[ AGENDA CITY PLANNING COMMISSION City Hall - Council Chambers 6131 Taylorsville Road April 28, 2022 6:00 P.M. ]
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I SAW I CALLED A MEETING IN THE CITY OF HUBER HEIGHTS PLANNING COMMISSION TO ORDER AT 6 0 7 SECRETARY.
WILL YOU PLEASE CALL THE ROLL MR. JEFFRIES, MISS OP, MS. THOMAS HERE, MRS. VARGO MR. WALTON HERE.
DOES ANYONE ELSE ON THE DICE? THIS IS THE TIME FOR CITIZENS' COMMENTS ON ITEMS NOT PERTAINING OR PERTAINING TO ITEMS, NOT ON THE AGENDA.
UH, SO WEARING A WITNESSES, I ANNOUNCED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE RULES OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION, ANYONE WHO MAY WISH TO SPEAK OR GIVE TESTIMONY REGARDING THE ITEMS ON THE AGENDA THIS EVENING NEEDS TO BE SWORN IN.
SO I ASK EVERYONE TO STAND, RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND AND RESPOND.
DO YOU HEREBY SWEAR OR AFFIRM ON THE THREAT OF PERJURY TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH SO HELP YOU GOD, PLEASE BE SEATED.
I ASK ANYONE WHO DOES COME UP TO SPEAK THIS EVENING TO SIGN IN ON THE SIGN-IN SHEET FOR PROVIDED AND STATE THEIR NAME.
FIRST ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS PENDING BUSINESS, A COMBINED BASIC AND DETAILED DEVELOPMENT PLAN.
THE APPLICANT CAMPBELL BURLING HUBER HEIGHTS, LLC IS REQUESTING APPROVAL OF REZONING TO PLAY IN RESIDENTIAL PR IN A COMBINED, UH, BASIC AND DEVELOPMENT, UH, DETAILED DEVELOPMENT PLAN CBD P 22 DASH 11.
UM, GOOD AFTERNOON, UH, MR. CHAIRPERSON.
UM, SO THIS IS THE, UH, ADDINGTON, UM, DEVELOPMENT AND THE DEVELOPER BROUGHT IT TO MY ATTENTION THAT, UH, THE DIVISION, THE DECISION, MY RECOMMENDATION AND THE SUBSEQUENT DECISION ORDER, UM, EFFECTIVELY PROHIBITS VINYL SIDING, UM, ON THE SINGLE STORY BUILDINGS.
AND THAT WAS NEVER, THAT WAS NOT MY INTENT.
VINYL SIDING WAS NEVER A, UH, CONVERSATION THAT WE HAD AT THE MEETING, UM, WITH THE PLAN BOARD OR PLANNING COMMISSION.
UM, AND SO I'M ASKING FOR THE DECISION RECORD TO BE AMENDED, UM, TO BASICALLY SAY THAT ALL DWELLINGS SHOW HAVE AN AVERAGE OF 50% OF THE SURFACE AREA OF THE FRONT FACADE FINISHED WITH BRICK, UM, WHICH IS SIMILAR AND CONSISTENT WITH, UM, PRETTY MUCH EVERY PLANNED DEVELOPMENT SUBDIVISION THAT WE HAVE PASSED SINCE 2008.
UM, SO IT WASN'T MY INTENTION TO PROHIBIT, UM, UH, BRETT OR VINYL ON THE FIRST, UM, FLOOR.
AGAIN, I DON'T THINK IT EVER CAME UP IN THE CONVERSATION.
AND SO, UH, THE WE'RE ASKING TO DO THIS, UM, TODAY AND THEN THE CITY COUNCIL WILL BE LIKELY, UH, REVISING THE ORDINANCE THAT IS IN FRONT OF THEM TOO.
UM, IF, IF THIS PASSES TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THIS NEW DECISION RECORD, AS WELL AS, UM, IT, I ANTICIPATE THAT THEY WILL BE ONLY APPROVING THE BASIC DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR ADDINGTON AND SENDING IT BACK HERE FOR DETAILED DEVELOPMENT APPROVAL.
THAT'S THAT'S THE FEELING I GOT FROM THE CONVERSATIONS AT THE LAST COUNCIL MEETING.
ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF, WE SHOULD OPEN IT UP TO THE PUBLIC.
ANYONE WISHING TO SPEAK ON THIS 70 CASE.
USUALLY I HAVE MUCH BETTER, MUCH BETTER PREPARED REMARKS, BUT SINCE I ONLY FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS ABOUT TWO HOURS AGO, WE'RE ALL WINGING IT.
SO, UM, THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR QUITE A WHILE.
UM, AS FAR AS ADDINGTON PLACE, IT SPENT OVER FOUR MONTHS.
I REALIZED WHEN I FIRST SAW IT, THAT THEY WERE AGREEING TO SINGLE STORY, FULL BRICK WRAP HOMES, AND I THOUGHT GREAT, THE HOUSES THAT SURROUNDED THOSE PEOPLE ALL HAVE OLD BRICK WRAP HOMES.
THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE ACROSS THE STREET IN THE OAKS, WE HAVE ANYWHERE FROM 25% OF THE TOTAL HOME TO A HUNDRED PERCENT OF THE TOTAL HOME.
SO I THOUGHT THIS IS A GREAT THING.
I THOUGHT MAYBE WE WERE COMING BACK BECAUSE ITEM CHU SAID MULTISTORY, AND WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE COULDN'T BE ANY THREE STORY HOMES OVER THERE THAT WE WERE PERHAPS CHANGING THAT TO CHOOSE STORY.
