TO, UM, TRY TO CLAIM THE BODY OF AN INDIGENT PERSON, UM, HAS TO, HAS, WE HAVE TO DETERMINE THEIR ELIGIBILITY AS AN INDIGENT PERSON.
AS THE CLAIMANT AS WELL, RIGHT.
SO THEY WOULD HAVE TO PROVIDE THIS, AND THEN IT WOULD BE, UM, THE APPLICATION WOULD BE, WE WOULD ASCERTAIN THE NEEDS AGAINST THE, UH, 150% OF THE POVERTY LEVEL TO DETERMINE WHETHER IT'D BE THE CITY'S RESPONSIBILITY TO PAY IT OR NOT.
WHAT, WHAT I'M, WHAT I'M ASKING IS IF, IF WE TOOK THE RESPONSIBILITY AND DISPOSES OF THE REMAINS, AND THEN SOMEBODY CAME UP LATER AND SAID, THAT WAS MY RELATIVE PROVED IT WAS A RELATIVE, IS THE CITY LIABLE IN ANY WAY FOR HAVING DONE THAT WITH THE ASSUMPTION THAT THEY WERE IN INDIGENT? I'M, I, I DON'T TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION BECAUSE I'M NOT SURE THE INDIGENCY RELATES TO, TO THAT.
I'M NOT SURE WHO'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR DISPOSING OF THE BODY.
WE'RE JUST, WE'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR GIVING THE MONEY TO THE FUNERAL HOME TO PAY FOR IT.
WE WOULD, BUT THAT'S OUR RESPONSIBILITY UNDER THE OHIO REVISED CODE.
AND MATT, YOU COULD ADD ANY MORE ON THE LEGAL, UH, LIABILITY OF DOING THIS, BUT WE'RE WE'RE OBLIGATED UNDER THE HIGHER ADVISED.
BUT I'M, I'M JUST ASKING IS THERE ANY POTENTIAL LIABILITY FOR US TO AUTHORIZE THAT? WHAT I THINK YOU'RE GETTING AT HERE IS, YOU KNOW, SOME PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO BE CREMATED FOR, FOR THE RELIGIOUS PURPOSES, AND THERE MAY BE A WRONGFUL CREMATION CLAIM IS WHAT I THINK YOU'RE GETTING AT FOR LIABILITY PURPOSES.
[03:15:01]
BUT THIS IS STATUTORY CREATION.THAT MEANS THAT WE DO HAVE THE PROTECTION OF THE HIGH REVISED CODE FROM THAT LIABILITY ISSUES, FIRST AND FOREMOST.
IT'S NOT JUST WE FIND SOMEONE ON THE STREET AND THEN GIVEN THEIR FUNERAL DIRECTOR AND, AND TAKE CARE OF THATAND.
SO I DON'T THINK THAT IT'S, I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE CONCERNED, BUT THE WAY THAT THIS PROCESS IS PREPARED AND THAT IT'S A COMPLIANCE WITH STATE LAW, UH, LIABILITY SHOULD NOT BE AN ISSUE.
I DIDN'T SEE IT, UH, DISCUSSED, SO I JUST THOUGHT I'D ASK THE QUESTION.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS? GLENN? MY QUESTION WAS JUST SIMPLY A CURIOSITY, TONY, UP UNTIL NOW, UH, WHO TAKES CARE OF THAT? I ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT WAS A COUNTY PROGRAM THAT, THAT TOOK CARE OF HIM? NO, UM, WE, UH, HAD JUST, UH, THE CORONER CALLS US OR THE FUNERAL HOME THAT HAS THE BODY CALLS US, AND FIRST WE HAVE TO DETERMINE RESIDENCY TO MAKE SURE THEY WERE HUBER HEIGHTS RESIDENT.
UM, THERE ARE SOME, UM, CLASSIFICATIONS OF TRANSIENTS THAT MIGHT BE TRAVELING THROUGH, OKAY, UH, HUBER HEIGHTS AND DIE HERE, AND IF NO ONE ELSE CAN BE FOUND, THERE CAN, THAT COULD ALSO FALL TO OUR RESPONSIBILITY.
BUT, UH, A COUPLE THAT I'VE ACTUALLY HEARD HAPPEN THAT WE WERE, THAT WAS THE SITUATION.
THEY WERE PASSING THROUGH AND PASSED AWAY.
