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OKAY.

[00:00:04]

YEP.

[ AGENDA CITY PLANNING COMMISSION City Hall - Council Chambers 6131 Taylorsville Road November 10, 2020 6:00 P.M. ]

WE SHALL CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER, UH, THE CITY OF HEBREW PLANNING COMMISSION.

SECRETARY, WE PLEASE CALL THE ROLL.

ALL RIGHT, MS. .

DEAR MS. THOMAS BEAR, MS. FARGO HERE, MR. JEFFRIES, MR. WALTON, MR. WALLACE, AND THEN THERE ANY OPENING REMARKS OR COMMENTS BY THE COMMISSIONERS WITH THAT WE'LL MOVE ON TO CITIZENS COMMENTS.

SO THIS IS THE APPROPRIATE TIME FOR ANY CITIZEN COMMENTS, NOT PERTAINING TO MEETINGS OR PERTAINING TO ITEMS ON THE AGENDA TONIGHT.

SO WE'LL MOVE TO THE SWEARING OF THE WITNESSES.

IF I COULD ASK THAT, UH, ANYBODY IN ATTENDANCE, PLEASE STAND, RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND AND ANNOUNCED IT IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE RULES OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND ANYONE WISHING TO SPEAK AND GIVE TESTIMONY REGARDING THE ITEMS ON THIS AGENDA THIS EVENING WOULD BE SWORN IN.

SO I ASK EVERYONE TO STAY AND RAISE THE RIGHT HAND TO RESPOND.

I DO TO THE FOLLOWING OATH.

DO YOU HEREBY SWEAR OR AFFIRM ON THE THREAT OF PERJURY TO TELL THE WHOLE TRUTH, TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD.

WE WOULD ASK THAT ANYONE WISHING TO SPEAK TONIGHT ON ANY OF THE AGENDA ITEMS STEPPED TO THE PODIUM AND SPELL THEIR NAME FOR THE RECORD.

SO WITH THAT, WE'LL JUMP TO PENDING BUSINESS, WHICH I SHOW NONE.

IS THAT RIGHT? YUP.

ALL RIGHT.

SO WE'LL MOVE ON THEN TO NEW BUSINESS ITEM A, SO A MAJOR CHANGE OF THE APPLICANT, KOHLER AND WINGS REQUESTING APPROVAL OF A MAJOR CHANGE TO THE BASIC DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR THE OAKS.

SO SHE RIDES LOCATED AT THE CORNER OF FISHBERG AND BELL FOUNTAIN ROADS.

AND IN CASE 20 DASH 31 VERSUS NOT .

OKAY.

SORRY ABOUT THAT.

GOOD EVENING.

THE FIRST CASE TONIGHT IS A MAJOR CHANGE TO THE BASIC DEVELOPMENT PLAN OUT AT THE OAKS OF HUBER HEIGHTS.

THIS PROJECT IS AT THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF FITCHBURG AND BELL FOUNTAIN ROAD.

UH, THIS IS, UM, IF YOU REMEMBER THE PARCEL TO THE DIRECTLY TO THE WEST IS CURRENTLY UNDER CONSTRUCTION AS THE OAKS SECTION NINE AND THE REST OF THE OAK SUBDIVISION HAS BEEN COMPLETED AND BUILT OUT.

SO THERE ARE 14.18 ACRES HERE THAT, UH, UH, HAS THERE, THERE'S A HISTORY BEHIND IT THAT THIS PROPERTY CURRENTLY IS A APPROVED FOR A CHURCH.

SO THIS WAS ORIGINALLY PART OF THE OAKS OVERALL SUBDIVISION, UM, WHICH I WILL HEAR IS THAT GOES BACKWARDS.

THIS IS THE ORIGINAL MASTER PLAN THAT THEY CAME UP WITH TO HAVE A DEVELOPMENT OF ALL THE SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL.

AND THEN AT THE VERY FAR NORTH HAD THE ESTATE LOTS.

UM, AT THAT POINT IN TIME, THIS, UH, PLAN GOT APPROVED AND THEY STARTED MOVING FORWARD WITH SECTION ONE.

UM, AT, UH, ANOTHER POINT IN TIME, THE, UH, PLAN WAS REVISED TO ALLOW FOR THE SALE OF THIS CORNER PIECE OFF TO A CHURCH, THIS CHURCH, WHY DON'T YOU BUILD A DISLOCATION AND A PLANNING COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL DID APPROVE THIS MAJOR CHANGE AT THAT TIME TO ALLOW FOR THAT CHURCH PROPERTY.

UM, AND THEN, UH, UH, AFTER THIS TIME THERE WAS A COUPLE MORE SECTIONS THAT WERE BEING BUILT IN THE OAKS.

THE, UM, THE DEVELOPER CAME BACK AND REQUESTED APPROVAL OF ANOTHER CHANGE TO ALLOW FOR SOME SMALLER LOTS IN A DIFFERENT BUILDING STYLE AT ONE OF THE FUTURE AREAS, PLANNING, COMMISSION RECOMMENDED DENIAL OF THAT, AND THEN THEY PULLED THEIR APPLICATION.

SO IT NEVER DID GO THROUGH CITY COUNCIL.

UM, AT THAT TIME, THE REQUEST IS TO HAVE, UH, TWO STREETS, UM, BASICALLY A LOOP STREET THAT COMES OFF BELL FOUNTAIN IN FITCHBURG, AND THEN A CENTER STREET THAT, UH, MAKES A KIND OF A GRID PATTERN.

YEAH.

FOR THE LOTS.

UM, THIS, THE APPLICATION CAME IN AFTER SECTION NINE HAD BEEN DEVELOPED AM IN THE PROCESS OF

[00:05:01]

CONSTRUCTION.

SO THERE'S NO OPPORTUNITY TO CONNECT TO ANY OTHER PORTION OF THE OAKS.

SO THIS COULD BE LOOKED AT AS SEPARATE FROM EVERYTHING ELSE BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE THAT CONNECTION.

UM, SO WHAT THE REQUESTS IS IS TO BUILD 46 SINGLE FAMILY, RESIDENTIAL LOTS, ALONG WITH THAT, THERE'LL BE TWO OPEN SPACE, LOTS.

ONE OF THOSE WOULD BE FOR STORM WATER DETENTION.

AND THE OTHER IS A OPEN SPACE IN THE CENTER THERE FOR A PARK LIKE SETTING, UH, STREETS ARE PROPOSED TO BE PUBLIC, UH, WHICH WOULD HAVE YOUR STANDARDS.

TYPICAL STREET SECTION.

THERE ARE UTILITIES ALREADY, UH, IN THE AREA FOR THERE'S A SANITARY SEWER STUB THAT COMES OUT OF THE NORTHERN PORTION OF THE OAKS DOWN, UH, RIGHT ABOUT, UH, UH, JUST TO THE NORTH OF WHERE THE RETENTION BASIN, UH, IS PROPOSED.

AND THERE'S ALSO A PUBLIC WATER THAT'S OUT ON FISHBURG ROAD THAT THEY WOULD CONNECT INTO.

UH, SO PUBLIC UTILITIES ARE THERE.

AS I MENTIONED, STORM WATER STORM WATER THAT, UH, THEY WOULD COLLECT INTO, UH, STORM STRUCTURES AND ROUTE THROUGH THE DETENTION PROPOSED DETENTION BASIN.

UM, SO, UH, WITH THIS PLAN, THEY ARE ALSO PROPOSING TO CREATE A BUFFER ALONG THE, UH, NORTH SIDE, UH, WITH SOME MOUNDING AND SOME VEGETATION TO BUFFER FROM THE EXISTING HOME SITES.

UH, THAT'S ON A, A 25 FOOT, UH, UH, BUFFER AREA AND A SETBACK.

SO THE, UH, THE PROPOSAL FOR THE LOTS THEMSELVES, THE LOTS, UH, RANGE THERE IN GENERAL FROM 55 TO 60 FOOT FRONTAGE IS, AND THE DEPTHS RANGE FROM 107 TO 136 FEET IN GENERAL.

THERE'S A COUPLE THAT ARE A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN THAT.