UM, AS PART OF THE LETTER THAT I SENT TO THE CITY COUNCIL, I TALKED
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ABOUT THE LESSENING OF STANDARDS AND HOW THAT'S HAPPENED THROUGHOUT THE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS.WE'VE GONE FROM A HUNDRED PERCENT TO 50% TO 25% THAT THIS COMES DOWN TO ABOUT SIX AND A QUARTER PERCENT.
WHEN YOU REALLY LOOK AT IT, IF THEY'RE TAKING HALF OF THE FRONT, BUT HALF OF IT IS GARAGE.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE DRAWINGS THAT THEY PUT OUT SO FAR MORE THAN 16 FEET OF THE FRONT OF HIS GARAGE, SO HOW MUCH IS REALLY LEFT TO PUT BRICK OUT AND THERE'S A DOOR AND A WINDOW IN THERE.
SO YOU'RE GOING FROM A HUNDRED PERCENT BRICK, WHICH WAS THE ORIGINAL INTENT OF THE ORDINANCE TO ABOUT SIX AND A QUARTER PERCENT.
I MEAN, KIND OF WHERE DOES IT STOP? AND AGAIN, THE HOUSES SURROUNDING IT THAT YOU WANT TO FIT IN ARE FULL BRICK WRAP HOMES ACROSS THE STREET.
WE HAVE STANDARDS FROM 25% OF ALL FOUR SIDES TO A HUNDRED PERCENT, ALL FOUR SIDES.
SO I GUESS IF WE'RE GOING TO MAKE CHANGES, CAN WE TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT THAT WE'RE ASKING FOR IT TO FIT INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD? AND CAN WE ALSO TAKE OUT THE MULTI-STORY? UM, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT WAS WITH THE OAKS, WE HAD TO DO A TRANSITION ZONE SO THAT THE PEOPLE WHO BACKED UP TO SHADY, OH, THAT HAD SINGLE STORY, FULL BRICK WRAP HOMES, THE HOUSE THAT ABUTTED THEM WERE ALSO SINGLE STORY, FULL BRICK WRAP HOMES.
AND WHEN IT TRANSITIONED TO LESS, THAT WAS WITHIN THE DEVELOPMENT AND NOT IN THE BACKYARDS OF THOSE SABERS.
SO I WOULD APPRECIATE IT IF PERHAPS YOU WOULD CONSIDER THAT AS WELL.
UM, AGAIN, I'M LOOKING AT THIS GOING, I KNEW FOR FOUR MONTHS THAT THEY WERE SAYING FULL BRICK ROUTE.
I UNDERSTAND THAT HE SAID AT THE VERY BEGINNING VINYL, WHICH I UNDERSTOOD TO BE SOME OF THE CHU STORIES, UM, FOR THE UPPER LEVELS.
I'M HOPING THAT YOU WON'T AGREE WITH THIS.
IT'S SUCH A SMALL AMOUNT OF BRICK FOR HUBER HEIGHTS, THE CITY OF BRICK HOMES.
AND I ALSO HOPE THAT YOU'LL TAKE OUT THE MULTISTORY PLEASE AND MAKE IT JUST TWO STORY HOMES THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED.
I LIVED IN THE PROPERTY JUST TO THE NORTH OF THIS PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT AND, UM, YEAH, JUST FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS AND, UH, I WOULD APPRECIATE SOME KIND OF A TRANSITION FROM MY FOUR ACRES OF, I HAVE A FULL BRICK WRAPPED HOUSE.
THERE'S SOME SIDING IN THE FRONT, BUT BASICALLY THE WHOLE BACK FULL FIRST STORY IS, IS BRICK AND CURSE.
I DON'T WANT ANY OF THAT THERE, BUT IF I, SOMETHING IS GOING TO BE THERE, I THINK IT SHOULD MATCH.
UM, I THINK I SAID WANTED TO MENTION, UM, I UNDERSTAND TALKING WITH COMMISSIONER JEFF RAYS, THAT THE LETTERS THAT WE ALL WROTE TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION WERE LATE IN BEING DELIVERED TO YOU.
SO I DON'T KNOW IF REALLY ALL OF THAT INFORMATION WAS CONSIDERED.
UM, IF I CAN RUN THROUGH SIX ITEMS REALLY FAST, THAT MIGHT SOUND FAMILIAR TO YOU.
WHY YOU SAY THAT IT DOESN'T FOLLOW THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, WHICH CALLS FOR SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED HOMES ON MEDIUM TO LARGE LOTS.
THESE LOTS DON'T EVEN MEET THE MINIMUM STANDARDS OF 11 47 0 4.
SO I DON'T THINK YOU COULD CALL THEM MEDIUM TO LARGE.
IF THEY DON'T MEET THE MINIMUM SIZE, THEY'RE LOOKING AT A 20 FOOT BACKYARD INSTEAD OF A 40 FOOT BACKYARD, AN EXTRA 20 FEET WOULD GO A LOT TO HELPING WITH THE TRANSITION SOUTH.
THERE ARE SOME WATER FEATURES TO BE CONSIDERED HERE.
THERE IS A STREAM THAT GOES ALONG THE NORTHERN PART.
THERE'S ALSO WATER IN THE SOUTHERN PART, AND THERE ARE LIVESTOCK THAT GO AND DRINK OUT OF THOSE STREAMS. SO I THINK WE HAVE TO BE CONSIDERATE THAT THIS DEVELOPER DID QUAIL RIDGE.
THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE ALONG ERIN LANE LIVE ON ONE ACRE, LOTS,
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ALL GOT A 20 FOOT BUFFER ZONE, BUT THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE OVER HERE ARE GETTING NOTHING.IN FACT, THEY'RE GETTING LESS THAN HALF OF THE BACKYARD.
THEY BACK UP TO A WOODED LOT AND THAT WOULD LOT I'VE BEEN IN IT.
AND I KNEW THAT THERE'S LOTS OF RACCOONS AND COYOTES ALL THE TIME.
THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO LIVE IN AN URBAN SETTING LIKE THIS ARE NOT REALLY GOING TO WANT IT.
AND THEY'RE A LITTLE 20 FOOT BACK YARDS.
UM, THE DECISION RECORD DID NOT SPECIFICALLY OUTLINE HOW MANY HOUSES, THE TYPE OF HOUSES, THE SIZE OF HOUSES OR THE DETAILS OF THE BERM.
AND I'VE ALWAYS SEEN THAT DONE.
I'VE BEEN TO A LOT OF YOUR MEETINGS.
AND THIS IS KIND OF A VERY BASIC DECISION RECORD.
UM, I TALKED ABOUT THE HOMES IN THE AREA AND WHAT THEY HAVE.
UM, WE TALKED ABOUT THE DESIGN OF IT.
CAN YOU PUT UP THE PLAN? YOU DIDN'T BRING IT.
CAUSE IT'S BASICALLY TWO DOT TWO LONG CUL-DE-SACS AND I KNOW THAT THE FIRE DEPARTMENT SIGNED OFF ON IT, BUT IT'S ONE THING FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT TO SIGN OFF ON IT.
WHAT'S THE BEST PRACTICE ON THE ONE CALLED SAC.
WE HAVE 54 HOMES THAT'S ALLOWED THAT COULD BE SHUT OFF BY ONE MOVING VAN.
I HAD A COUPLE OF A COUPLE, UM, CONCERNS ABOUT THAT BECAUSE YOU WERE USING A DUPLEX LOT, BUT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE SOLD AS TWO PARTS THAT ARE GOING TO EACH BE SOLD INDIVIDUALLY.
SO EACH PERSON WILL HAVE THEIR OWN.
SO THAT LAB SIZE REALLY NEEDS TO BE HAT.
WHAT I BUY IS NOT GOING TO BE A 5,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT.
IF I BOUGHT HALF, I'M ONLY GETTING 2,500 SQUARE FEET.
UM, AND ALSO THE FRONTAGES THAT YOU USED WHEN YOU SAID A 64 OR A 72 FOOT FRONTAGE, FRONTAGE IS MEASURED AT THE FRONT.
SOME OF THOSE WERE MEASURED AT THE BACK.
SO AROUND THAT SACK, I DON'T THINK THEY'RE ALL 72 FOOT FRONT INCHES.
I WILL DOUBLE CHECK, BUT FRONTAGE ON THE CUL-DE-SAC IS MAJORED AT THE BUILDING LINE, NOT AT THE SIDEWALK IT'S BUILDING LINE.
AND WITH ONLY SIX, SIX FEET TO THE LOT LINE, THEY DIDN'T LOOK LIKE THERE WERE ANYWHERE IN THERE.
SO FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN, BECAUSE NORMALLY YOU'LL SEE A CUL-DE-SAC GO IN AND THEN KIND OF CURVE IT AND GO AROUND TO MAKE ACCOMMODATION, TO HIT THOSE MEASUREMENTS.
AND I DIDN'T SEE THOSE DOING THAT.
TIGHT, AS YOU SAID, THEY'RE CORRECT.
AND THEN THERE ARE CONCERNS ABOUT PARKING BECAUSE OF THE TIGHTNESS OF IT BEFORE YOU LEAVE.
MA'AM UM, I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT YOUR SIX AND A QUARTER PERCENT.
I JUST WASN'T ABLE TO FOLLOW THE HAND.
CAN YOU SURE? TELL ME WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
SO IF I'M ONLY GOING TO TAKE ONE SIDE OF IT, THAT'S GOING TO BE 25%.
THE FRONT OF THESE AND THE DRAWINGS ARE MORE THAN HALF GARAGE, MORE THAN SIX IT'S, 16 FEET FOR A GARAGE DOOR SCENE OR TUBER RASH BECAUSE OF THE SIZE OF THE LOT.
AND THE SIZE OF THE BUILDING CAN ONLY BE ABOUT 30 FEET.
SO I HAVE MY 25%, HALF OF THAT IS GOING TO BE TAKEN OFF BECAUSE OF THE GARAGE.
SO I'M DOWN TO 12.5% AND THE BUILDER IS ASKING FOR HALF OF THAT HALF OF 12.5 IS SIX.
SO YOU'VE GONE FROM A HUNDRED PERCENT BRICK WRAP TO SIX AND A QUARTER.
AND OUT OF THAT, 50% OF THAT HALF, YOU ALSO HAVE THE FRONT DOOR AND A WINDOW.
SO HOW MUCH IS LEFT FOR BRETT? THANK YOU SO MUCH.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? NO, THANK YOU.
IS THERE ANYONE ELSE WISHING TO SPEAK ON THIS OUTING CASE, MR. SARAH, WOULD YOU LIKE TO, UM, ELABORATE ON ANY OF THE COMMENTS? UM,
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I MEAN, SO WHICH ONES? YEAH, NO.I MEAN, SO THIS IS, THIS IS A, A, A DIFFERENT DEVELOPMENT THAN, THAN IS WHAT IS ACROSS THE STREET.