AND THEN, AND, UM, JUST INTERNALLY, IT'S, IT'S HISTORICALLY BEEN THE CITY MANAGER'S ADMINISTRATIVE SECRETARY WHO'S JUST MADE THE ARRANGEMENTS BUT NOT FOLLOWING ANY SPECIFIC PROCESS.
UM, SO THIS WOULD KIND OF STANDARDIZE THAT AND MAKE IT A LITTLE MORE CONSISTENT.
I SHOULD MENTION ALSO THAT ONE OF THE THINGS I DID FIND OUT IN CONTEXT WITH SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES, UH, IN OTHER CITIES WAS THAT, UM, THE STATE OF OHIO ALSO HAS A, UH, REIMBURSEMENT PROGRAM THAT THE CITY CAN BECOME A PROVIDER, UM, BY APPLYING TO THIS PROGRAM.
AND THEN WE CAN SUBMIT THE COST OF THIS TO THE STATE ONCE WE'RE APPROVED AND SEEK REIMBURSEMENT FROM THE STATE FOR THE, UH, TO COVER OUR COSTS IN TERMS OF THE CREMATION.
SO THERE MIGHT BE, UH, A POTENTIAL FOR US TO SEEK SOME OF THESE COSTS AND RECOUP THEM BACK AS NICE.
AND TO BE CLEAR, WE'RE NOT GETTING INTO THE FUNERAL HOME BUSINESS, CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT.
THAT WAS, AND THERE IS ALSO IN HERE A, A PROVISION THAT SHOULD SOMEONE'S, UM, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE MAKES A CLAIM AND SAYS THEY HAVE A, A RELIGIOUS REASON FOR NOT BEING CREMATED.
UH, THERE IS AN EXCEPTION WHERE THE CITY MANAGER CAN, UH, MAKE OTHER ARRANGEMENTS BASED ON A RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION FOR CREMATION.
RICHARD? UH, JUST A QUICK QUESTION AND, AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHY THIS EVEN CAME UP IN MY MIND.
UM, I MEAN, I, I KNOW MY FATHER WHO IS CREMATED, UM, YOU KNOW, I HAVE HIM IN MY HOUSE.
UM, AND THERE'S, YOU KNOW, THOSE, THEY GOT THOSE LITTLE TOKENS THAT THEY PUT IN THERE THAT YOU CAN TAKE TO ANY FUNERAL HOME OR WHAT DO WE CURRENTLY HAVE A POLICY AND PROCEDURE WITH OUR FIRE DEPARTMENT AND POLICE DEPARTMENT THAT IF, YOU KNOW, A HOUSE WAS TO, YOU KNOW, BURN DOWN AND CREMATIONS WERE FOUND THAT HOW THEY'RE PROPERLY DISPOSED OF, I MEAN, HOW THEY'RE PROPERLY TAKEN CARE OF AND RETURNED.
UNCLE JOE'S ON THE MANTLE, THE HOUSE BURNS DOWN.
WHAT DOES THE FIRE DEPARTMENT DO WITH UNCLE JOE? DO WE HAVE A POLICY AND PROCEDURE SET IN PLACE ON THAT OR IF THE HOUSE IS ABANDONED OR IF FORECLOSED UPON? I, I'D HAVE TO ASK.
THE REASON I SAY THAT IS CUZ YOU KNOW, MY, MY FATHER, HE'S, NO, I LOT, LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE THEM IN THE CLOSET.
AND I, AND I MEAN, SINCE WE'RE KIND OF ON THE TOPIC, IT JUST KIND OF CAME UP CUZ MY DAD SITS IN MY GARAGE AND I SAY HELLO TO HIM EVERY DAY AND, BUT YOU KNOW, IF YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW, IT SEEMS LIKE IF THERE WERE SOMETHING, IT'D PROBABLY BE WITH THE COUNTY CORONER.
CAUSE IT'S JUST INDIGENT PEOPLE WHO ARE RESIDENTS OF HUBER HEIGHTS OR TRANSIENT THROUGH HUBER HEIGHTS, THEY DIE HERE.
UM, THEN, UH, WE, WE'D HAVE TO DO SOMETHING IF NO ONE'S GOING TO CLAIM.
NOW, IF SOMEONE OF MEANS CLAIMS THIS PERSON AND, UM, THEY'RE WILLING TO PAY OUT THE EXPENSES WE'RE THERE TODAY, WE'RE AT ALL, THESE ARE THE CASES WHERE EITHER THE PERSON THAT WANTS TO CLAIM THEM IS ALSO INDIGENT, UM, OR THERE'S NO ONE TO CLAIM THEM.