SETBACKS ARE PROPOSED TO BE 20 FOOT MINIMUM FRONT YARDS AND REAR YARDS RANGING FROM 15 TO TWENTY-FIVE FOOT MINIMUMS. IN GENERAL, ALL THE EXTERIOR LOTS ARE PROPOSED TO HAVE THE 25 FOOT SETBACKS.

IT'S THE INTERIOR ONES THAT ARE PROPOSED TO HAVE THE 15, BUT THEY HAVE A PARK BEHIND HIM.

SO, UH, TECHNICALLY THEY WOULD HAVE FURTHER SPACE BEHIND THEM.

THEY WOULD JUST OWN ONLY TO THAT CERTAIN POINT, UH, WHERE THE, UH, THE PARK SITS.

SO THEIR HOUSE COULD GO BACK TO 15 FEET FROM THAT REAR PROPERTY.

UM, SO THEY DID PROVIDE SOME PROPOSED BUILDING ELEVATIONS.

UH, THERE'S A, UH, TWO DESIGN OPTIONS HERE SHOWING, UH, SOME OF THE DIFFERENT, UH, UM, UH, VINYL SIDING, SYNTHETIC CEDAR SHAKES AND STONE VENEERS, AND THEN ROOFING MATERIALS WOULD BE DIMENSIONAL SHAPES.

SO TO GET THROUGH SOME OF WHAT THAT PROPOSED PROPOSAL IS.

SO THAT IS WHAT, UH, THEY ARE PROPOSING TO DO.

I'LL GO BACK A LITTLE BIT, UH, BACKUP TO THE HISTORY, UM, AS THIS WAS ORIGINALLY PART OF THE OVERALL OAKS MASTER PLAN.

UM, AND I I'LL MENTION THAT THIS TIME AS WELL, WE HAVE RECEIVED, UM, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FINAL COUNT WAS AROUND 20, UM, EMAILS OR PHONE MESSAGES, UM, STATING THEIR, UH, EITHER SUPPORT OR CONCERNS FOR THIS PROJECT.

I BELIEVE THEY WERE ALL WITH CONCERNS.

I DON'T THINK THERE WERE ANY LETTERS OF SUPPORT IN THERE.

UM, THE ITEMS THAT WERE BROUGHT UP RANGED FROM DRAINAGE, TRAFFIC SIZE OF LOT, UH, BUILDING MATERIALS, UM, WHAT WILL THIS DO TO MY PROPERTY VALUES? UH, THOSE WERE THE, IN GENERAL, THE QUESTIONS THAT WERE BROUGHT UP, UM, AS I MENTIONED TO ANSWER THINGS LIKE DRAINAGE, THEY, IN THE DETAILED PLAN PHASE, THEY WOULD FOLLOW THE CITY'S CODE TO ROUTE THE STORM WATER THROUGH THE DETENTION BASIN.

AND, UM, SO THAT THERE WOULD NOT BE ANY FLOODING ISSUES, UH, FOR ANY OF THE EXISTING LOTS, THIS, UH, AREA FLOWS FROM WEST EAST.

SO WHERE THEY HAVE PLACED THAT AREA FOR A DETENTION BASIN IS THE PROPER PLACE.

IT'S THE LOW END OF THE SITES.

UM, SO THAT, UH, THE SIZE OF IT LOOKS PROPER FROM INITIAL WALKS.

SO, UH, DON'T HAVE ISSUES WITH THAT, UH, TRAFFIC, UM, W THIS WAS, I GUESS, ORIGINALLY APPROVED FOR SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL.

SO WHILE THEIR PROPOSAL IS FOR, UM, A DENSER PRO OR A MORE DENSE PRODUCT, UM, THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC GOING ON BELL FOUNTAIN OR FISHBURG

[00:10:01]

ROAD, THAT'S A DIFFERENCE IS NOT SIGNIFICANT THE LOCATIONS OF THOSE DRIVES BECAUSE THEY CANNOT CONNECT TO ANY OF THE EXISTING.

UM, THERE, THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE THOSE TWO ACCESS POINTS AND THE CURB CUTS ARE FAR AND FAR ENOUGH AWAY FROM THE INTERSECTION PER OUR STANDARDS OF DESIGN NOW TO THE LOT SIZE.

UM, AND, UH, SOME OF THE BUILDING MATERIALS ORIGINALLY THIS, UH, UH, PLAN WAS APPROVED FOR, UM, 85 FOOT LOTS, UH, AND ALSO WITH THAT, UM, MINIMUM LOT AREA OF 12,000 SQUARE FEET, MINIMUM LOT DEPTH OF 142 FEET MINIMUM FRONTAGE, UM, AT THE SETBACK, AS I MENTIONED, 85 FEET, MINIMUM SETBACKS, THE FRONT YARD, 25 FEET, 40 FOOT REAR, 10 FOOT SIDE YARDS FOR THE BUILDING MATERIALS.

UM, I INCLUDED IN THE PACKET.

YEAH.

UH, THERE, THEY HAD DIFFERENT SETUPS FOR WHAT WAS ON THE PERIMETER, UM, AS OPPOSED TO WHAT'S ON THE INTERIOR.

SO WHAT YOU WOULD SEE AS YOU'RE DRIVING DOWN THE STREETS, I HAD MORE OF A MASONRY REQUIREMENT THAN SOME OF THE INTERIOR LOTS.

SO 50% OF THE DWELLING HAS BEEN ON THE PERIMETER, LOTS, UH, SHALL HAVE AT LEAST 50% MASONRY ON THE EXTERIOR OF THE HOUSE.

AND THEN, UM, THERE WAS A SIZE REQUIREMENTS AS WELL.

UM, AT LEAST 90% OF ALL SINGLE STORY RANCH DWELLING SHALL HAVE A MINIMUM FLOOR AREA OF 1600 SQUARE FEET.

UM, AND THEN TWO STORIES, 2000 SQUARE FEET.

UH, SO, UH, THERE WERE THOSE REQUIREMENTS.

WELL, I'M LOOKING AT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE PLANS.

WELL, THE, THE DIFFERENCES ARE, UM, THE, THE WIDTH OF THE LOTS, THE DEPTH OF THE LOTS.

UM, YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO GET THIS LAYOUT TO WORK WITH 140 FOOT DEPTH BLOT AND 85 FOOT WIDTHS, UM, TO BE ABLE TO GET THAT 25 FOOT FRONT YARD, 40 FOOT REAR YARD, UH, THIS IS PROPOSING 20 FOOT FRONT YARDS.

UM, WE DON'T HAVE 20 FOOT FRONT YARD SETBACKS.

I DON'T THINK ANYWHERE IN THE CITY FOR SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL, THAT DOESN'T MEET ANY OF OUR STANDARD, UM, RESIDENTIAL CODES, SOME OF THE REAR YARDS.

UM, WE DO HAVE 25 FOOT REAR YARD SETBACKS IN CERTAIN SUBDIVISIONS.

SO THAT'S BEEN DONE BEFORE.

UH, THIS IS, UH, UP AGAINST SOME EXISTING LOTS THAT, UM, DO HAVE THE 40 FOOT.

SO, UM, AS THEY ARE PROPOSING A BUFFER TO TRY TO, UH, UH, MINIMIZE SOME OF THAT NEXT TO IT, THE BUILDING MATERIALS, UM, THE OAKS HAS, LIKE I SAID, A CERTAIN LOOK TO IT.

THIS IS PART OF THE OAKS ITSELF.

UM, SO THE QUESTION IS, DO YOU, UH, DISTINGUISH THIS AS SEPARATE ENOUGH TO ALLOW FOR A DIFFERENT, UH, REQUIREMENT FOR MASONRY AND BUILDING SIZE? UH, SO IN YOUR PACKET, IN THE PROPOSED DECISION RECORD, THE PROPOSAL IS THAT THEY MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE ORIGINAL, UH, OAKS SUBDIVISION.

SO THOSE ARE CALLED OUT IN THEIR, UH, PLANNING COMMISSION.

THIS IS A RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL.

SO ANY OF THOSE ITEMS CAN BE REVISED.

AND I'LL GIVE YOU EXAMPLES OF THINGS THAT YOU COULD DO WITH THIS.

THE EXTERIOR LOTS COULD HAVE A CERTAIN RESTRICTION OF THE OAKS HAD THAT OVER NEXT TO SHOW YOU SHAY THE LOTS AT SHADY OAK, WHERE ALL OF THOSE LOTS HAD TO BE THE FULL BRICK WRAP TO MATCH WHAT WAS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE LOT LINE THERE.