UM, THAT IS A, DOES OFFER A DIFFERENT HOUSING, UM, PRODUCT THAN A TRADITIONAL SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED, UH, PRODUCT, UH, HALF IS DETACHED AND HALF ARE ATTACHED.
UM, SHE IS, UH, SHE WOULD CORRECT THAT THE, THE, UM, THAT AREA OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, UH, SPECIFIES OR INDICATES THAT THE HOUSING PRODUCT, UH, SHOULD BE, UH, SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED.
UM, THE DENSITY FALLS WITHIN THE, UH, WITHIN THE CONSENT OR THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS A GUIDE.
UM, UH, IT IS, IT IS NOT A BINDING DOCUMENT SO THAT IF COUNCIL OR PLANNING COMMISSION FEEL THAT THIS TYPE OF PRODUCT IS APPROPRIATE, THEY HAVE THAT FLEXIBILITY TO, TO MAKE THAT DECISION.
UM, THERE ARE WATERWAYS THAT, THAT HAVE CAUSED FLOODING.
UM, THAT WAS THE, THE, UH, BOTH INDIVIDUALS BROUGHT UP AT THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING.
UM, ONE OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS TO BY, UH, THE COUNCIL MEMBER WAS WHETHER WE WAS THAT WE TAKE A LARGER LOOK AT STORMWATER MANAGEMENT IN THAT AREA, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, SORT OF APART FROM THIS PROJECT, BUT TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THIS, UH, AS WELL AS THE OTHER PROPERTIES THAT HAVE EITHER STAY WET OR OCCASIONALLY FLOOD, UH, AND SEE IF THERE ARE IMPROVEMENTS THAT WE CAN MAKE, UM, TO MITIGATE THAT.
SO THAT WILL TAKE SOME A LITTLE BIT OF TIME.
UM, YES, THE, UH, THE BACK THE BACKYARDS ARE, UM, ARE LESS DEEP THEY'RE 20 FEET.
UM, IN SOME CASES THE FENCE ISSUE WAS A NEW ONE THAT WAS BROUGHT UP, UH, AT THE COUNCIL MEETING.
WHAT I HEARD FROM, UH, THE APPLICANT WAS THE SINGLE FAMILY HOUSES WOULD ALLOW REAR FENCING.
UM, BUT THE DUPLEXES, BECAUSE THEY ALL HAVE COMMON MAINTENANCE, UH, THEY HAVE A MAINTENANCE SERVICE.
THEY DIDN'T WANT FENCES IN THE BACKYARD TO IMPEDE MOWING BY THE WHATEVER MOWING SERVICE THEY, UH, THE, THEY, THEY HAVE.
SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO ABOUT THAT.
UM, BUT THE CHANGING OF THE, OF DECISION ORDER FROM, OR THE MODIFICATION DECISION ORDER TO HAVE 50% OF THE SURFACE AREA IS FAIRLY CONSISTENT WITH ALL OF THE OTHER SUBDIVISIONS CARRIAGE TRAILS AND SOME OF THE OTHERS THAT HAVE BEEN, UM, UM, APPROVED ONE, UH, DIFFERENCE THOUGH ON THIS ONE IS THE DEVELOPER ASKS THAT THE GARAGE BE EXCLUDED FROM THE OPENING.
SO MOST OF THE, UM, SUBDIVISIONS HAVE 40% BRICK OR MASONRY PRODUCT, UH, ACROSS IN, AND YOU TAKE IN THE FRONT PLANE, HE TAKEN THE ENTIRE CALCULATION OF THE FRONT PLANE.
THIS DEVELOPER ASKED FOR IT TO BE 50% WITH THE EXCLUSION OF THE GARAGE.
UM, THERE WILL BE SLIGHTLY LESS BRICK MATHEMATICALLY, UM, WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANT TO CONTINUE WITH THAT OR MODIFY TO WHAT'S BEEN PASSED IN PAST PRACTICE, 40% OVER THE ENTIRE PLANE IS A, IS COMPLETELY UP TO YOU.
I DON'T THINK THE DEVELOPER IS GOING TO DIE ON THE HILL, UM, OVER THAT ISSUE, BUT THAT IS WHAT THEY HAD PUT FORWARD WAS 50%.
UM, FRONT FACADE FINISHED WITH BRICK OR STONE.
MASONARY NOT INCLUDING THE GARAGE OPENING.
UM, A FEW OTHER ITEMS THAT CAME UP FROM THE COUNCIL MEETING WAS THERE WAS A DESIRE, UH, TO CREATE A BOULEVARD ENTRANCE.
UH, SO I THINK THE DEVELOPER'S GOING TO COME BACK WITH A BOULEVARD AT ENTRANCE INSTEAD OF THE STRAIGHT ENTRANCE THAT THEY HAVE NOW.
UM, AND, UH, AND YES, THE, THE CALL, THE SAC DIMENSIONS, THEY'RE THE STANDARD CITY CALLED THE SAC DIMENSION.
UM, THE FIRE CODE WOULD SUGGEST THAT THE CALL TO SAC BE BIGGER FOR BASICALLY TO FACILITATE THE TURNING RADIUS OF A, OF A TRUCK.
SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO BACK UP THE WHOLE 1500 FEET.
UM, WHAT WILL LIKELY HAPPEN IS THAT THE TRUCK
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DOES A THREE-POINT TURN.IT WILL TAKE A LITTLE BIT LONGER TO TURN AROUND, BUT IT DOESN'T, IT DOESN'T REALLY IMPEDE THEM GETTING TO THE SITUATION, BUT IT WOULDN'T AFFECT FACT AN AMBULANCE.