NO, THAT JUST, LIKE I SAID, JUST POPPED IN MY HEAD CUZ UM, AND MY DAY JOB, I'VE ACTUALLY RAN ACROSS A COUPLE OF THOSE ISSUES ON SOME LOST CLAIMS WHERE THOSE ITEMS HAVE BEEN FOUND AND YEAH.
I'M AFRAID TO ASK IF THERE'S ANY MORE COMMENTS.
[ Liquor Permit #8827366 - Taylor Mart, LLC - 6025 Taylorsville Road]
ON TO ITEM THREE K, LIQUOR PERMIT NUMBER 88 27 360 6, THE TAYLOR MART LLC AT 60 25 TAYLORSVILLE ROAD.IT IS, UH, C1 C TWO LIQUOR PERMIT FOR TAYLOR MART, UH, HERE ON TAYLORSVILLE ROAD.
THIS IS THE NEW CONVENIENCE STORE THAT'S BEING BUILT JUST DOWN THE STREET FROM CITY HALL AND, UH, UH,
[03:20:01]
JUST A FEW BLOCKS AWAY.UM, YEAH, IT'S, UH, ACTIVELY UNDER CONSTRUCTION.
UM, AND UH, THIS WOULD JUST BE TO SAY THAT WE HAVE NO OBJECTIONS TO MAKE WITH THE OHIO DIVISION OF LIQUOR CONTROL OR TO REQUEST A PUBLIC HEARING.
AND, UM, AND THESE ARE C1, IT'S BEEN REVIEWED BY THE, IT'S C1 AND C NO SHOTS BEING SERVED.
ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, ANY OBJECTION? OKAY.
[ City Code - Supplement 12/Supplement 13 - Adopting Ordinance]
THREE L CITY CODE SUPPLEMENT, UH, 12 AND SUPPLEMENT 13 AND ADOPTING THOSE ORGANS.UH, THIS IS JUST A ROUTINE THING THAT I'VE BROUGHT BEFORE YOU IN THE PAST.
THIS IS WHERE WE TAKE LEGISLATION THAT'S BEEN PASSED OVER, UH, QUARTERS BY THE CITY COUNCIL AND SEND IT TO OUR CODIFICATION SERVICE FOR CODIFICATION INTO THE HUB RIGHTS CODIFIED ORDINANCES.
UM, THIS COVERS, UH, SUPPLEMENT 12 FOR THE PERIOD OF JULY 1ST, 2022 TO SEPTEMBER 30TH, 2022 AND SEPTEMBER 13TH, WHICH, UM, IS FOR THE THIRD QUARTER OF 2022.
OCTOBER 1ST THROUGH DECEMBER 31ST.
UH, THIS IS, UH, ORDINANCE AND COULD GO TO TWO READINGS.
UM, THE CITY CHARTER DOES REQUIRE WHEN WE, UM, ADOPT A, AN UPDATE TO THE CODIFIED ORDINANCES THAT APPROPRIATE LEGAL NA NOTICE BE ADVERTISED IN A NEWSPAPER OF GENERAL CIRCULATION.
AND, UH, SO THAT WILL APPEAR IN THE, UH, DAILY COURT REPORTER THIS FRIDAY.
AND, UM, I WOULD JUST ASK COUNSEL'S INDULGENCE TO PLACE THIS ON THE AGENDA FOR THE FIRST READING ON MONDAY.
ON, ON ITEM E E THE EAST SANITARY SEWER.
IS IT GOING TO BE ON MONDAY'S COUNCIL MEETING OR IS IT GONNA GO TO THE WORK SESSION? WE'LL GO TO THE WORK SESSION.
AND BRIAN, YOU'LL GIVE A COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS AT THAT POINT? UH, YES SIR.
WHEN IT COMES BACK FOR DISCUSSION.
WE'LL, WE'LL HAVE THAT TOGETHER NEXT WORK SESSION, SIR.
AND IF YOU HAVEN'T GOT AN ANSWER FROM UH, CHRIS ON THE CRA, YOU WOULD CALCULATE THE CRA AND PROVIDE THAT IN THE COST BENEFIT, PLEASE? YES, SIR.
LET'S CLOSE THE MEETING COUNSEL.
I KNOW, BUT SINCE HE TALKED WE SHOULD, SO OFFICIALLY, THE MEETING HAS CLOSED AT 9 24, NOT 9 23.