SO THERE IS THAT OPPORTUNITY THAT IF YOU JUST WANT TO DO THE EXTERIOR, THERE ARE LANDSCAPING MOUNDS AT THE EXISTING, UM, ENTRANCE AT THE OAKS ON BELL FOUNTAIN, AND THEN IT'S STILL UNDER CONSTRUCTION, BUT IT'S APPROVED FOR THE LANDSCAPING MOUNDS AT FITCHBURG AS WELL AT THE, THE PART THAT'S UNDER CONSTRUCTION.

UH, THE, UM, RECOMMENDATION IS THAT THIS ALSO FOLLOWS THAT SAME PATTERN, UM, BECAUSE AS IT IS, THAT'S A FULL DEVELOPMENT ITSELF.

UH, SO THAT WOULD PUT LANDSCAPING MOUNDS AT THE, BECAUSE ALL THOSE LOTS THERE AT THE REAR, THEIR REAR FACES THE MAIN STREETS OF BELL FOUND IN FITCHBURG.

AND SO THAT WAS PART OF THAT ORIGINAL, UM, APPROVAL.

UM, SO ANY OF THESE THINGS CAN BE DISCUSSED AND MODIFIED, UM, AS WHICHEVER MAKES

[00:15:01]

SENSE.

AND THE APPLICANTS ARE HERE TO DISCUSS THIS AS WELL.

I'LL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS.

OKAY.

YOU MAY HAVE QUESTIONS FOR STAFF, ANYBODY GUYS I DO.

SO THE, UM, UH, THE REQUIREMENTS, AND THEN YOU'D PUT THOSE, THE, LIKE THE 50% MASONRY AND ALL THAT, THOSE MATCH, WHAT THE OAKS REQUIREMENTS ARE OR WHAT THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN IF IT WAS STILL UNDER THE ORIGINAL MASTER PLAN.

YEAH.

THAT IS THE REQUIREMENTS OF ALL OF THE OAKS.

THAT WAS THE ORIGINAL PLAN.

COOL, COOL.

AND THEN THE SETBACKS, BASICALLY, IF I REMEMBER THE OAKS, IS, IS IT A 10 FOOT SIDE YARD, 10 FOOT SIDE.

SO ALL THAT'S THE SAME THING.

OKAY.

SO, I MEAN, BASICALLY IT'S JUST FOLLOWING THE LAYOUT OF THE OAKS.

IT'S SAME, THE COMPARABLE LAYOUT.

NOW COULDN'T WORK BECAUSE THERE'S NOT A CONNECTION INTO THE REST OF THE OAKS.

UM, SO THAT'S BEEN REDESIGNED.

SO I MEAN LIKE THE SETBACKS AND LOT SIZES, WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING IS TO MATCH THE REST OF THE HOUSES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

YES.

EVEN THOUGH WE'RE NOT CONNECTED AS PART OF THE PLAN, CORRECT.

OH, THE PLANNING COMMISSION CAN RECOMMEND THAT THERE'S SEVERAL OPTIONS ON THE TABLE.

THERE'S A RECOMMEND APPROVAL AS SUBMITTED.

SO EVERYTHING EXACTLY, AS YOU SEE ON THE PLANS, THEY SUBMITTED A RECOMMEND APPROVAL BASED ON CONDITIONS THAT ARE IN THE DECISION RECORD THAT WERE RECOMMENDED BY STAFF OR SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN.

UM, SO, UM, YOU TECHNICALLY COULD RECOMMEND 40 FOOT LOTS.

UM, YEAH, IT, IT, YEAH, THE, THE, THE NAME DOESN'T REALLY MATTER IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS.

THIS WAS PART OF THE OAKS DEVELOPMENT.

THE OVERALL DEVELOPMENT WAS SPLIT OFF FOR A CHURCH, AND NOW IT'S BEING REQUESTED TO, UH, GO BACK TO RESIDENTIAL.

UM, YOU COULD HAVE A LOOKUP OF CARROTS, TRAILS, CARRIAGE TRAILS HAS ONE NAME, A LOT OF DIFFERENT SIZE, LOTS.

SO THE, THE NAMING, AND THEN EACH INDIVIDUAL SUBDIVISION, THEY HAVE SOME DIFFERENT THAN ARBORS, YOU KNOW, THEY'VE NAMED THINGS DIFFERENTLY WITHIN CARRIAGE TRAILS.

SO IT'S NOT UNCOMMON TO GO FROM LARGER HOUSE STYLE TO A SMALLER HOUSE STYLE.

THAT'S PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE THAT THE, UH, NAME CHANGE THAT IT'S STILL ZONED AS PART OF THE PLANNED RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT.

AND THE OVERALL DEVELOPMENT PLAN WAS THE OAKS OF HUBER HEIGHTS.

BUT THIS SECTION COULD BE CALLED SOMETHING ELSE .

WE CAN GET TO THEM IN A MINUTE OF THAT, BUT, UM, THEY ARE INDIVIDUAL LOTS, SO THEY COULD BE EITHER, UM, THE WAY IT'S SET UP.

SO JUST LIKE ANY OF THE HOUSES WITHIN THE OAKS NOW COULD BE A RENTAL, BUT YEAH, YES, THERE, THEIR INTENT IS FOR RENTALS, BUT AT ANY TIME THEY COULD SELL THOSE OFFICE, SINGLE FAMILY, INDIVIDUALLY OWNED PROPERTIES.

[00:20:14]

WELL, OUR MASONRY CODE, WHAT WE HAVE FOR MASONRY, IT GIVES SEVERAL OPTIONS, WHETHER IT'S BRICK STONE, HARDY PLANK.

SO THERE'S SEVERAL THINGS THAT FALL UNDER MASONRY UNDER WHAT OUR CODE SAYS IN THIS PLANNING COMMISSION PROCESS.

IF FOR SOME REASON, BRICK MADE SENSE THAT COULD BE A CONDITION, BUT THE OAK, THE REST OF THE OAKS DOESN'T HAVE THAT CONDITION THAT IT'S JUST MASONRY.

SO THERE'S, THERE'S SEVERAL OPTIONS FOR TH THERE WOULD BE A DIFFERENT ASSOCIATION, UM, THAT THAT WOULD BE DIFFERENT SET OF RULES ON THAT.

IF THEY HAVE ONE OWNER OF EVERYTHING, IT WILL BE FOR MAINTENANCE AND THAT KIND OF THING, THERE'S POSSIBILITY.

THAT'S JUST ONE ENTITY THAT'S HANDLING THAT.

SO THEM, IN THAT CASE, IT WOULD NOT BE PART OF THE OAKS HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION.

THEY WOULD NOT BE UNDER A HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION.

THEY WOULD STILL HAVE TO FOLLOW WHAT THE ZONING IS APPROVED FOR.

SO QUESTION ON THAT, I GUESS IT'S BECAUSE THE OAKS HAS AN HOA, CORRECT? YES.

SO, WHICH WOULD AGREE THAT RESTRICT STUFF LIKE FENCE SIZE MATERIALS SHEDS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

YES.

BUT THESE HOMES COULD LITERALLY BACK UP AGAINST THEM AND NOT HAVE ANY OF THOSE SAME RULES, THEN THAT IS CORRECT.

DO WE KNOW, I GUESS DOWN THE WEST EDGE, SO LOTS 29 TO 37, THE NORTH EDGE, WE'VE GOT A BUFFER WITH A MOUND AND LANDSCAPING ON THE WEST EDGE.

ARE WE LOOKING AT JUST A BUDDING UP TO THOSE OTHER PROPERTIES? IF YOU WERE TO APPROVE, WE'LL SAY THE PLAN AS IS STAFF WOULD RECOMMEND THAT A BUFFER BE PLACED ALONG THAT WESTERN LINE AS WELL.

I MEAN, I LIKED THE IDEA OF THE STAFF'S PROPOSAL HAS THE 85 FOOT WIDTH, LOTS AND ALL THAT.

SO, I MEAN, IF WE'RE DOING THAT, I THINK WE'RE A BUDDING UP AGAINST THEM AND MATCHING UP.