IT WOULD JUST IMPACT THE, I THINK YOU, I THINK YOU HAVE A HUNDRED FOOT LADDER TRUCK, UH, IT WOULD, IT WOULD IMPACT THAT ONE, BUT IT WOULD NOT IMPACT, UM, ANY OF YOUR EMS VEHICLES OR YOUR SMALL PUMPERS, ANY OTHER DISCUSSION.
UM, I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF THE PAST PRACTICE OF 40% AND FORGET ABOUT THE BARRAGE THAT, THAT, THAT TO DENY HIS REQUEST, THEN RAJ BE INCLUDED.
ANYTHING SO WITH THAT, IF OUR CUL-DE-SAC IS NOT THE STANDARD SIZE, WHY DID THE FIRE DEPARTMENT AGREE TO THE SIZE? IT IS.
SO THE CUL-DE-SAC IS THE STATE, THE CITIES, IT MEETS THE CITY SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS, AND IT'S A STANDARD 76 FOOT RADIUS, UH, OR DIAMETER RADIUS RADIUS, UM, CALLED A SACK, WHICH IS CALLED OUT BY THE, UM, BY OUR SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS.
THE FIRE CODE IN THE APPENDIX HAS A DIFFERENT WAYS TO MITIGATE LONG RUNS.
UH, ONE OF THEM IS A 96 FOOT TURNING RADIUS CALLED A SACK.
THE OTHER COULD BE A, A THREE LIKE A HAMMERHEAD, UM, AT THE END BASICALLY TO FACILITATE AN EASIER TURNAROUND OF THE TRUCK.
UM, THE ENGINEER AND THE FIRE CHIEF GOT TOGETHER AND BOTH DECIDED THAT THIS WAS ACCEPTABLE AS, AS, AS THE STANDARD CITY CALLED THE SAC.
AND THE FIRE CHIEF WAS FINE WITH IT AS FAR AS CHIEF AND FINE WITH IT, I'M FINE WITH IT.
BUT, UM, I, IF THE BUILDER HAS ALREADY INDICATED THAT HE IS LOOKING AT ARE WILLING TO DO THE BOULEVARD ENTRANCE, I WOULD SUGGEST THAT WE PUT IT INTO THE DECISION RECORD.
SO, UM, THEY ARE EXPLORING THAT IT CAME UP IN THE, UH, IN THE COUNCIL MEETING.
UM, I ANTICIPATE THAT THAT WILL BE A CONDITION IMPOSED BY COUNCIL POST IN POST.
WELL THEN WHY DON'T WE JUST PUT IT IN THE DECISION RECORD NOW, SINCE WE'RE SENDING IT UP TO COUNCIL, UM, I'LL LEAVE THAT UP TO YOU, BUT IT WAS NEVER ANY OF THE PLANS THAT WE REVIEWED.
SO I THINK WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS THAT, THAT THERE WILL BE A BOULEVARD THAT IS REQUIRED.
THEY'RE GOING TO COME BACK WITH A SET OF DETAILED DEVELOPMENT PLANS AND WE WILL NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY, SO, UH, WE CAN DO THAT, BUT THAT WAS NEVER PRESENTED TO US, WHICH IS WHY I'M HESITANT TO REQUIRE IT AFTER THE FACT, ESPECIALLY SINCE THEY'RE NOT HERE SAYING YAY OR NAY, I THOUGHT FOR SURE, WE HAD CONVERSATION AROUND ADDING A BOULEVARD AND MAKING IT STRAIGHT ACROSS.
I THOUGHT WE HAD THAT CONVERSATION AT OUR MEETING THAT WE WOULD, WE WANTED THE BOULEVARD, WE DISCUSSED THAT, BUT I DON'T REMEMBER THE OUTCOME OF IT I'LL HAVE MY NOTES WITH, WELL, IT WAS, IT WAS DECIDED THAT IT, WE KNEW WE WEREN'T GONNA GET A DROP LANE THAT WE THOUGHT THAT THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WE THOUGHT ABOUT HAVING, BUT ENGINEER AND FIRE DIDN'T SEE THE NEED FOR THAT.
SO THAT'S, I THINK THAT'S WHY WE YEAH.
DISCUSSION, BUT I DON'T REMEMBER IT GO.
I KNOW WE TALKED ABOUT A DROP LANE, WHICH IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN BECAUSE THE WIDTH OF THE ROAD, CORRECT.
WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS THAT THE IT'LL BE RE STRIPED, UM, TO INCLUDE TWO LEFT TURN LANES, UM, BECAUSE THE, THE INTERSECTION HAS ALREADY BEEN IMPROVED AND THERE'S NO NEED FOR FURTHER IMPROVEMENTS, BUT IT WILL BE RE STRIPED.
SO THAT THERE'S A TURN LANE LEFT TURN INTO THE OAKS LEFT, TURN INTO ADDINGTON.
UM, I THINK THE BOULEVARD DISCUSSION, UM, WAS MORE ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT THE ENTRANCE TO THIS DEVELOPMENT MIRRORS, THE FEEL, LOOK AND FEEL OF THE OAKS ENTRANCE, NOT NECESSARILY AS A SEPARATE SEPARATION, UM, BECAUSE OF THE BOULEVARDS REALLY DON'T PROVIDE THAT SEPARATION THAT'S REQUIRED FOR THE FIRE CODE.