SO I DON'T KNOW THAT WE NEED THE MOUND, BUT IF WE'RE GOING TO CHANGE THAT, THEN I THINK THE MOUND IS A, SOME KIND OF A BARRIER OR A DIVIDER, I GUESS, WITH LANDSCAPING ALONG THE EDGE OF SOMETHING, I WOULD CERTAINLY PREFER, ESPECIALLY LOOKING AT THIS.

I THINK I READ IN THERE, THE MOUNTAIN PROPOSED WAS ONLY THREE AND A HALF FEET TALL, WHICH IS NOT MUCH WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT IT FROM A PRIVACY SCREEN.

SO LIKE, WE DEFINITELY NEED TO TALK ABOUT LANDSCAPING AND THINGS ACROSS THE TOP, WHICH I THINK THAT'S IN THE PLAN ANYWAY, SO WE CAN OPEN IT UP TO THE PUBLIC.

ANYBODY WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THE CASE.

I APOLOGIZE.

I WAS LATE.

SORRY.

WE'LL SWEAR YOU IN REAL QUICK.

SO DO YOU PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND AND SAY I DO TO THE FOLLOWING OATH.

DO YOU HEAR BY SWEAR OR AFFIRM ON THE THREAT OF PERJURY TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH SO HELP YOU GOD, I DO.

THANK YOU.

JUST, UH, SPELL YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD.

CHRISTOPHER KALER.

JEAN WOAH.

THANK YOU.

YEAH, SO, I MEAN, I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHAT WE SHOULD PRESENT HERE, BUT JUST YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE MOUND.

UM, YES, THAT, THAT HEIGHT WAS RIGHT, BUT WE WERE THINKING LIKE A FOUR OR FIVE FOOT TREE TIGHT.

SO IT WOULD BE, THAT'S WHAT OUR ENGINEER RECOMMENDED.

UM, AND, UH, WE DEFINITELY WANT TO HAVE A DIFFERENT NAME.

UH, WE WANTED TO CALL IT ORANGE RING.

COURTYARD WAS THE NAME WE CHOSE OR RAND JURY COURTYARD.

O R A N G E R I E COURTYARD.

OKAY, COOL.

UM, AS

[00:25:01]

FOR THE, THE SHED THING THAT THE HOA, I THINK WE WOULD CERTAINLY BE OKAY WITH THAT.

UM, WE DO INTEND TO KEEP THEM, AND I DON'T WANT TO BUY ANYBODY A SHED LIKE TENANTS WHO ASKED FOR THAT.

THAT'S PROBABLY GOING TO BE A HIGH MAINTENANCE TENANT, YOU KNOW, SO WE WE'D BE FINE WITH ADDING THAT.

WE JUST DIDN'T THINK ABOUT IT IN THE APPLICATION.

UM, I JUST KNOWING THE OAKS AND STUFF, I MEAN, IT GIVES, YOU CAN GET THOSE VINYL SHEDS THAT YOU CAN TOSS UP IN A YARD.

THAT'S A LOT LESS EXPENSIVE, WHICH THOSE OTHER HOMES THAT THE OAKS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE.

UM, AND WHEN WE'RE GOING TO BE A BUDDING UP RIGHT UP AGAINST THEIR YARDS WITH SOME KIND OF A BUFFER, WHETHER IT'S THE MOUNDS OR MATCHING THE RULES, I THINK IS SOMETHING WE NEED TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT AS WE ARE TOUCHING.

RIGHT.

BUT WE'D BE FINE WITH RESTRICTING THAT WE CANNOT PUT THOSE.

UM, YEAH.

YEAH.

WE DON'T WANT THAT.

AND NOW YOU MENTIONED THAT THE LOT SIZE, SO THE, IT MAY HAVE BEEN MENTIONED, BUT WE MADE SURE EVERYONE AROUND THE OUTSIDE WAS A 60 FOOT, WHICH GAVE US THE SAME SIDE DISTANCE ON EACH SIDE.

SO THAT WOULD AT LEAST MATCH.

UM, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT, THAT LARGE LOT TO THE SOUTH IS, BUT ACCOUNTING FOR THAT AND COUNTING IT AROUND.

IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT TOO MANY DIFFERENT.

I THINK IT'S ONLY ONE OR TWO DIFFERENT.

UM, COOL.

WHICH ONES ARE SO ONLY ONE OR TWO DIFFERENT THAN WHAT I DON'T KNOW ON THE BORDER WITH OUR LAND AND THE OAKS.

IF YOU COUNT THE NUMBER OF WATTS, I'M LIKE, OURS ARE ONLY 60 FEET, BUT THE TOTAL NUMBER ON THE BORDER OF LOTS IS I THINK IT'S ONE OR TWO DIFFERENT TOTAL, INCLUDING THE WEST AND THE NORTH SIDE.

SO YOU'RE PROPOSING 18 LOTS.

AND THEN WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THE EXISTING LOTS, THAT BORDER IT'S OR 18, IF THIS LINE WORKS CORRECT.

I DON'T HAVE THE, I DON'T KNOW.

I THINK IT WAS ACTUALLY ONE LESS, BUT 19 IS WHAT IT SHOWS THERE ON THAT, THOSE NARROWER, LOTS THAN IN THE OAKS.

NO, THEY'RE, THEY'RE 85 FEET.

IT'S JUST THERE'S UM, ON THE PROPOSED PLAN YOU DO HAVE WHERE THE BENDS ARE, THE REARS ARE LARGER BECAUSE OF, UH, THE, THE RADIAL LINES THAT COME OUT.

SO THAT'S WHERE SOME OF THE, UH, DISTANCES MAYBE NO, BUT ALL OF THE OTHER, LOTS OF YOLKS, THEY'RE 85 FOOT MINIMUM, BUT THE ONES ON THE DRAWING THAT WE HAVE IS THEY'RE 60 IT'S ALL RIGHT.

THE PROPOSED ONES.

YEAH.

YES.

AND THEN SINGLE FAMILY RENTALS IS THE PLAN, RIGHT? YEAH.

AND THEN SCOTT HAD MENTIONED IN THE OPEN SPACE, A PARK, IS IT JUST GREEN SPACE OR ARE WE LOOKING AT OTHER STUFF IN THERE? DOES IT MATTER? WE NEED TO ACCOUNT FOR ANYTHING.

IF IN THE OPEN AREAS WE THOUGHT MAYBE A LITTLE PAVILION OR MAYBE A SCREEN SPACE.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS REALLY PREFERRED.

I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANYTHING, IF WE HAVE TO EVEN WORRY ABOUT ANY OF THAT IN THIS STUFF.

THAT'S WHY I WAS JUST ASKING, OH, AT THE BASIC DEVELOPMENT PLAN STAGE, UM, THAT'S NOT AS IMPORTANT.

THAT'S, THAT'S A DETAIL THAT COULD COME AT THE DETAILED DEVELOPMENT PLAN STAGE.

UM, WHETHER ANYTHING DOES GO THERE OR NOT.

YOU MENTIONED THAT THERE WAS A COUPLE, THE MINIMUM WAS 55, BUT I THINK IT'S JUST LIKE IN THAT CENTER, THERE'S JUST A COUPLE WHERE WE HAD A SQUEEZE IT, UM, CORRECT.

BUT I THINK THE MAJORITY ARE 60 OR BETTER.

ARE YOU ON THE NUMBER OF HOMES THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BUILD IN THE AREA, THE 46 YOU'RE SET ON THAT NUMBER BECAUSE YOU, YOU KEEP SAYING YOU'RE SQUEEZING IT.

WE TALKED ABOUT 20 FOOT, THE YARDS BEING SMALLER IN THE FRONT.

ARE YOU? YEAH.

CAN I WALK OVER

[00:30:01]

THERE? I MEAN, IT WAS JUST REALLY A LOT HERE.

I MEAN, WE WOULDN'T BE FINE WITH MAYBE DROPPING ONE THING LEADS TO THAT, OR I REMEMBER RIGHT.

I THINK THE MAJORITY WOULD EITHER BE THE LOTS ONE THROUGH FOUR ON THE, UH, SOUTH SIDE OR ALSO I THINK 56.

AND W DO WE KNOW, OR HAVE WE LOOKED AT THEM IF IT WAS TO GO TO THE 85 FOOT, LOTS TO HIM, AT LEAST ON THE TOUCHING LOTS, WHAT THAT WOULD REDUCE THE LOT, COUNT TWO TO MATCH THE WINDOW, GIVE ME JUST A, THAT WOULD PROBABLY REDUCE BY FOUR OR FIVE.

AND THEN THE DEPTH IS AN ISSUE.

I MEAN, IF IT, FROM THE DEPTH OF THE LOT, DO WE HAVE ROOM TO GET A LARGE, A TALLER PRIVACY MOUND AND OR ARE WE CUTTING TOO FAR INTO THE YARDS AT THAT POINT TO HAVE A MOBILE SLOPE INSTEAD OF A CLIFF, IF WE WERE TO GO, THE EXTERIOR ONES ARE AROUND 130 TO 135 FOOT DOUBTS, BUT THEY'RE ALSO PROPOSING A 20 FOOT FRONT SETBACK.

UM, WHICH, LIKE I SAID, OUR, OUR STANDARD IS TYPICALLY 25.

SO IF YOU DID TAKE FIVE MORE OFF OF THAT, UM, IT, IT DEPENDS ON THE HOUSE.

THAT'S WHETHER THAT FITS OR NOT.

ARE YOU SAYING TAKE FIVE ADDITIONAL FROM THE FOUR WE JUST TALKED ABOUT OR FIVE TOTAL OFF THE HOUSE, FIVE FOOT OFF THE FRONT.

SO NOT, NOT IT WASN'T TALKING ABOUT THE LEFT.

SO, UM, IT DEPENDS ON THEIR, THE HOUSE STYLES, WHETHER THAT FITS OR NOT TO PUSH IT BACK FIVE MORE FEET, BUT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS THE 25 FOOT LOT, RIGHT.

OR TWENTY-FIVE FOOT FRONT .

SO IF IT'S A 70 FOOT DEPTH HOUSE AND YOU HAD 25 IN THE FRONT END, IF YOU DID THE 25 IN THE BACK, THEN THAT'S 120 FEET.

SO THERE'S STILL ANOTHER 10, 12, 15 FEET.

THERE JUST ISN'T ENOUGH TO DO MUCH OF A BERM.

AND YOU DON'T WANT THE BERM AT THE HOUSE STARTING AT THE HOUSE, OR WE CAN POTENTIALLY DO A FENCE TOO.

I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU GUYS FEEL ABOUT THAT.

WE JUST KIND OF WENT WITH THE MOUNTAIN TO HAVE THAT SHIRT ON.

I DON'T KNOW.

AND THAT THAT'S, THAT'S PRIVACY FENCES, UM, THAT SHOWS UP IN OUR CODE AS BUFFER ZONES.

SO THAT THAT'S AN OPTION.

I GUESS, IF WE DID EVER ENTERTAIN A 20 FOOT FRONT SETBACK, WOULD WE BE ABLE TO RESTRICT IT SO THAT THE GARAGES ARE ALL, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DESCRIBE IT, BUT I KNOW LIKE IN MY HOUSE THERE WAS A TWENTY-FIVE FOOT SETBACK WITH THE GARAGE COMES FORWARD.

AND IF THE GARAGE IS IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE, YOU CAN REALLY GET CLOSE TO THE SIDEWALK INSTEAD OF BEING LIKE, EVEN WITH THE FRONT DOOR, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.

WELL, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE AT THE SETBACK, THE GARAGE.

YES.

THAT WOULD BE THE BACK DESIGNED THE, THE, THE BACKYARD OR MORE LIKE A ON THE SIDE, THE BACKYARD COMMENT ON THE FIVE TOP DOWN

[00:35:01]

PLAN.

DIDN'T OH, I GUESS I DIDN'T.

THESE WERE THE ONLY DRAWINGS YOU SENT.

HEY, SO IN THE BACK OF THE HOUSE WHERE YOU CAN JUST ONE WINDOW, WHEN YOU REALLY DON'T HAVE EXACTLY THE BACKYARD IT'S MEANT TO BE THE SIDE.

YEAH.

THE, THE PORT IS ON THE SIDE.

YEAH.

MORE PRIVATELY THAT WAY.

YEAH.

SO THESE ARE DESIGNED TO BE MORE LIKE THE LIFESTYLE HOMES THAT ARE SMALLER YARDS, ALL ONE FLOOR TYPE OF DESIGN.

IT'S ALSO THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE, UH, 1,970 SQUARE FEET.

AND THEN THE GARAGE THAT'S THE LIVABLE AREA OF THE GARAGE IS LIKE 468 SQUARE FEET.

YEAH.

IF IT MATTERED, WE COULD EASILY GET IT OVER 2000.

IT JUST CAME OUT THAT WAY.

YEAH.

IT'S A NINE FOOT CEILING ON EVERY, EVERY ROOM.

IT'S A SEVEN, 12 TRUSTS.

WE WENT AROUND AND CHECKED THE RANCHES AND THE OAKS APPEAR TO EITHER BE A SEVEN, 12 OR SIX, 12 TRUST, AS FAR AS I CAN TELL.

YES.

WHEN WE BOUGHT IT.

I THINK WHEN THE, WHEN THEY BUY 22, YEAH, TWO TH TH THE TENANTS WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO PUT THEM UP.

AND I DON'T PLAN ON PUTTING THEM UP UNLESS IT WAS LIKE A PRIVACY FENCE.

THAT WAS PART OF THE PLAN.

BUT INDIVIDUAL HOUSES, NO, NO.

WAS PEPPER.

NOT BECAUSE IT'S HARDER FOR US, FOR MEN AND WOMEN TO MOW THE YARD IN THE PARK.

AND WE WANT THEM TO ALL LOOK MODE AT THE SAME TIME.

HI.

YES.

WE'LL TAKE CARE OF THEM ALL THE WAY.

YEAH.

THEY'RE SHIT.

THEY'RE JUST TO HAVE A HARDER TIME.

I MAY ASK YOU A QUESTION.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO OWN ALL OF THESE ARE THESE LOT LINES MORE JUST SHOWING WHERE THE HOUSES ARE TO GO, OR DO YOU WANT TO PLAT PLOT LINES? IF YOU'RE GOING TO OWN EVERYTHING, THEN YOU COULD JUST HAVE THE PLAN WHERE WE JUST WANT TO BUILD THIS NUMBER OF BUILDINGS, LIKE AN APARTMENT COMPLEX, WHERE EACH INDIVIDUAL LOT LINE DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING IF YOU'RE MAINTAINING EVERYTHING.

UM, AND IF THERE'S NO INTENT FOR OWNERSHIP OF INDIVIDUAL LOTS, I GUESS, IS THAT THE INTENT? SO THAT, IS THERE A REASON TO EVEN HAVE A LOT? PROBABLY NOT.

I MEAN, I THOUGHT WE HAD TO MOVE THIS FORWARD, BUT YEAH.

BUT THE WAY I UNDERSTOOD IT WAS THAT PEOPLE WOULD INDIVIDUALLY OWN THESE.

SO THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE.

I APOLOGIZE.

I WAS NOT AT THAT LAST MEETING, SO I DIDN'T HEAR ALL THE WHOLE DISCUSSION.

UM, BUT SO IT'S KIND OF BLURRING THAT LONG ENOUGH.

IT'S AN IMAGINARY LINE.

AND IF THERE'S NO INTENT OF ANYBODY OWNING AN INDIVIDUAL A LOT, THEN THOSE SETBACKS KIND OF LIKE THE REAR ONES ON THE INTERIOR DON'T MEAN ANYTHING.

UM, BECAUSE IT'S ALL COMMON SPACE.

SO IT'S NOT, YOU ARE IN LOT NUMBER 24, IT'S YOUR IN YOUR HOUSE AND THEN YOU'RE SHARING YOUR YARD.

UM, SO THAT'S A WAY TO LOOK AT IT, BASICALLY LIKE A CONDO OR APARTMENT COMPLEX, BUT ALL SINGLE FAMILY SPLIT UNITS INSTEAD OF ATTACHED DETACHED CONDO STYLE.

YEAH.

YEAH.

SO

[00:40:02]

YOU, IF THE LOT LINES GET TAKEN OUT, THEN IT WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH A LOT SPLIT TO TRY TO SPLIT OFF AN INDIVIDUAL THAT THAT'S, THAT'S OUR INTENT.