UM, THAT'S, IT'S NOT THAT BIG OF BIG OF NORTH OF THE BOULEVARD.
THIS IS MORE ABOUT ESSENTIALLY A SMALL LANDSCAPE MEDIAN STRIP, WHICH IS WHAT IS THE OAKS.
UM, IF THE GABLES OF, IS THERE ANY INDICATION AND THE FIRE DEPARTMENT WILL WANT LOW LANDSCAPING? UM, MAINLY SO IT DOESN'T SCRATCH UP THEIR APPARATUS WHEN THEY COME IN.
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SORRY, THERE, UM, WHEN IT COMES TO THE ENTRANCE, BECAUSE I LIVE RIGHT NEAR THE ENTRANCE OF THE OAKS, THERE'S BEEN SEVERAL TIMES WHEN MY HUSBAND AND I HAD TO GO OUT AND DIRECT TRAFFIC, BECAUSE SOMETHING HAS HAPPENED ON ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER THAT'S BLOCKED IT, SCHOOL BUS BROKE DOWN.SO WE HAVE TO GO OUT AND, YOU KNOW, TAKE TURNS, LETTING PEOPLE GO IN AND OUT.
SO A BOULEVARD BOULEVARD ENTRANCE DOES PROVIDE SOME SEPARATION.
YOU CAN'T BLOCK THE WHOLE, NO, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS IT DOESN'T IT DOESN'T MITIGATE.
BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE FIRE CODE, I THINK WE'RE GETTING HIJACKED A LITTLE BIT ON THE TURNING RADIUS OF THE CUL-DE-SAC.
MY POINT WAS THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO LIVE ON ONE, ONE STREET.
YOU CAN'T HAVE A DEVELOPMENT WITH MORE THAN 30 HOMES IN IT WITHOUT REQUIRING A SUB SECOND ENTRANCE, BUT YOU CAN HAVE A STREET WITH 54 WITH ONE ENTRANCE THEN BEFORE THERE WAS ANOTHER STREET.
AND WE COULD LOOK AT THE DRAWING RIGHT NOW BECAUSE IT, WE CALLED IT A WINEGLASS, SMALL STEM, TWO LONG STREETS BEFORE THEY JOINED.
AND IN FACT HAD A MIDDLE STREET.
SO THERE WERE ALTERNATIVE WAYS OUT.
IT WASN'T AS EASY TO GET PARKED.
SO IT'S NOT THE TURNING RADIUS OF THE CUL-DE-SAC, IT'S THE NUMBER OF HOMES THAT COULD GET ISOLATED BY SOMEBODY AT THE BEGINNING, HAVING A MOVING TRUCK FOR FOUR HOURS.
HOW ARE YOU GOING TO GET ALL THE OTHER CARBS OUT WITHOUT SOME COORDINATION AMONG THE NEIGHBORS, WHICH DOESN'T ALWAYS HAPPEN.
AND IF A LOT OF CARS ARE PARKED ON THE STREET, THAT CAUSES ANOTHER ISSUE YOU HAD SAID, HALF OF THEM ARE SINGLE FAMILY.
I THINK IT'S 33 AND 29 AND 68.
SO IT'S 29 SINGLE FAMILY IN THE FRONT AND 68 DUPLEXES IN THE BACK.
IF YOU WANT TO CONSIDER A BUILDING, YOU'RE LOOKING AT BUILDINGS, BUT THOSE ARE REALLY COMPRESSED IN THE BACK.
THE OTHER THING ABOUT THE ENTRANCE, I REMEMBER THE MEETING WHEN YOU WERE ALL TALKING ABOUT THE BOULEVARD AND WHAT IT MIGHT DO, AND YOU WERE ALSO TALKING ABOUT MIRRORING THE ENTRANCE.
AND I THINK MS. SPARGO, THAT WAS YOUR COMMENT.
WOULD THE MONUMENTS MIRROR EACH OTHER SO THAT IT WOULD HAVE A COMPLETE LOOK IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD? AND IF THERE'S ANY WAY THAT COULD BE DONE, I'M SURE IT WOULD BE APPRECIATED BECAUSE IT WOULD CREATE A BETTER LOOK IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
RIGHT NOW THEY'RE LOOKING AT TWO PILLARS, WHICH REALLY DOESN'T MIRROR THE MONUMENT OF THE OAKS.
AND IF THEY DIDN'T WANT TO DO WE HAVE DUAL MONUMENTS, IF THEY DIDN'T WANT TO DO DUAL, EVEN JUST ONE, WHICH SHOWS SOME CONSISTENCY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, WELL, THIS IS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT PRODUCT AND A DIFFERENT SUBDIVISION.
THEREFORE, I DON'T THINK THAT THEY NEED TO BE IDENTICAL OR EVEN CLOSE TO EACH OTHER.
HOWEVER, I DO LIKE THE IDEA OF THE, I LIKE THE SIX FOOT MONUMENTS AND THE IDEA FOR IDENTIFICATION PURPOSES.
AND I THINK THE IDEA THAT FENCE DISCUSSION ALSO GOT HIJACKED BECAUSE I KNOW THEY DON'T WANT THE INDIVIDUALS TO HAVE FENCES BECAUSE THEN IT WOULD BE HARD TO MOW IT AS A UNIT.
WHAT WAS BEING TALKED ABOUT WAS A FENCE TO THE BACK BETWEEN THE FOREST DID AREA, OH, A PERIMETER FENCING, A PERIMETER FENCE THING THAT COULD BE MAINTAINED ON BOTH SIDES BY THEM, ESPECIALLY IF THERE WAS SOME BUFFER ZONE THAT WOULD HELP KEEP SOME OF THE WILDLIFE FROM COMING IN TO THEM.