I'M KIND OF WONDERING ABOUT LIKE THE, GETTING A MORTGAGE AND IF THAT WOULD HAVE ANY IMPLICATIONS, BUT THAT IS OUR PATH.

WE DON'T PLAN ON SELLING THIS OR THAT, OR IN PHASES.

I FEEL THAT LIKE WORTHWHILE, MAYBE LIKE A TWO OR FIVE DEPEND ON OUR FINANCE, MORE, DEPENDING ON HOW BAD WE'D LIKE TO DO, LIKE PHASES, WHERE HE COULD BUILD A TALK AND THEN WE CAN REFINANCE ON A BUILD THE NEXT CHUNK.

AND THAT WOULD BE THE AGREEMENT BETWEEN YOU AND THE TENANTS.

OH.

INSTEAD OF US, RIGHT.

I'M SORRY.

ARE YOU BUILDING THESE HOMES OR ARE YOU WORKING WITH A BUILDER? YOU MENTIONED BUILDING FIVE AND THEN REFINANCING AND THEN TRYING TO BUILD MORE.

SO IS THIS SOMETHING YOU'RE BUILDING, ARE YOU HAVING A CO ARE YOU WORKING WITH A BUILDER? W W WE'RE KIND OF BLURRING THE LINES A LITTLE BIT.

W WE'RE PRACTICALLY CONTRACTORS AT THIS POINT FROM OUR PREVIOUS PROJECT, BUT WE WOULD, WE WOULD HIRE PEOPLE TOO, BUT I DON'T THINK WE WOULD HAVE ANYONE MANAGING EVERYTHING THAT WOULD BE US HIRING THEM.

SO YOU'RE JUST GOING TO SUBCONTRACT OUT THE, YOU KNOW, THE PROCESSES OF BUILDING THE HOME.

YES.

OKAY.

NOT 10 YEARS, 10 YEARS.

HOPEFULLY IT'S THREE YEARS, HOPEFULLY.

YEAH.

W THAT WAS KIND OF OUR, OUR GOAL AT THE BEGINNING.

WE WEREN'T SURE HOW LONG ALL THE APPROVALS WOULD TAKE, BUT YOU KNOW, ABOUT THREE .

UM, SO I, I WOULD ANTICIPATE WE WOULD GRADE UPFRONT AND SEED AND PUT INFRASTRUCTURE, UM, AND YEAH, LIKE GET THE MAIN LINE RUN UM, WE WOULD DEFINITELY DO ALL THE GRADING, LIKE WHATEVER THE ENGINEER REPRIMANDS FOR TOPOGRAPHY AND THE MOUND AND ALL THAT, AND DO THAT IN ONE SHOT AND, UM, POSSIBLY PHASES ON THE WATERLINE, BUT NOT, NOT HUGE NUMBER OF PHASES.

YEAH.

SO UNDERGROUND, NORMALLY TO BE DONE FOR WATER LINES, TO WORK AT WATERLINE FOR ELECTRIC GAS.

SO IT WILL BE DONE AT THE ONE TIME, OR AT LEAST A REALLY BIG CHUNK.

YEAH.

THEN RO TO BE GONE FOR A BIG CHUNK, THEN AFTER THAT GO TO UP THE VERTICAL WAY GOING UP.

SO IT MIGHT BE LIKE A TWO OR FIVE HOUSES AT ONE TIME, DEPENDING ON THE BANK.

YEAH.

SO WHAT IS YOUR TIMELINE FROM START TO FINISH FROM THE ELECTRIC, THE WATER LINES TO THE ROADS, TO THE UPRIGHT STRUCTURES TO FINISH? WHAT'S YOUR TIMELINE? SO I THINK WATER SEWER, ELECTRIC APP, WE THINK IS GOOD ONE.

YEAH.

IF WE GET APPROVED ON OUR HALF A YEAR, UM, FOR THE WHOLE THING, IT WOULD BE, UH, ABOUT THREE YEARS WOULD BE THE TIMELINE.

UM, THE PREVIOUS PROJECT WE DID WAS PROBABLY ABOUT HALF AS MUCH IN TERMS OF INFRASTRUCTURE.

AND WE GOT ALL THE INFRASTRUCTURE IN AND THEN ABOUT THREE TO FOUR MONTHS.

YEAH.

SO YOU'VE DONE THIS PRIOR, SO YOU

[00:45:01]

HAVE OTHER FACILITIES LIKE THIS, THEY'RE NOT HOUSES LIKE THIS, BUT WE'VE DONE THE INFRASTRUCTURE BEFORE WE DID IT AT THE BISON PENNY BARN.

AND MAYBE THIS, AND I APOLOGIZE IF THIS IS OUT OF THE REALM OF QUESTIONS THAT I SHOULD BE ASKING, BUT WHAT'S THE WHAT'S TO SAY.

AND MAYBE THIS IS WHAT WE'VE PUT IN THE PLANS THAT YOU START, THIS FINANCING DOESN'T COME THROUGH, YOU'VE GOT FIVE PROPERTIES BUILT AND IT SITS THERE WHAT'S TO STOP THAT FROM HAPPENING.

SO I'LL BUILD, I HAVE MOVING, WE'RE GONNA RUN IT OUT.

WE'RE GONNA HAVE REFINED IT.

TH TH TH THE LAST ONES, AREN'T THE CHALLENGE.

IT'S REALLY, THE FIRST FEW ARE GOING TO BE A LITTLE CHALLENGE, BUT WE HAVE, WE'VE TALKED TO THE BANK ALREADY, SO YEAH.

BUT THEY HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH BLOCKS.

I MEAN, TO BUILD, AND I GUESS IT'S THE SAME WITH ANY DEVELOPMENT WOULD HAVE THAT JUST BECAUSE WE'RE, WE'RE, I MEAN, WE'RE NOT A BUILDER BY TRADE, BUT WE HAVE THE SAME SKILL SET AT THIS POINT.

WE GOT THE FIRST ONE BUILT, THEN WE CAN HAVE REFINANCE INCOME AFTER HALF A YEAR.

WE FIND THAT NO, THAT WAS ARTISAN WALK.

THAT THAT WAS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT PROJECT.

SO WE COULD CERTAINLY LIKE HAVE A CONTINGENCY THAT WE DO THE TOPOGRAPHY AND SEED IT UPFRONT.

SO IT'S NOT JUST SITTING AS LIKE THE, RIGHT NOW IT'S A FIELD THAT'S BEEN MOWED ONCE A YEAR.

SO WE COULD CERTAINLY DO BETTER THAN THAT.

UM, LIKE IT'S, IT'S CUT SOYBEANS RIGHT NOW.

SO THERE'S QUITE A BIT OF HONEY SUPPLE ON THE PROPERTY, SO WE CAN GET RID OF ALL THAT.

WE CAN PUT THAT IN THERE.

AND YOU CURRENTLY OWN THAT PROPERTY.

YES.

YEAH.

IF THEY DO IT ON THEIR SAY A COMPLEX VERSUS SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, DOES THAT CHANGE A LOT OF THE THINGS WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT IN HERE? IT DOES.

AND I'M GOING TO THROW ANOTHER OPTION OUT HERE BECAUSE I WOULD ASSUME IT'S GOING TO CHANGE THE DISCUSSION AT THE LENDER AS WELL.

YEAH.

YEAH.

SO, UM, WITH SOME OF THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOW DOES THIS LAY OUT? HOW DID THE HOUSES LAY OUT? UM, YOU COULD REQUEST TO TABLE IT, COME BACK WITH A PLAN THAT SHOWS THE HOUSES ON THEM.

SOME MORE, UM, IDEAS OF, CAN YOU MOVE THINGS IN, CAN YOU GET THAT EXTERIOR, WE'LL SAY LESS DENSE THAT'S UP AGAINST, UH, THE EXISTING, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.

AND ALSO, UM, IT'S IN THE TOUGH TIMES WE ARE RIGHT NOW, UM, THE, THE NEIGHBORS, THEIR VOICE IS JUST BY AN EMAIL BASED ON WHAT THEY SEE ON A PIECE OF PAPER.