AND THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE OVER THERE, I CAN SEE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT TRESPASSING.
THEY HAVE BEAUTIFUL AREAS, LOVELY STREAMS AND WOODS AND TRAILS THAT THEY GO BACK AND DO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO BACK THERE.
THEY CAN DISCHARGE FIREARMS AND DO EVERYTHING ELSE THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO FIND OTHER PEOPLE BACK THERE.
AND I CAN TELL YOU A PERSONAL EXPERIENCE FROM ANOTHER FRIEND OF MINE WHO HAS LEFT.
YOU WERE HEIGHTS BECAUSE OF A BIG DEVELOPMENT THAT CAME IN AND PEOPLE WERE COMING OVER INTO HER BEAUTIFUL YARD AND HAVING PICNICS.
AND IT WAS STRESSFUL FOR THEM BECAUSE THE POLICE WOULDN'T COME OUT UNLESS THEY AGREED TO PRESS CHARGES.
THESE ARE THEIR NEIGHBORS, THEY JUST DON'T WANT THEM IN THEIR BACKYARD.
SO SOME KIND OF BUFFERING TO STOP THAT FROM HAPPENING WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED.
SO I THINK THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE ANOTHER BITE AND THAT APPLE, WHEN THIS COMES BACK FOR THE DETAILED DEVELOPMENT PLAN BOOK, THE ENTRANCE SIGNAGE, AND, YOU KNOW, THE, THAT KIND OF FENCING DISCUSSION, BECAUSE I THINK IT IS THE ANTENNA COUNCIL TO SEND US BACK FOR THE DETAILED.
UM, I DO WANT TO ADDRESS ONE COMMENT.
YOU HAD TALKED ABOUT THE, THE DECISION ORDER, UM, BREVITY.
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NOW STARTING TO DO IS, UM, BASICALLY INCORPORATE THE ACTUAL PLANS AS THE DECISION ORDER AND THE PLANS INCLUDE ALL OF THAT DETAIL.UM, SO IT'S INCORPORATED IN, SO IF YOU EVER WANT TO SEE WHAT WAS APPROVED, WE'LL HAVE THE MYLAR THAT YOU CAN, YOU CAN JUST HAVE, WE, I ACTUALLY WAS HERMAN AND I CAME UP TO LOOK AT THE DETAILED DEVELOPMENTS, UM, PRIOR TO THE MEETING.
IN FACT, I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING YET ON A SINGLE FAMILY, DETACHED HOME, NOT A DRAWING, NOT A SKETCH NOTHING.
AND WHEN I LOOK AT THE SPECIFICS IN THE ORDINANCE FOR THE OAKS, I MEAN, EVERYTHING IS SPELLED OUT WHAT YOU CAN HAVE AND WHAT YOU CAN'T HAVE 10 YEARS FROM.
NOW, IF SOMETHING CHANGES, AM I GOING TO BE ABLE TO COME AND LOOK AT THIS SMILE, LEARN, FIGURE IT ALL OUT, RIGHT? OR DO WE NEED TO HAVE IT SPELLED OUT WHERE WE CAN REFERENCE IT? WHENEVER? I THINK PART OF THE ISSUE, AGAIN, THE BUILDER, I DON'T THINK WAS FULLY CHOSEN ON THIS ONE YET.
AND I UNDERSTAND THAT HE HASN'T BOUGHT THE PROPERTY YET.
AND HOW MUCH TIME AND MONEY DOES HE WANT TO INVEST IN THE DRAWINGS, BUT THERE'S QUESTIONS TO BE ANSWERED.
SO I THINK THIS, THIS, THIS PROBABLY SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN A COMBINED CASE TO BEGIN WITH.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, LESSON LEARNED, UH, AND WE'LL, WE'LL DO BETTER NEXT TIME.
SO I THINK WHAT WE HEARD ON THE DAYAS AGREED TO WOULD BE GOING TO A BACK OR STICKING WITH THE 40%, UH, HOW WAS THAT WORD AT 40% OVERALL, TOTAL OF THE FACING 40% OF THE FRONT FACADE PREPPER? YES.
DOES THAT NEED TO BE IN OUR PLANNING COMMISSION DECISION RECORDS? YEAH.
SO I'M ON THIS DECISION RECORD.
IF THAT'S THE DIRECTION YOU WANT TO GO, IT SHOULD READ DWELLING, SHELL, SHELL, UH, JOLENE.
SO AVERAGE 40% OF THE SURFACE AREA, THE FRONT FACADE FINISHED WITH BRICK OR STONE MASONRY PRODUCTS, PERIOD.
ARE YOU LADIES GOOD WITH THAT? YES.
SO THE ONLY THING WE'RE CHANGING IS 40 INSTEAD OF 50, AND WE'RE TAKING THE, NOT INCLUDING THE GARAGE, THE REST OF GROUPING IS SAYING.
AND OTHER THING THAT IS, I THINK THAT IS CONSISTENT WITH WHAT HAS BEEN, UM, PAST IN PREVIOUS SUBDIVISIONS.
UM, BUT AGAIN, THIS IS MY FIRST ONE.
BUT TALKING TO DON THAT'S I THINK CORRECT.
AND WE'LL DEAL WITH THE OTHERS WHEN THEY COME BACK.