RIGHT? SO THERE'S A DISCUSSION HERE THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, TO GIVE THEM, UH, MAKE SURE WE HEAR EVERYBODY AS WELL.

UM, THAT'S SOMETHING, BUT JUST SINCE YOU KNOW, THE BUILDINGS THEMSELVES, YOU SAID IT'S ALMOST 2000 SQUARE FEET, SO THE SIZE IS FINE.

I DON'T WANT A BIG DEAL BETWEEN 2019 50.

YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT'S THE, I THINK WE'RE, WE'RE CLOSE ENOUGH THERE AND CAN WORK OUT, MAKE SOME ROOM MATERIALS AND FIGURE THOSE KINDS OF THINGS OUT.

IT'S THE DEPTH THAT THE DISTANCE TO THE PROPERTY LINES, WHAT KIND OF, UM, BUFFERING THERE IS.

I KNOW, UM, IT WAS, UH, MS. OP ASKED ABOUT WHAT THOSE WE'LL CALL IT, THE FRONTAGE ON BELL FOUNTAIN IN FITCHBURG.

HOW DOES THAT LOOK? THAT WAS PART OF THE RECOMMENDATION THAT THERE IS MOUNTING THERE BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE REST OF THE OAKS DOES THERE.

UM, SO THOSE KINDS OF THINGS TO WORK OUT, TO BE ABLE TO SEE IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE OR GET DOWN INTO IT AND PUT WHATEVER CONDITIONS RIGHT NOW, CROSS OFF OLD ONES AND START ADDING NEW ONES.

YEAH.

I DO THINK, I MEAN, JUST IN PROTECTION OF THE OAKS, I MEAN, WE HAVE TO FOLLOW THE DESIGN STANDARDS A LITTLE BIT, AT LEAST FOR THE MOST PART, NOT EVEN JUST A LITTLE BIT, BUT I COULD SEE THE 85 FOOT WITH LOTS OF BEING SOMETHING I COULD LOOK A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY ON GIVEN THE LAYOUT.

I MEAN, IT SOUNDS LIKE BECAUSE IT WASN'T ARTISTS AND WALK DESIGN WITH A NARROWER HOUSE ON AN EDGE OF A YARD WITH A SIDE YARD AS THE PRIMARY, INSTEAD OF A BACKYARD YES.

ON THE ORIGINAL CALIFORNIA STYLE WITH ALLEYS THAT YOU ACTUALLY, ALL THE GARAGES WERE AT THE REAR WAS THE ORIGINAL DESIGN.

YEAH.

UM, THEN THE MARKET CRASH,

[00:50:01]

RIGHT.

AND THEN RYAN HOLMES TOOK IT OVER AND REVISE TO THE FRONT.

SO THIS ONE SOUNDS LIKE IT'S DESIGNED TO WHEREVER THE, KIND OF THE BACKSIDE QUARTER OF A YARD AND THEN A SKINNIER LONGER BACKYARD INSTEAD OF A DEEP BACKYARD.

SO A LITTLE BIT OF A YARD, BUT NOT A BUNCH SOUND.

ALL RIGHT.

COOL.

ALL RIGHT.

YOU'RE SAYING, PUT THE, SORRY.

UH, YOU MEAN PUT THE HOUSE TO IT TO ONE SIDE AND I WAS JUST GETTING CLARIFICATION FOR ME FROM WHAT YOU WERE DESCRIBING AS SIMILAR, YOU SAID THAT THE PRIMARY YARD IS NOT A BACKYARD.

IT'S MORE OF THAT KIND OF OFFSET PATIO.

SO FOR ME TO MAKE SURE I'M VISUALIZING IT, I THINK THAT'S HOW ARTISTS AND WALK WAS KIND OF DESIGNED ORIGINALLY.

SO WHERE THE YARD IS NOT NECESSARILY THE BACKYARD THAT WE'RE ALL ACCUSTOMED TO.

IT'S MORE OF THAT SIDE YARD WITH A PIECE IN THE BACK KIND OF THING IS WHAT JUST FOR CLARIFICATION , UM, HE FINE BLACK, POP'S PROBABLY A GOOD OPTION.

I DON'T THINK GRASS IS A GOOD OPTION BECAUSE IT WOULD GET WORN OUT.

SO MAYBE BLACKTOP OR CONCRETE.

YEAH.

SOMETHING JUST LIKE AN EXTENSION OF THE SIDEWALK.

UH, THERE WOULD BE TO BE IMPROVEMENTS AT THE, UH, INTERSECTIONS.

UM, THAT'S IN THERE ABOUT, UH, ACCELERATION AND DECELERATION LANES, LIKE AT THE OTHER TWO ENTRANCE TO THE OAKS.

THAT'S WHAT THE RECOMMENDATION WAS.

NO.

UM, WE HAD THIS DISCUSSION WITH THE CITY ENGINEER BACK WHEN THE, UH, SECTION NINE CAME THROUGH AND THAT'S NOT ON THE PLANS FOR ANY KIND OF, UH, MAJOR IMPROVEMENTS.

YEAH.

I MEAN THAT THAT'S, UM, IN THE LONG-TERM YES, THERE WILL BE SIDEWALKS ALONG FITCHBURG AND BELTLINE.

WELL, I MEAN, IT COULD BE PART OF DEVELOPER RESPONSIBILITY THAT THAT'S, THAT IS A STANDARD THAT, UH, DEVELOPMENTS DO REQUIRE THE IMPROVEMENTS TO THE MAIN STREETS.

WELL, THEY ARE CALLING OUT FOR THAT, THE LINE WORK THAT THEY HAVE SHOWN THEIR MEETS THE FUTURE WITH.

SO, UM, THAT WORKS THERE, THAT THAT WOULDN'T AFFECT THOSE BACKYARDS.

SORRY, I APOLOGIZE.

I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION.

UM, SO YOU TALK ABOUT THE OPEN SPACE HERE AND HOW YOU'RE GOING TO DO IT.

SO YOU RENT THESE, IF YOU'RE GOING TO USE IT IN AN APARTMENT STYLE WHERE YOU HAVE NO LOT LINES, SO THERE'S NO, SO SAY I RENT YOUR FACILITY, BUT I HAVE CHILDREN ON EITHER SIDE OF ME, WHERE ARE THOSE CHILDREN GOING TO PLAY? IF I DON'T WANT THEM IN MY YARD, EVEN THOUGH I DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO SAY, I MEAN, WHEN YOU DESIGN THE OPEN SPACE, MAYBE FOR AN AREA FOR CHILDREN TO GO AND PLAY AND HAVE, YOU KNOW, INSTEAD OF BEING UP IN SOMEBODY'S, YOU KNOW, KIND OF RIGHT THERE, I GUESS, IS WHAT I'M SAYING.

I THINK THEY WOULD HAVE THAT RIGHT TO SAY, LIKE, DON'T COME OVER HERE.

THIS IS MY RENTAL.

EVEN THOUGH WE TALK ABOUT THE LINES COULD BE KIND OF BLURRED, BUT THAT WE CERTAINLY WOULDN'T APPROVE OF THAT AS LANDLORDS.

I THINK WE'RE, WE ARE TARGETING AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO LIKE REJECT ANY QUALIFIED TENANT, BUT WE'RE KIND OF TARGETING BABY BOOMER TYPE PEOPLE LIKE A TRANSITION OUT OF A BIGGER HOUSE.

UM, AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE MOVING BECAUSE THEY WANT NO MORE SHARED HVAC.

UM, BUT

[00:55:01]

YEAH, BUT AGAIN, YOU MAY ONLY, YOU MAY GET APPLICANTS THAT HAVE, YOU KNOW, CHILDREN WHO NEED TO GO AND RUN OFF SOME ENERGY.

AND WHERE IS THAT GOING TO HAPPEN WITHOUT KIND OF ENCROACHING ON SOMEBODY ELSE'S, YOU KNOW, SPACE IS THAT THE GREEN SPACE.

I MEAN, WE, WE, AND IF WE MAKE IT CONCRETE, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.

I GUESS IF WE MAKE IT ALL LIKE BLACKTOP AND STUFF, WILL YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHERE DO THE KIDS HAVE TO, OKAY.

AND THEN I'D IMAGINE IN THE RENTAL CONTRACT, IT WOULD BE THE, THEY WOULD ESTABLISH THEIR LOT LINES INSTEAD OF US THEN.