AND THEN THE OTHER DETAILS, AS FAR AS THE FENCING AND THE OTHER ITEMS THAT WERE, THAT HAVE COME UP, I THINK WE CAN THAT THE MONUMENTATION FOR THE SIGNAGE, THAT SHOULD BE THE DETAILED PART, SINCE THIS WAS A COMBINED BASIC AND DETAILED OR HOW YOU SEEM FAIRLY CERTAIN THAT IT'S GOING TO COME BACK TO US, WHETHER THE DETAIL.
BUT IT MAY NOT, THERE IS A 90% CHANCE IT'S COMING NOW.
I'M NOT, I CAN'T, I CAN'T BE CERTAIN THAT, THAT THE TEA LEAVES MAY CHANGE, UH, COUNSEL, BUT THROUGH THE COURSE OF THE DISCUSSION AND THE FACT THAT WE ALREADY CHANGE ONE OF THE AMENDED, THE DRAFT ORDINANCE TO ONLY MAKE IT THE BASIC IT'S COMING, I THINK IT'S COMING BACK.
I WOULD BE SURPRISED IF IT DIDN'T WHAT YOUR RECOMMENDATION WILL BE.
THAT WAS WHAT COUNCIL CHANGED.
SO COUNCIL WANTS IT TO CUT TO COME BACK.
IS THERE A MOTION FOR APPROVAL OF THE APPLICATION BY CAMPBELL BURLING FOR REZONING AND A COMBINED BASIC AND DETAILED DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR PROPERTY LOCATED ON THE EAST SIDE OF BELLE FONTANE ROAD AND SOUTH OF CHAMBERSBURG ROAD FURTHER IDENTIFIED AS PARCEL NUMBER SUB P 70 0 3 9 0 8 0 1 2 6 OF THE MONTGOMERY COUNTY OHIO'S RECORDERS, OHIO RECORDER'S OFFICE ZONING CASE, CB DP, 22 DASH 11 IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF S UH, STABS AND MORAN AND DATED MARCH 22ND, 2022.
AND THE RE AMENDED PLANNING COMMISSION DECISION RECORD ATTACHED TO THERE TOO.
SO MOVED BY MS. THOMAS, IS THERE A SECOND, SECOND BY MS. VARGOS SECRETARY, WILL YOU PLEASE CALL THE ROLL?
[00:35:04]
YES.UH, WHAT'S NEXT FOR THE APPLICANT? UM, WELL, WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS ON MAY 9TH.
UM, AND THEN IF, UH, ASSUMING THAT IT GOES POSITIVELY IN THEIR WAY, UM, THEY WILL SUBMIT THE DETAILED DEVELOPMENT PLANS AFTER THEY MAKE ALL OF THE, UH, UH, REVISIONS THAT COUNCIL WILL BE DIRECTING THEM TO MAKE.
AND SO I WOULD ANTICIPATE, WE WILL SEE THAT AT OUR JUNE 14 MEETING OR SOME SOMEWHERE THERE.
NEXT ITEM UNDER, UH, ON THE AGENDA IS NEW BUSINESS AND HEARING NONE WE'LL MOVE ON TO ADDITIONAL BUSINESS, WHICH WE HAVE NONE APPROVAL OF MINUTES, WHICH WE HAVE NONE, UH, REPORTS IN CALENDAR REVIEW, UM, ANYTHING COMING UP SITES, POSSIBLY THIS, UM, DEPENDING AGAIN, WHAT HAPPENS MAY 9TH, CAUSE WE MISSED A COUNCIL MEETING.
UH, THE GABLES WILL BE HERE ON THE 10TH FOR THEIR DETAILED DEVELOPMENT PLAN.
UH, AND IF, UH, IF THE VOTE GOES THEIR WAY AT COUNCIL MEETING, WE'LL HEAR THE CASE ON THE 10TH.
UM, AND, UH, SO YOU'LL GET MY STAFF REPORT NEXT WEEK, UM, WITH, UH, SOME, THE ASSUMPTION THAT COUNCIL IS GOING TO APPROVE THAT, BUT IF THEY DON'T THEN WE'LL HAVE SOME FREE TIME.
UM, THE OTHER THING IS THERE WILL BE A INFORMAL REVIEW OF, WILL THAT BE THIS THE 10TH YEAH.
OF A DETAILED CHANGE OF A DETAILED DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR BROAD REACH.
UM, THE BANK IS NO LONGER THE BANK.
UH, AND SO THEY ARE COMING IN WITH, UH, A NEW CONCEPT FOR THAT CORNER.
SO WE'RE WAITING TO GET, UM, UH, ALL OF THE DOCUMENTS, BUT THEY WANT TO COME IN AS FOR AN INFORMAL REVIEW FOR THAT, UH, BROAD RETURN TAYLORSVILLE AND OLD TROY PIKE, THE BROAD REACH THAT WE APPROVE, THE BIG APARTMENT COMPLEXES AND THE SUPPOSED TO HAVE THE MEDICAL FRONT EDGE AND THE RETAIL FRONTAGE ON THE CORNER DOWN HERE.
THAT'S, THAT'S NOT, WHAT'S IN THE, IT'S NOT WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED NOW.
ANYTHING ELSE TO BE BROUGHT UP IN FRONT OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND THE ONE? UM, JUST TO REMIND YOU, I WILL NOT BE HERE FOR THE MAY 10TH.
WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE SKYPED IN, UM, WE'LL PASS ON THAT? I'M PRETTY SURE I MIGHT BE OTHERWISE, UH, BUSY.
THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING OUT IN SUCH A SHORT NOTICE AND UH, EVERYBODY ENJOY THEIR EVENING.