RIGHT.

WOULD BE MY GUESS.

COOL.

ALRIGHT.

ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS? ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU.

WE'LL CLOSE THE DISCUSSION AND THEN WE'LL DISCUSS.

SO ANY, ANY OTHER THOUGHTS THERE SEATS FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT WANT TO MOVE TO FLORIDA AND HAVE A HOUSE TAKEN CARE OF? UM, SO NOW MY THOUGHTS ARE TO TABLE.

I THINK YOU SAID TABLE TWO.

SO THIS IS WHERE WE'VE TALKED ABOUT TABLE AND, AND HAVE THEM GET WITH YOU ABOUT THE DIFFERENT LOT WIDTHS, REEVALUATE THE LAYOUT WITH YOU, AND THEN BRING IT BACK UNDER AND YOU GUYS HAVE TO DISCUSS OBVIOUSLY A SINGLE FAMILY VERSUS DESIGN.

I THINK THERE'S JUST SO MANY WHAT IFS AND NOT ENOUGH EXACTS OR WE'RE KIND OF ALL OVER THE PLACE.

SO FOR ME, YEAH, ANY MORE LAID OUT PLANS.

SO I MEAN, SOME OF THESE THINGS WE COULD CERTAINLY SOLIDIFY, MAYBE NOT ALL, BUT THERE'S A LOT LIONS, I WOULD SAY, JUST LEAVE IT AS IS AND SPLIT IT, IT, IT, IT MAKES NO REAL FUNCTIONAL DIFFERENCE.

SO EITHER WAY IT WOULD BE FINE.

SO I WOULD SAY TO SPLIT IT, IT'S PROBABLY A MORE STRAIGHTFORWARD PATH WITH A BANK.

SO I WOULD WANT, I WOULD PREFER TO JUST KEEP THAT AS IS.

UM, AND WE, WE WOULD BE, YOU MENTIONED ABOUT THE NUMBER 46 LOTS.

WE WOULDN'T WANT TO GO BELOW 45.

UM, I'D BE CONCERNED ABOUT LIKE THE SIZE OF OUR HOUSE.

IT IS A LONGER SKINNIER HOUSE.

IF WE GO TO 85 FEET, IT'S GOING TO LOOK EVEN WIDER THAN THE OAKS IN BETWEEN HOUSES.

AND WE REALLY DON'T WANT THAT.

BUT SO DO WE, I THINK VOTE ON WHAT WE, I DON'T KNOW HOW THIS WORKS YEAH.

MEAN, YEAH, I AGREE.

I MEAN, THE SIDEWALKS ON FITCHBURG IS THERE IS A BASKETBALL COURT IN THE PARK ACROSS, ACROSS THE STREET THERE, RIGHT.

AT COTTONWOOD.

SO IF PEOPLE ARE COMING OUT OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, INSTEAD OF DARTING ACROSS FITCHBURG, THEY CAN AT LEAST HAVE, YOU KNOW, A WALKWAY UP TO THE CORNER.

BUT, AND I ORIGINALLY THOUGHT THAT THE 85 FOOT WITH LOTS OF SOMETHING WE WOULD NEED BASED ON BEING ADJACENT TO THE OAKS, BUT THIS STYLE HOME, I MEAN, IT'S WHAT I'M PICTURING IS HAVE SEEN SOME SIMILAR.

IT IS WHAT HE'S DESCRIBING.

IT'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE YOU'VE GOT A ROW AND THEN A ROW OF GREENERY BETWEEN IT BASICALLY THE ENTIRE WIDTH.

IF WE GO 85, DO YOU KNOW HOW WIDE THE HOUSE IS? AND HE'S AT 70 FOOT, 41 40 WIDE DENSITY.

YEAH.

SO, I MEAN, I WOULD, I WOULD MAKE IT AN EMOTION.

I DON'T KNOW IF I'D EVER, HE DOES WITH THEM TO TABLE IT AND HAVE SCOTT LOOK AT THE LAYOUTS OF, IF WE GET INTO THE SIZE, LOTS OF YOUR VERSUS WHAT'S IT TAKE TO PUT THAT BUFFER BETWEEN THESE CARS.

IT IS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT STYLE OF HOME VERSUS THE

[01:00:01]

OAKS.

SO IF WE'RE GOING TO BUTT UP AGAINST THOSE HOMES RIGHT THERE ON THE WEST AND THE NORTH, HOW DO WE PROPERLY BUFFER THAT WITH WHETHER IT'S MOUNDING AND VEGETATION AND TREES.

AND OBVIOUSLY THE TREES ARE GONNA LOOK BETTER 10 YEARS FROM NOW THAN THEY DO TODAY.

SO THERE'LL BE SOME PATIENTS THERE I PERSONALLY WOULD PREFER TO SEE A COUPLE OF EVERGREENS MIXED IN THAT GIVES YOU THAT SCREEN YEAR ROUND, INSTEAD OF JUST WHEN IT'S NICE AND FULL.

IF I WERE LIVING IN THOSE HOMES BEHIND YOU, THAT WOULD BE ME.

UM, BUT I THINK WHAT DO WE DO WITH TABLE AND GET THEM IS THAT WE GO THROUGH AND LAY OUT ALL THE DETAILS.

IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE SCOTT HAVE TO WORK ON IT STILL, I'M SORRY.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LOOKING AT SOME OF THE PARTS THAT WE WOULD AGREE TO, BUT THEN NEEDING TO COME BACK TO YOU SO WE CAN LOOK AT THE LAYOUT AGAIN.

SO DO WE, DO WE HAVE EVERYTHING THAT YOU THINK YOU HAVE, EVERYTHING YOU NEED AS FAR AS WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR, THAT GUY GOT A GRASP OF WHAT EVERYBODY'S LOOKING FOR HERE.

SO, UM, WE CAN GET TOGETHER AND TALK AND WORK OUT A PLAN.

SOUNDS GOOD.

TABLE TABLE FOR THE NEXT MEETING.

YES.

OKAY.

SO DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO TABLE TO THE NEXT MEETING? STOP.

WAIT A SECOND.

A SECOND.

MS. THOMAS TOLD HER OLD NEXT MEETING.

OKAY.

OH YEAH.

IT WAS A LOT OF THE MAJORITY OF IT'S VINYL.

THE FRONT, THE SIDES BACK ARE VINYL.

THE FRONT IS A MIX OF THE MASONRY, THE CEDAR SHAKES.

UM, I MEAN, WE COULD MAKE THE FRONT LIKE PARTY OR SOMETHING, BUT RIGHT NOW IT'S FINAL.

SORRY.

SO THAT ALSO THE, THE OAKS STANDARDS, LIKE WE TRIED TO LOOK AT THAT AND THERE'S, I GUESS IT ALL FALLS ON A MASONRY, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF VARIATION TO THE POINT WHERE I JUST COULDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THE STANDARD WAS.

YEAH, YEAH.

IT'S A MASONRY BRICK STONE, NATURAL MATERIAL.

YEAH.

HARDY PLANK THAT LOOKS LIKE SIDING.

THAT'S A FIBER CEMENT BOARD.

THAT'S A MASONRY PRODUCT.

YEAH.

BUT WHAT, BUT TO JAN'S POINT ABOUT THE VINYL, THIS IS THE LEVEL OF COVERAGE AND VINYL HERE IS SAME SKYDIVE THAT WE'VE PROPOSED ANYWAYS, SAME GUIDELINES AS THE OAKS, OR ARE WE TALKING ABOUT JUST THE FACE? COOL.

WHAT I HAD PROPOSED IN THE PROPOSED DECISION RECORD WAS TO MATCH THOSE REQUIREMENTS VOX.

THAT DEPENDS PART OF IT DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU'RE AT, WHETHER YOU'RE ON THAT EXTERIOR ROW OR INTERIOR, ABOUT HOW MUCH MASON.

RIGHT.

AND I DO THINK WE NEED TO KEEP THE FEEL OF, I MEAN, IT IS STILL PART OF THE OAKS MASTER PLAN OVERALL AT THIS POINT WHERE I'M CALM KIND OF RIGHT.

MY OPINION IS YES, YES, YES.

I AGREE.

COOL.

ALL RIGHT.

SO